Like I said in the other thread, I don't care for the game at all, yet I can't stand people who have no skin in the game posting negative stuff in every thread. (I'm not talking about you schmidtbag) It's kind of sad when you think about it. Chris Roberts has basically dedicated the past 5 years of his life towards making this thing. Large portions of the modules are already completed. They had to rewrite entire parts of the engine to make it work. He had to modularize the entire game, which meant bringing up stuff in a non-ideal order in order to satisfy fans/backers. Nearly every stretch goal is in some state of progress with some of the largers ones already mostly complete (fps). He recorded hours of cut scenes with top class hollywood actors that obviously costed a bit of money. The whole thing is at a scale of that could easily be labeled one of the most ambitious projects to date. It's only been 4-5 years in development which isn't even long for a AAA title. And yet still people **** all over the project and call it a scam and whatever. It like blows my mind because as an outsider looking in at it. CR basically is handling the entire thing way better then I'd expect any other person to handle it.

Like I said in the other thread, I don't care for the game at all, yet I can't stand people who have no skin in the game posting negative stuff in every thread. (I'm not talking about you schmidtbag) It's kind of sad when you think about it. Chris Roberts has basically dedicated the past 5 years of his life towards making this thing. Large portions of the modules are already completed. They had to rewrite entire parts of the engine to make it work. He had to modularize the entire game, which meant bringing up stuff in a non-ideal order in order to satisfy fans/backers. Nearly every stretch goal is in some state of progress with some of the largers ones already mostly complete (fps). He recorded hours of cut scenes with top class hollywood actors that obviously costed a bit of money. The whole thing is at a scale of that could easily be labeled one of the most ambitious projects to date. It's only been 4-5 years in development which isn't even long for a AAA title. And yet still people **** all over the project and call it a scam and whatever. It like blows my mind because as an outsider looking in at it. CR basically is handling the entire thing way better then I'd expect any other person to handle it.

Gives regular updates, is totally open about progress and goals, has delivered ambitious games in the past and has made almost the entire development process playable in some capacity. Like that's one of the biggest things a ton of people ignore. Most of what they have done is currently in some kind of state where you can play or see it. There are currently people who come home and log into Star Citizen and play it. It's by no means finished, but there's clearly something there, there's clearly a lot of progress being made. The problem we have are people who have just never seen or even thought about what the development process on a large game looks like.

sad I think this is a simple case of someone not doing their research. People seem to think games less ambitious and some in their mind that are equally ambitious (none are as of so far) as SC take less then time has been spent so far on RSI's game. While some do, most do not and those of quality take a lot longer then has been spent to far. I've spent $1.3~k so far and I don't regret it. But I was expecting to wait like 5 years, the fact we have what we do so far even blows my mind. Someone else said he hadn't played the alpha. I agree, he clearly didn't care about the project. :infinity: I think these people that do get refunds will regret putting up such a fuss later, assuming he didn't need the money to survive.

The poor guy probably needed his money back for a divorce or something. lol

The poor guy probably needed his money back for a divorce or something. lol

I get the feeling he still lives with his mother. Its a shame people like this can get their money back, they certainly don't deserve it but CIG is between a rock and a hard place. Give money back, pay legal fees or call their bluff and waste countless days debating with the spoilt brat. Still, I'm looking forward to what they give us. At very least we will get the single player SQ42 in the not too distant future, no idea if/when and how good the MMO Star Citizen will be but I'd easily say its the most ambitious game ever attempted. To some that's a bad thing...to me, I think its great.

Like I said in the other thread, I don't care for the game at all, yet I can't stand people who have no skin in the game posting negative stuff in every thread. (I'm not talking about you schmidtbag) It's kind of sad when you think about it. Chris Roberts has basically dedicated the past 5 years of his life towards making this thing. Large portions of the modules are already completed. They had to rewrite entire parts of the engine to make it work. He had to modularize the entire game, which meant bringing up stuff in a non-ideal order in order to satisfy fans/backers. Nearly every stretch goal is in some state of progress with some of the largers ones already mostly complete (fps). He recorded hours of cut scenes with top class hollywood actors that obviously costed a bit of money. The whole thing is at a scale of that could easily be labeled one of the most ambitious projects to date. It's only been 4-5 years in development which isn't even long for a AAA title. And yet still people **** all over the project and call it a scam and whatever. It like blows my mind because as an outsider looking in at it. CR basically is handling the entire thing way better then I'd expect any other person to handle it.

