Yeah, we should all be okay with no competition for 1070 and above for more than one year. Hooray AMD, good job! Maybe don't do it again next year. How can you honestly be ok with half the market (lineup-wise) having no competition?

You don't expect an honest and meaningful answer to that, do you? Even thought the answer will certainly not be an easy one, but one with many facettes.

Well, you are right in one thing. I did not expect answer to that post of mine. I expected people to think before they expulse their guts. But let's pretend for a moment that I take those 2 above as separate posts which are not totally incoherent once connected to that post of mine which xIcarus quoted, and you followed. I am not fine with AMD not having something stronger than Fiji for quite some time. But it does not affect me in other way than having usually meaningful forum filled by repetitive posts resembling spam. Why I am not mad about it? Because I stated very long time ago that my next one is Navi. That was in time before Polaris butted into AMD's roadmap. Now, let's connect posts back to reality. There is hypocrisy of highest level. Where? Right in that post xIcarus made. What kind of twisted logic is needed to consider 'AMD's absence in high end market' as justification for sh*tposting in thread about AMD's high end HW release. If you are so mad about AMD's absence in that performance segment, you should be rejoiced that AMD puts anything at all there. But why would you be mad about AMD's absence? nVidia's prices are just fine. Look around, people are buying those GTX 1080Ti-s. Supply and Demand do their thing. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = So Guys, you got your answers, both of you. And since you had that strong urge to reply to that post of mine:

Looks like our community is back on track. Almost everyone is: "I do not mean sh*tpost AMD, but here I do because it is AMD."

Please do it now with something coherent.

Well, you are right in one thing. I did not expect answer to that post of mine. I expected people to think before they expulse their guts. But let's pretend for a moment that I take those 2 above as separate posts which are not totally incoherent once connected to that post of mine which xIcarus quoted, and you followed. I am not fine with AMD not having something stronger than Fiji for quite some time. But it does not affect me in other way than having usually meaningful forum filled by repetitive posts resembling spam. Why I am not mad about it? Because I stated very long time ago that my next one is Navi. That was in time before Polaris butted into AMD's roadmap. Now, let's connect posts back to reality. There is hypocrisy of highest level. Where? Right in that post xIcarus made. What kind of twisted logic is needed to consider 'AMD's absence in high end market' as justification for sh*tposting in thread about AMD's high end HW release. If you are so mad about AMD's absence in that performance segment, you should be rejoiced that AMD puts anything at all there. But why would you be mad about AMD's absence? nVidia's prices are just fine. Look around, people are buying those GTX 1080Ti-s. Supply and Demand do their thing. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = So Guys, you got your answers, both of you. And since you had that strong urge to reply to that post of mine: Please do it now with something coherent.

And there we have it again: my point being, it's a way to emotional discussion. Talking about coherency, we still don't know why Vega takes so long to arrive, what it will be able to do, what prices it will have, and how availability will be at launch. I apologize if you felt personally attacked by me saying that he can't expect an honest and meaningful answer, since people have different views on it which to each and everyone, because of being emotionally challanged, will probably never line up properly. And people do seek different things... I personally pay premium to get the best performance at an earlier point of time, other people would still think I'm stupid to do that. Then again, I don't blame them for not having / wanting to spend my budget on their hobby. It's just that this forum, in general, has declined to being biased so hard... you can't even say anything against AMD with not having people on your back as if you were actually trying to take away voting rights from women. And people do frequently disturb Nvidia threads too, don't worry Fox, but they are usually not warned / suspended / banned, no coherency in their posts either. It's just that you have to be especially careful and wear white gloves when posting anything that has to do with AMD if you don't have the right CPU / GPU in your specs list to the left of the post.

I am not fine with AMD not having something stronger than Fiji for quite some time. But it does not affect me in other way than having usually meaningful forum filled by repetitive posts resembling spam. Why I am not mad about it? Because I stated very long time ago that my next one is Navi. That was in time before Polaris butted into AMD's roadmap.

:3eyes: That's the whole point..? You should be bothered by it because if Vega is delayed, so is Navi. Or do you really lack the foresight to see such a basic thing?

Now, let's connect posts back to reality. There is hypocrisy of highest level. Where? Right in that post xIcarus made. What kind of twisted logic is needed to consider 'AMD's absence in high end market' as justification for sh*tposting in thread about AMD's high end HW release. If you are so mad about AMD's absence in that performance segment, you should be rejoiced that AMD puts anything at all there. But why would you be mad about AMD's absence? nVidia's prices are just fine. Look around, people are buying those GTX 1080Ti-s. Supply and Demand do their thing. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = So Guys, you got your answers, both of you. And since you had that strong urge to reply to that post of mine: Please do it now with something coherent.

