Stormyandcold:

The law of diminishing returns. This new generation of cards will also highlight the cpu bottleneck problem. Anyway, still looks like a great offering from AMD. Now its all about supply.

What CPU bottleneck? GPUs have been the main bottleneck in gaming for a while, particularly in 4k. "big Navi" is probably built with 4k in mind, as was the 3080. As for supply, I doubt it'll be as bad as Nvidia. TSMC seems to have better yields and AMD is generally less popular among enthusiasts. Should they screw up the drivers like they did with the 5000 series, that'll lower its demand.

schmidtbag:

What CPU bottleneck? GPUs have been the main bottleneck in gaming for a while, particularly in 4k. "big Navi" is probably built with 4k in mind, as was the 3080. As for supply, I doubt it'll be as bad as Nvidia. TSMC seems to have better yields and AMD is generally less popular among enthusiasts. Should they screw up the drivers like they did with the 5000 series, that'll lower its demand.

It doesn't matter, TSMC are also having to manufacture PS5 and XSX soc. I'm pretty sure AMD told us that consoles was their priority not so long ago, before we get to see finalised PC version. I suspect that they already can't fulfill Sony's order (hence Sony lowering their sales forecast), never mind trying to serve the PC market as well. Let's not kid ourselves; supply is going to be poor initially for the PC version of Navi. However, this time we're going to see a 3-way scalp-fest.

[spoiler]https://www.sarajevotimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/salt.jpg [/spoiler]

Stormyandcold:

It doesn't matter, TSMC are also having to manufacture PS5 and XSX soc. I'm pretty sure AMD told us that consoles was their priority not so long ago, before we get to see finalised PC version. I suspect that they already can't fulfill Sony's order (hence Sony lowering their sales forecast), never mind trying to serve the PC market as well. Let's not kid ourselves; supply is going to be poor initially for the PC version of Navi. However, this time we're going to see a 3-way scalp-fest.

I can bet 100$ that supply will be much better than ampre ;P

Stormyandcold:

It doesn't matter, TSMC are also having to manufacture PS5 and XSX soc. I'm pretty sure AMD told us that consoles was their priority not so long ago, before we get to see finalised PC version. I suspect that they already can't fulfill Sony's order (hence Sony lowering their sales forecast), never mind trying to serve the PC market as well. Let's not kid ourselves; supply is going to be poor initially for the PC version of Navi. However, this time we're going to see a 3-way scalp-fest.

I would think all of the current batch of PS5/XBX chips are already done and delivered. those for the Holiday season at least. When AMD has had their launch, More PS5/XBX chips will be made, for new years sales. They probably won't all be producing large quantities of chips at the same time, is what i'm saying basically.

well at this point with the status of the 3080 here in canada might as well wait and see the reviews for this before buying, it ll be competitive with the 3080 no doubts, we just have to wait and see with rtx

the real question here is the alleged clock speed of 2.4ghz. i accept afaik, that Nvidia's uArch is the S.O.T.A. they're dogged however by low yields on a new process, with a new vendor, which are related but also have separate effects. with that out of the way, we all know AMD's RDNA (1). if we accept what AMD claims re:RDNA2 vs RDNA and look at the power rating... i believe that instead of disabling CU's on the step down they will just dial the power back. this process is natively efficient, so with a less extensive heatsink and a lower total power draw we can see a RTX 3070 killer. that is the sweet spot. the 2nd from the top model always wins in a perf/price decision. yes the avid few will go for the top regardless, but the real sales kings are what enables the Halo Cards whether Nvidia or Radeon. the 3070,2070,1070 etc and likewise with AMD each have sold well over double and in some cases triple or more the top model. which is binned. which is lower yield (tho AMD gets more it's still lower). my biggest gripe with the Ampere series is the decision not to put an aio on it. triple slot solutions require case design decisions for anyone who went ITX. some ITX cases already have the psu forward located, other can repurpose the bottom fan mounts. as it stands custom blocks for Ampere are sky high. if you already have a custom loop, no big problem except time and money. but most people don't, even at the high end.. if you're waiting on Ryzen 3, then go for MATX (if you can find one) if you want an air cooled SFF

circeseye:

ive always used amd gpu's (only nvidea was 670 and nothing but issues) and pretty much every card release the drivers were fubar in one way or another. even if its equal to the 3080 guaranty the drivers will screw it all up for months to a year (look how long the black/green screen took to fix on the 5000"s) sad when you think about it. i dont update drivers untill i see they are ok

