schmidtbag:

*sigh* Not the CPU alone. They tend to replace the whole computer...

yes I know why would you even suggest that they're replacing the cpu is beyond me to have something to bicker about apparently

schmidtbag:

At first that made a lot of sense, but after thinking about it more, it doesn't make much sense at all. For the extra high-end systems (workstations and servers), you're either going to need a dGPU or no GPU at all. For the especially niche systems that need basic display functionalities but a lot of cores, we're not talking tens of thousands of units being produced, so it isn't that great of an expense to add a low-end dGPU. For mobile systems, embedded systems, mini PCs, family/office PCs, and HTPCs, AMD produces APUs that would get the job done. Granted, much of those chips are BGA, but OEMs have plenty of experience with that. As for gaming PCs, high-clocked 6 and 8 core models are the most sensible choice. AMD doesn't sell any with an iGPU, but... if it's a gaming PC then you want a dGPU anyway, so it's a non-issue.

Well, when I worked IT at a big tech company with loads of engineers - outside the datacenter and super computer they had, there were masses of big HP workstations with dual socket many-core Xeons sitting in various aircon'd rooms on every floor. These things were generally just hooked up to the network and there was 1 monitor in the room that you'd grab the cable for and plug in to one that had issues. So, these didn't have GPUs generally, but you would use the igpu for troubleshooting if you couldn't get to it via the network. Normally you'd probably have this in a datacenter setup, but ... they didn't, because of corporate politics and how departments were seperate from eachother. This is pretty common in big companies to have these political splits.

cucaulay malkin:

yes I know why would you even suggest that they're replacing the cpu is beyond me to have something to bicker about apparently

Like I said, you obviously didn't read my post, because there's nothing to bicker about if you did. You read one sentence and started to argue with me based on that alone. My point was these CPUs aren't replaced, so, OEMs supplying PCs with BGA APUs would fix the problem @tunejunky was speaking of. TL;DR: If OEMs don't like the added overhead/cost of installing a dGPU, they had plenty of Zen3 APUs to choose from to suit just about all of their target markets, if they went with BGA. Since companies like Dell love the idea of planned obsolescence, I would think they'd prefer BGA.

I was hoping for 16cu or more tbh. Waiting to see the day that apu's all offer 60fps+ @1080p for current games.

JamesSneed:

It's going to be like 1/4" of area in the IO die. Its freaking tiny so its not really a trade off for cache. The server guys want this bad as you don't need to add in a card to get a console up on the machine. Also those of us as home have a nice troubleshooting option if the graphics card is on the blink. This is a great idea. If you want cache just wait for the 3D stacked models that will land early 2023.

Real server guys wouldn't touch this consumer entry level thingy.

schmidtbag:

Like I said, you obviously didn't read my post, because there's nothing to bicker about if you did. You read one sentence and started to argue with me based on that alone. My point was these CPUs aren't replaced, so, OEMs supplying PCs with BGA APUs would fix the problem @tunejunky was speaking of. TL;DR: If OEMs don't like the added overhead/cost of installing a dGPU, they had plenty of Zen3 APUs to choose from to suit just about all of their target markets, if they went with BGA. Since companies like Dell love the idea of planned obsolescence, I would think they'd prefer BGA.

few office cpus need anything more than a card that will open ms office so apus are wasteful if 2cu does the job more options is better,that's what amd clearly understood and you can't even a dgpu would be better cause it's transferrable, unlike in the apu.

cucaulay malkin:

few office cpus need anything more than a card that will open ms office so apus are wasteful if 2cu does the job more options is better,that's what amd clearly understood and you can't even a dgpu would be better cause it's transferrable, unlike in the apu.

Except for all these years, AMD hasn't provided something like this until now. So no, clearly AMD didn't understand this, and they're only doing it because that's what's being asked of them in order to sell more chips. As tunejunky pointed out, dGPUs impact production lines, so being transferrable is not a viable selling point. Also, even AMD's current overkill iGPUs cost less than the most cost-cut dGPUs. So, while I get OEMs might want models with cheaper iGPUs, they still could have been producing PCs with AMD's BGA chips for higher margins. Maybe be less of an ass next time, eh?

schmidtbag:

they're only doing it because that's what's being asked of them in order to sell more chips

from their perspective,that's just fantastic if they're doing things to supply demand.

FatBoyNL:

Real server guys wouldn't touch this consumer entry level thingy.

For Zen4 AMD is using the exact same IO die for consumer and server CPU's. Since the iGPU is in the IO die every server CPU will have an iGPU. So what I said directly applies to the data center folks of which I used to be one.