"I'd like to build a deathstar - please give me some money!" "Show me the plans, technical readouts, materials required, blueprints and tell me your completion date" "Erm, I got some pretty pictures and indications on when it will be completed...nothing technical as such...and I don't have any blueprints...BUT I really, really, really want to build it and, please give me some money" "Okay, I'll give you some money on the understanding I am only doing so because your indicated completion date seems reasonable" "Thank you!" Time passes... "Where is the deathstar you promised; where are those plans?" "Oh, what? Oh, I still don't have any plans, but have lots more pretty pictures!" Time passes... "Where is the deathst...are you building an elaborate and completely unnecessary door for you office????" "That? Oh, that was to help with promoting the need to beg for more money from more people!" "...But, what about your original ideas to build a deathstar???" "...Well, I am still going to build a deathstar, only, I figured that as it was so ambitious, I would add more complexity to it and make even more ambitious and complicated, that way I can ask for even more money...just look at the pretty pictures! aren't they impressive?" "I don't want to look at any godamn pictures of what you hope to build, I want to see the thing you said you would build originally and to that end, I wish...wait!!! Is that a new TIE Fighter parked outside?" "...yes..." "Why are you spending galactic credits on a new TIE Fighter???" "Well, this is to add value to the new Docking bay and take some more pretty pictures...and to commemorate my new idea to build not one, stay with me here, but TWO deathstars - and possibly a small space station which has priority parking for the people who originally gave me money, which includes you!" "WHAT??? I didn't ask for two, I just wanted the first one to be built! And, what's this SpaceBook message I got from you about terms of service?" "Oh..." "It says by agreeing to it, I can't get my money back?" "...yes..." "Well, I am changing the terms of the agreement and am going to get my money back!" "Wait, you can't do that!" (puts fingers in ears) "La, La-Lah le-lah-lah" - Sound familiar? Ambition means nothing without execution, and giving someone credit for having an ambition is only justified when they are able to execute their ambition. If not, then all you have is a near never-ending series of ambitions and lots of rationalisations. None of this means anything. If your deathstar does not have the power to destroy a planet, then all you got is a big unfinished lump of spherical metal floating in space. So proven by what happened. And that, is indisputable in a court of law. If you can't deal with that - you (plural) are the one with the problem. All the critics you can hang 'em, I'll hold the rope But they hope to the Pope, and pray it ain't dope Public Enemy - Don't Believe The Hype

Nice lots of BS there loobyluggs, you been drinking a certain parties koolaid??? There's been a ton of info about the work done on the engine, the persistent universe and the different mechanisms needed to get it all to function correctly. I don't even need to link to it as it's all readily available from Reddit to the main CIG site. That entire diatribe above literally holds no evidence and is all just a straw man argument. Nice try though 😉

Nice lots of BS there loobyluggs, you been drinking a certain parties koolaid??? There's been a ton of info about the work done on the engine, the persistent universe and the different mechanisms needed to get it all to function correctly. I don't even need to link to it as it's all readily available from Reddit to the main CIG site. That entire diatribe above literally holds no evidence and is all just a straw man argument. Nice try though 😉

He's only posting in here because he was shut down in the other thread after making false claims. The guy has a strange obsession with Star Citizen.

He's only posting in here because he was shut down in the other thread after making false claims. The guy has a strange obsession with Star Citizen.

No, I have problems with this: Kickstarter et al, are not there for people who have money, they are there for people who do not. Ridiculous and extreme analogy: Sir Richard Branson sets up a crowdsourcing project to get his new company off the ground, so he can develop a new car...get my point? (a) CR should have had absolutely no issues whatsoever getting money for the development of this project started. (b) Once the funds hit the level required, he should have stopped taking money and start the development to deliver the intended project. (c) People are arguing for him, regurgitating hype and PR log lines delivered by CR, as if they are unable to form critical analysis of process, planning and business acumen. Scanner Barkly spoke about the problems of this, in the following video: [youtube]/VMksxgIK5N4?t=5m43s[/youtube] Key point is at 7:18. What you will note and see, is I am not going to say anything about the actual content of this project, because I will leave that in the hands of the critics/Metacritic scores, who will destroy (figuratively) this project, on the final release of the final product. I sit, waiting and look forward to collecting apologies from everyone.

Again you missed the point. At the time of the Kickstarter CR had no issues getting the money for the original scope, he had a lot of issues with the Publishers who were against the whole space genre saying it was dead. Hence he decided to crowdfund and the supplement with Investor backing. In turn the crowdfunding was so powerful he didn't require the investors any longer (except the select few that were involved at the beginning) and we end up with the never ending crowdfunding of SC. It's not all negative either, with the funds raised and the continued support for it the funds for the Persistent Universe and additional future content for it are pretty much in the bag. The way you are looking at it is just one perspective and looking forward it's a perspective that's likely to be found useless from a business perspective. Why turn down money to produce something when it's freely given??? Oh and you'll never get an apology from me, I'll just sit here and enjoy my popcorn as you rage your way off the forum 🙂

I love how there are so many space games now... it really was a dead genre and now it's like super popular again. I wonder if Derek will ever finish his game or just keep foaming at the mouth on twitter.