Odd the only time i ever had problem was the first time i used 290 cards. ignoring those drivers it has been flawless never had any issues what so ever. I see people complaining but never experienced any of the problems people say they have. I haven't crashed once or had any issues for the last 4 years and i game daily.

Stormyandcold:

It doesn't matter, TSMC are also having to manufacture PS5 and XSX soc. I'm pretty sure AMD told us that consoles was their priority not so long ago, before we get to see finalised PC version. I suspect that they already can't fulfill Sony's order (hence Sony lowering their sales forecast), never mind trying to serve the PC market as well. Let's not kid ourselves; supply is going to be poor initially for the PC version of Navi. However, this time we're going to see a 3-way scalp-fest.

Consoles are AMD's top priority, not TSMC's. That's why Vega64 turned out to be such a disappointment. I'm sure supply won't be great but it won't be anywhere near as bad as what Nvidia is in right now.

TGP is not total board power, these cards will be 300w+ overall.

Astyanax:

TGP is not total board power, these cards will be 300w+ overall.

TGP + cooling_power = TBP Do you insist that cooling and possibly LED will eat another 45W? Then again, AMD is not using TGB. They are using TBP for very long time and there is nothing hinting change in that.

With all the napkin math being done, can Neo Cyrus elaborate on why a ~3080 performing card at 255watt GPU power is a terrible failure?

Fox2232:

TGP + cooling_power = TBP Do you insist that cooling and possibly LED will eat another 45W? Then again, AMD is not using TGB. They are using TBP for very long time and there is nothing hinting change in that.

Also the RAM requires power and various other components.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-gets-additional-14000-units-of-7nm-capacity-at-tsmc-to-be-diverted-to-xsx-and-ps5-consoles/

Stormyandcold:

The law of diminishing returns. This new generation of cards will also highlight the cpu bottleneck problem. Anyway, still looks like a great offering from AMD. Now its all about supply.

CPU bottleneck problem?? It's already getting better as time goes on. Seems like software needs to be written to take advantage of CPU cores more than GPU's needing CPU's to help them along. And the only problem is with low resolution.

DeskStar:

CPU bottleneck problem?? It's already getting better as time goes on. Seems like software needs to be written to take advantage of CPU cores more than GPU's needing CPU's to help them along. And the only problem is with low resolution.

Hopefully with both consoles having multi core game devs will start to take advantage of it. There's a fair amount of performance left on the table right there.

Fox2232:

Do you insist that cooling and possibly LED will eat another 45W?

I'm saying high end Radeon and efficiency don't belong in the same sentence.

Astyanax:

I'm saying high end Radeon and efficiency don't belong in the same sentence.

True. Amd competing at the high end always brought out a power hungry and hot radeon cards. Times change though, look at nvidia. :P

Undying:

True. Amd competing at the high end always brought out a power hungry and hot radeon cards. Times change though, look at nvidia. 😛

Nudge @ManuelG a bit about getting auto undervolt into the driver 😛, the good grade chips show some hefty efficiency gains when they aren't being overvolted for the worst cases.

Maddness:

Hopefully with both consoles having multi core game devs will start to take advantage of it. There's a fair amount of performance left on the table right there.

Damn straight!!

I'm just taking all of this with a grain of salt until 10/28. I do not think RDNA2 is going to be a let down like Vega however I am staying reserved. I'm pretty sure AMD's power savings goals will come in handy at raising clocks but will they have a 2.4Ghz card idk.