So anything negative about AMD is sh!tposting now. Interesting. Yet at the same time, you speak about hypocrisy. That's one of the most ironic things I've read lately. Let me tell you something. When AMD done ****ed up, like with the 290x retaining its stupidly high price after the 970 was competing with it I'll bash them. When Intel done ****ed up, like with the LOLEX299 platform I'll bash them (haha damn Intel deserves some monumental dildos for that one). When Nvidia done ****ed up, like when they lied about the 970 I'll bash them. I don't discriminate, in fact few regulars on this forum discriminate. Unfortunately however, you are one of those regulars who discriminate and it's costing you credibility. You should perhaps stop assuming that everyone who's saying something negative about AMD is automatically an Intel/Nvidia shill. You're not on /r/AyyMD, you're on Guru3D - a pretty impartial enthusiast community.

From our perspective. The other side is the miners have been buying up the RX 480/580 and 470/570 stock in bulk. Those products have done really well for AMD, providing some much needed capital for them.

Sure, and it indeed helped AMD. But what actually bothers me is why they didn't try scaling Polaris to 1070 levels, it looks like they could do it without that big a power consumption. They haven't been concerned about power consumption anyway, see last gen's 390 vs 970 for example. I don't think people would have cared if they did something similar this gen. Nobody cared in the 390 vs 970. Nobody would care now.

I'm not trying to be a dick about it just being real. I waited for Vega at least I tried. I bought my 1080ti after the first benches of FE came in. I just didn't see 30% improvements across the board happening in 6 months.

Understandable. My 980ti is kind of enough still for everything 1440p so I am not in a hurry. Going to buy whatever gets me best price/perf in winter. Tho currently it looks like at 1440p/4k at least FE does not perform any better then overclocked 980 ti.

:3eyes: That's the whole point..? You should be bothered by it because if Vega is delayed, so is Navi. Or do you really lack the foresight to see such a basic thing? So anything negative about AMD is sh!tposting now. Interesting. Yet at the same time, you speak about hypocrisy. That's one of the most ironic things I've read lately. Let me tell you something. When AMD done ****ed up, like with the 290x retaining its stupidly high price after the 970 was competing with it I'll bash them. When Intel done ****ed up, like with the LOLEX299 platform I'll bash them (haha damn Intel deserves some monumental dildos for that one). When Nvidia done ****ed up, like when they lied about the 970 I'll bash them. I don't discriminate, in fact few regulars on this forum discriminate. Unfortunately however, you are one of those regulars who discriminate and it's costing you credibility. You should perhaps stop assuming that everyone who's saying something negative about AMD is automatically an Intel/Nvidia shill. You're not on /r/AyyMD, you're on Guru3D - a pretty impartial enthusiast community. Sure, and it indeed helped AMD. But what actually bothers me is why they didn't try scaling Polaris to 1070 levels, it looks like they could do it without that big a power consumption. They haven't been concerned about power consumption anyway, see last gen's 390 vs 970 for example. I don't think people would have cared if they did something similar this gen. Nobody cared in the 390 vs 970. Nobody would care now.

This isn't directed at you, just a general reply 🙂 Impartial or not, people have their preferences, and some people do tend to have their fun sh*tting in as many AMD threads as possible. it gets F-tired to watch people stating things as if they are facts, when we haven't even had the F-ing cards released yet. (I would expect Navi to be on-track, you don't let other projects slow you down.) "AMD is Doomed" etc....F*ck that. What the AMD bashers do not seem to be able to grasp, is that AMD does not equal Nvidia in any way. Nvidia does not make Desktop CPU's or APU's. (Tegra and Automotive maybe). Nvidia has boatloads more money than AMD. Boatloads. There is also a lack of patience from quite alot of posters, who seem to be unable to wait for the announced release dates of products. If AMD is late, well, they are late. We knew it was August, and the BIOS's being finalised in August. Why was the Vega FE released then ? and with which BIOS ? No Idea, only AMD can answer that atm. the power consumption problems are directly due to the need for increased clocks, to get nearer the competition, and the process technology that has had a few hiccups in the last few years. Since the 290 series, they have been stuck at the bottom of the wall, with almost no headroom left. Polaris was a new GCN test, and you don't do that on the low margin, high-end parts. You take something from the middle. if it works, scale it up, if it doesn't, don't. We'll see what they have for us in a few weeks. If its good enough, we'll see.

@fantaskarsef: Not offended by you. My statement, that we are again spinning out of control had meaning. xIcarus did ignore it to point that he reassured everyone that it is fine behavior i warn about. And added question which from rhetoric standpoint means: "Tell us why should not we continue this trend." @xIcarus: And thank you for not actually answering that quote... Well, I tried to let you know about something... I failed as many times before.

the power consumption problems are directly due to the need for increased clocks, to get nearer the competition, and the process technology that has had a few hiccups in the last few years. Since the 290 series, they have been stuck at the bottom of the wall, with almost no headroom left. Polaris was a new GCN test, and you don't do that on the low margin, high-end parts. You take something from the middle. if it works, scale it up, if it doesn't, don't. We'll see what they have for us in a few weeks. If its good enough, we'll see.