Again you missed the point. At the time of the Kickstarter CR had no issues getting the money for the original scope, he had a lot of issues with the Publishers who were against the whole space genre saying it was dead.

Citation required, please. If the only proof of that, btw, is CR himself stating he had issues with publishers - then that is no proof but hearsay, and does not lend itself to your point. I get your point, I really do; but arguing for someone else does not make a horse drink.

Oh and you'll never get an apology from me, I'll just sit here and enjoy my popcorn as you rage your way off the forum 🙂

Perhaps I will be the one buying the popcorn for everyone else to enjoy as I eat the biggest humble pie you have ever seen 🙂 Even if the final product gets 100/100 and a personal HJ from Kim Kasparian, it still will not change the fact this individual got a full refund from CR, and, the original CF declarations were changed beyond all recognition. Ship of Theseus, argued by the US legal system as being 'no'. The defence is 'this is a ship', but is still a fallacious statement because it is not the same ship and cannot be used as a defence.

It doesn't change the dude getting a refund, it doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things. The controversy surrounding it is just FUD as usual. Even funnier is that the dude went "look at me I got a $3,000 refund from CIG", yet the only reason he got the refund is it was the cheapest option to make an idiot get lost, it doesn't even set a precedent for anything as nothing transpired legally. As for the game changing from the CF declarations, that was largely at the behest of the crowd, it did allow CR to expand his scope quite dramatically and may have slowed down the release schedule, but TBH the silent majority are speaking volumes in this regard. They aren't fussed about the wait.

The backer is entitled to have his money refunded because in his mind the people behind this game didn't deliver their promises and in his mind it was breach of contract and the legal system agreed considering there was small investigation from a California D.A.

Yet another idiot consumer who spends his money on something before fully understanding what he's spending it on. I'm $1500 into Star Citizen, but I have plenty of other things to do while I wait for the game's completion. I look at it as spending $60 for a copy of a game and donating ~$1400 to help with developed. As long as it eventually comes out and I enjoy it, I'm happy.

Wall'O'Texts

lol You managed to perfectly illustrate how the uninformed outsider views the Star Citizen project. Your posts are entertaining reads, but sadly nothing you say has any grip on the reality of it [Star Citizen].

You managed to perfectly illustrate how the uninformed outsider views the Star Citizen project. Your posts are entertaining reads, but sadly nothing you say has any grip on the reality of it [Star Citizen].

And...you perfectly illustrate how easy it is for people to be scammed and pacified? The guy got his money back. The legal system agreed with him. CI agree with the legal system...and yet, you argue my observation of these facts? Do you really need to use the Chewbacca defense here? Or are we all grown up enough to admit there is nothing to argue when the company involved agrees with the legal system, because if they didn't, they would have acted in accordance with that belief. They didn't. Deal with it. Sleep at night. Floss your teeth. Call your mother once in a while. Be nice to your siblings.

Yet another idiot consumer who spends his money on something before fully understanding what he's spending it on.

No actually the idiot consumer would be the person who paid what he paid and then just accepted that the game has not gone the direction that it was originally promised when he first signed up, maybe add in maonaing about it from time to time while doing nothing. If anything he is a very savy consumer he read what he was paying for at the start and paid in to it then as time went on saw that the game was not going the direction that was originally promised, saw that it wasn't what he was originally promised and asked for his money back without agreeing to the new TOS. When they refused he then took the issue to a higher authority and they ruled in his favour, I would say clever consumer and idiot developer since they would have avoided a whole heap of bad publicity on this issue if they had just given the guy his cash back in the first place.

Once again folks, there was NO legal determination, period. No legal ruling was made, period. This is no different that you having a dispute and it being resolved by the company giving back your money.

And...you perfectly illustrate how easy it is for people to be scammed and pacified? The guy got his money back. The legal system agreed with him. CI agree with the legal system...and yet, you argue my observation of these facts? Do you really need to use the Chewbacca defense here? Or are we all grown up enough to admit there is nothing to argue when the company involved agrees with the legal system, because if they didn't, they would have acted in accordance with that belief. They didn't. Deal with it. Sleep at night. Floss your teeth. Call your mother once in a while. Be nice to your siblings.

How about we just point out the fact, you're making things up (still)? What court of law was this case adjudicated in again? Oh right, you made that up.

Once again folks, there was NO legal determination, period. No legal ruling was made, period. This is no different that you having a dispute and it being resolved by the company giving back your money. How about we just point out the fact, you're making things up (still)? What court of law was this case adjudicated in again? Oh right, you made that up.

True that nothing legal happened. It was unofficial help from the LA DA and other agencies.

I'm really glad Star Citizen expanded beyond its original scope. I would have probably not been invovled if it was purely a dogfighting game, with a dogfight-centric campaign. This guy spent 3K$ on the game.... Most Star Citizen player invested around 40$... In-game 4K trailer feat Starfarer: [youtube]xSV5Z_fjqbc[/youtube]