Yes, Power and Clock changes from Fiji to Polaris to Vega are interesting. Fiji - Limited by TDP, could have clocked to 1200MHz and bit above if higher power delivery was there (but that would be huge power consumption then). Polaris - Not limited by TDP, and manages to hit clock wall. Vega - Limited by TDP again (at 1600MHz Core and above = 375W) as it can clock very high in comparison to last Polaris. That makes one wonder how high can smaller chip clock at similar TDP. (Btw. it means that AMD was not making jokes when they shown presentation saying that Vega NCUs are made to reach higher clock.)

Next month review of RX Vega on Guru3D.. 😉

My friend, you mean: Exclusively on Guru3d, 🙂.

@xIcarus: And thank you for not actually answering that quote... Well, I tried to let you know about something... I failed as many times before.

Of course you failed, you run away every single time logic is used against you. Like you just did. Instead of reading my post, you just put your fingers in your ears and yelled 'lalala I can't hear you'. :stewpid: I think I understand now why there seems to be a negative sentiment towards you on this board.

Of course you failed, you run away every single time logic is used against you. Like you just did. Instead of reading my post, you just put your fingers in your ears and yelled 'lalala I can't hear you'. :stewpid: I think I understand now why there seems to be a negative sentiment towards you on this board.

I did read it just fine. Several times. Thing is: "What does your 'bashing' of everyone has to do with sh*tposting done by others?" Or is one of those accounts posting it yours? I do not think so. So it really is not relevant. You can consider it as regular strawmanning when you go and identify yourself as direct target of my post (while you were not even there and was not trigger for it), and then you start describing how fair your approach is. You took simple fact that big part of our community can't again behave itself. And then twisted it to: "It is OK, I 'bash' equally everyone." But your actions does not equal everyone's. +Let's be fair, your r9-290 high price comparison to 970 false advertisement is bit out of place. And I do not see you to 'bash' every GTX 1080Ti's price. So, your 'equally bashed' argument feels like rather cheap construct meant as diversion. And yes, there may be pretty bad sentiment towards me. because I challenge many things which many do not want to read. And it's fine.

Not directed at me? Dude, you specifically replied to me and fantaskarsef and called me a hypocrite what the hell are you even doing. You practically implied that I'm either sh!posting or brand discriminating, while I gave you arguments against that. That's what my 'bashing of everyone has to do with sh!tposting done by others'. The cause is you. And my initial remark still stands: there is no sh!tposting against AMD before your intial reply. The only aggressive comment is made by Loophole who even said he's not trying to be a dick, he's just disappointed. Yet you claim that 'almost everyone' is sh!tposting. Who's sh!tposting? Give me examples. What's out of place about what I said? The 290x price drop was late, that's not even up for debate. Nvidia lied about the 970, also fact. What's the issue here? Yes, Nvidia done fcked up harder but that doesn't mean I'm sparing AMD just because there's a bigger elephant in the room. Why the hell would I bash the 1080Ti price? Considering the 980Ti was $650 and the 780Ti before it was $700, I really don't see the 1080Ti's $700 price as being anything offensive - especially since the yields aren't as good because they switched to a far smaller node. The negative sentiment towards you is because you invent arguments (see above, you denied directing posts toward me) and because you're AMD biased (for example anything even remotely anti-AMD is sh!tposting, waiting for Navi specifically even though nobody has any clue when it's coming or what it'll offer, etc).

Not directed at me? Dude, you specifically replied to me and fantaskarsef and called me a hypocrite what the hell are you even doing. You practically implied that I'm either sh!posting or brand discriminating, while I gave you arguments against that. That's what my 'bashing of everyone has to do with sh!tposting done by others'. The cause is you. And my initial remark still stands: there is no sh!tposting against AMD before your intial reply. The only aggressive comment is made by Loophole who even said he's not trying to be a dick, he's just disappointed. Yet you claim that 'almost everyone' is sh!tposting. Who's sh!tposting? Give me examples. What's out of place about what I said? The 290x price drop was late, that's not even up for debate. Nvidia lied about the 970, also fact. What's the issue here? Yes, Nvidia done fcked up harder but that doesn't mean I'm sparing AMD just because there's a bigger elephant in the room. Why the hell would I bash the 1080Ti price? Considering the 980Ti was $650 and the 780Ti before it was $700, I really don't see the 1080Ti's $700 price as being anything offensive - especially since the yields aren't as good because they switched to a far smaller node. The negative sentiment towards you is because you invent arguments (see above, you denied directing posts toward me) and because you're AMD biased (for example anything even remotely anti-AMD is sh!tposting, waiting for Navi specifically even though nobody has any clue when it's coming or what it'll offer, etc).

#10 did I?

Ranting for the sake of ranting

You need to take a chill pill.

Don't worry, I'm not mad. My emotional state right now is somewhere between amused and curious. I'm amused thinking of what comes next. And he delivered:

#10 did I?

No, #23. Once again it seems like you've done the fingers in the ear thing.

No, #23. Once again it seems like you've done the fingers in the ear thing.

You see, I told you, that you missed it. My post #10 was pretty clear. it was statement. To that you committed Strawman. There are 3 rational reaction to Strawman: 1) Let Strawman maker know what he did (I let you know in #23, #31) and not let him get away from topic (Which is #10, And I did not move from it, because your only reaction was strawman.) 2) Leave discussion moment Strawman maker shows no interest in getting back to original topic. (You had chance to end it after #28.) 3) Let Strawman dictate direction of discusion and accept it. (Not acceptable in this situation even as compromise.) So: Here is again my statement #10. And maybe this time you will reply meaningfully and clearly: a) "I consider described behavior as good, and I encourage it." b) "I disagree with described behavior, and I do not want it around."

Looks like our community is back on track. Almost everyone is: "I do not mean sh*tpost AMD, but here I do because it is AMD."

You need to take a chill pill.

Fight that urge to be a cheerleader! They have enough on their plates without you sh1tposting.

If you interpreted what I said as strawman, perhaps you don't understand English clearly enough to catch context and correlation. You're expecting a binary (yes/no) answer to the question 'do you agree with sh!tposting?', question which was never asked. I already replied meaningfully and clearly, with a question: who is sh!tposting? Are you going to answer or not?

If you interpreted what I said as strawman, perhaps you don't understand English clearly enough to catch context and correlation. You're expecting a binary (yes/no) answer to the question 'do you agree with sh!tposting?', question which was never asked. I already replied meaningfully and clearly, with a question: who is sh!tposting? Are you going to answer or not?

Did You?

Looks like our community is back on track. Almost everyone is: "I do not mean sh*tpost AMD, but here I do because it is AMD."

Yeah, we should all be okay with no competition for 1070 and above for more than one year. Hooray AMD, good job! Maybe don't do it again next year. How can you honestly be ok with half the market (lineup-wise) having no competition?

Your answer actually imply clearly, that AMD's absence in high end market justifies described behavior. And that question of yours there... Your intent failed as well: "While I may not be OK with AMD's absence there, it does not give me right to behave poorly towards them." I'm happy that AMD is around and somehow afloat. If that part of market has poor return of investment for them, then AMD should not be there. Temporarily or permanently depending on situation at given time. Edit: And do you know why I wanted to end it with #28? Because your secondary intend could have been just plain derailment. Luckily original information does not hold great discussion value to begin with.

Did You?

Yes? You still didn't answer what I asked you, you're simply debating the unrelated because you know the answer to my question puts your argument down hard. Yet somehow you think you can make it seem like I'm the one derailing the subject by inventing implications for my arguments where there aren't any. Fascinating.

You see, I told you, that you missed it. My post #10 was pretty clear. it was statement. To that you committed Strawman. There are 3 rational reaction to Strawman: 1) Let Strawman maker know what he did (I let you know in #23, #31) and not let him get away from topic (Which is #10, And I did not move from it, because your only reaction was strawman.) 2) Leave discussion moment Strawman maker shows no interest in getting back to original topic. (You had chance to end it after #28.) 3) Let Strawman dictate direction of discusion and accept it. (Not acceptable in this situation even as compromise.) So: Here is again my statement #10. And maybe this time you will reply meaningfully and clearly: a) "I consider described behavior as good, and I encourage it." b) "I disagree with described behavior, and I do not want it around."

Here is the problem with your post at #10. There had been (with the exception of your little tussle with xIcarus) no sh*tposting in this thread. Unless facts hurt your feeling like the FACT that Vega is currently over a year late, or the FACT that the current Vega silicon that is available consumes too much power for its level of performance. If those facts rub you the wrong way maybe you should just ignore any AMD Vega topic on the front page and just live in a bubble with OnnA where Vega is 20% faster than GP102 and only uses 220W. If anything your post at #10 was a sh*tpost. It was intended to stop any meaningful debate or conversation before it happens in the fear of being labeled a troll or fanboy.

Here is the problem with your post at #10. There had been (with the exception of your little tussle with xIcarus) no sh*tposting in this thread. Unless facts hurt your feeling like the FACT that Vega is currently over a year late, or the FACT that the current Vega silicon that is available consumes too much power for its level of performance.

I've been trying to get this message across since this 'debate' started, I doubt he'll listen now. He's just going to spin it off with something unrelated again.