ttnuagmada:

It's got 8 puny cores. It's essentially a tablet SoC, one from 6 years ago no less, so its single threaded performance is abysmal. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear that a Zen 2 core was 10 times faster than an Xb1 core.

Someone compared a Jaguar and Zen+ here; https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9t3wiz/whats_the_difference_in_ipc_between_jaguar_and/ Roughly 2.5x faster IPC. So you're probably looking at 3x for Zen2. That's still a significant increase in CPU power, especially with Hyperthreading to enable more cpu resources to be used.

The thing that I think is most interesting has nothing to do with how powerful it is going to be, but just the simple fact it is backward compatible.

don't worry they'll keep the cinematic experience I just have a hard time understanding how this could be possible considering consoles can't get too expensive and a 2080Ti at 1200 can't game at 8k with raytracing enabled.

Labeled90:

don't worry they'll keep the cinematic experience I just have a hard time understanding how this could be possible considering consoles can't get too expensive and a 2080Ti at 1200 can't game at 8k with raytracing enabled.

Think 8k was more for tv support than game support. and we are talking about another year or so for it to come out, things do get cheaper, but i assume either it will be a more expensive console, or sony are willing to take a hit to sell mass software. Though i'm thinking it'll be around £500-£600 for the base model (smaller size SSD) with it going up to maybe £1000 for like a 2TB SSD or something... shall see, early adopters normally pay more for the consoles, ps3 was also crazy prices, but i kinda hope they don't go down that route again honestly

I think 8k maybe upscaled or at low FPS (30), but still a custom made GPU, whit a new powerful CPU may have some power for 8k. Still no 8k TV for at a nice price, and the content.... Or maybe PS 5 PRO ...

Lie much, sony?

OK ryzen 2 processor, where is the part that says is the entry level one? 😛

ttnuagmada:

It's got 8 puny cores. It's essentially a tablet SoC, one from 6 years ago no less, so its single threaded performance is abysmal. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear that a Zen 2 core was 10 times faster than an Xb1 core.

Richard Nutman:

Someone compared a Jaguar and Zen+ here; https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9t3wiz/whats_the_difference_in_ipc_between_jaguar_and/ Roughly 2.5x faster IPC. So you're probably looking at 3x for Zen2. That's still a significant increase in CPU power, especially with Hyperthreading to enable more cpu resources to be used.

While it certainly is right that Zen2 is faster, the multithreading optimizations should have kicked in back then, too. Only that they never made it to PC, sadly. With lower IPC on BX1 / PS4 I would already have expected multithreading optimizations to be the thing, especially since performance wasn't the best, but it took a long, long time until the PC showed something comparable. The ther question is, what does a console need all that CPU power for? 😀 (Seriously, streaming integration and the likes probably are a big thing in next gen consoles I think.)

Arghh, Zen2 8 core CPU for the next gen consoles, looks like my 4 core 8 thread 6700K is gonna be coming to the end of it's useful life soonish! PC games often follow the development trend of console technology, and with this console coming out in 2020 then games being released in 2020 are likely gonna be challenging my 6700K a little too hard is my prediction! I was hoping to upgrade my GPU in 2020 and keep my 6700K, seeing as my 6700K has only ever seen my GTX 1070 in use, it would feel like bad value to not give it a chance at a pairing with a 3000 series NVidia GPU - my poor 6700K! :-(

Robbo9999:

Arghh, Zen2 8 core CPU for the next gen consoles, looks like my 4 core 8 thread 6700K is gonna be coming to the end of it's useful life soonish! PC games often follow the development trend of console technology, and with this console coming out in 2020 then games being released in 2020 are likely gonna be challenging my 6700K a little too hard is my prediction! I was hoping to upgrade my GPU in 2020 and keep my 6700K, seeing as my 6700K has only ever seen my GTX 1070 in use, it would feel like bad value to not give it a chance at a pairing with a 3000 series NVidia GPU - my poor 6700K! :-(

How about you wait for when 2020 comes, and see if you really are bottlenecked by then? 😉 Don't panic.

So it will have 4-Way SLI then.

Richard Nutman:

Someone compared a Jaguar and Zen+ here; https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9t3wiz/whats_the_difference_in_ipc_between_jaguar_and/ Roughly 2.5x faster IPC. So you're probably looking at 3x for Zen2. That's still a significant increase in CPU power, especially with Hyperthreading to enable more cpu resources to be used.

But you also have to consider that the original XB1/PS4 CPUs run at 1.75-1.8ghz. These Zen 2 cores will probably literally run at twice the clock speed. So we're looking at a massive single thread performance increase. if those IPC numbers are correct then we're looking at 5-6x single thread increase.

fantaskarsef:

While it certainly is right that Zen2 is faster, the multithreading optimizations should have kicked in back then, too. Only that they never made it to PC, sadly. With lower IPC on BX1 / PS4 I would already have expected multithreading optimizations to be the thing, especially since performance wasn't the best, but it took a long, long time until the PC showed something comparable. The ther question is, what does a console need all that CPU power for? 😀 (Seriously, streaming integration and the likes probably are a big thing in next gen consoles I think.)

There's only so much you can do with multi-threading. Though i'd say that games have actually improved in that area in the timespan since consoles came out. It's one of those things that programmers had to learn how to utilize. There's no learning curve with a raw performance increase.

The PS4 was a great console at launch, especially for its price, and the only letdown in it and the newer Pro model was the weak Jaguar cores. Sony really got it right when they marketed the console purely as a games machine and backed it up over the years with plenty of stunning exclusive games (Uncharted 4, Ratchet & Clank, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man etc), something Microsoft completely failed on with the Xbox One, not helped by a weak launch platform, that useless Kinect thing and a disasterous unveiling which focused on the Xbox One as a home media entertainment system along with 24 hour internet checks and so on. The Xbox One X is without a doubt a superbly made piece of kit (I bought mine really for the Ultra HD BD drive) but it was good exclusive games that the system needed, not mediocrity like State of Decay 2 and the "deep as a ocean, shallow as a puddle" Sea of Thieves! I'm confident that the PS5 will be a great games machine and perhaps the only console I will need next generation. I'm sure the Xbox Two (?) will be equally impressive in terms of hardware specs but without those exclusive games then it will be a hard sell for me, particularly with Microsoft releasing pretty much every Xbox One game on PC as well. That the PS5 is backward compatible with my extensive (150+ physical and that again digitial) PS4 games collection is just the icing on the cake. How much will it cost though? I wouldn't expect it to cost more than the £425 launch price of the Xbox One X (and PS3) but it will almost certainly cost more than the £350 launch PS4 IMO unless Sony also release a digital-only (disc-less) model of the console at a lower price point?

Clawedge:

I honestly don't see the point of ray tracing. It's just a gimmick at best, adds almost no value to gameplay. They should have focused on proper destructible environments. That's what I would consider amazing.

I do agree. Visual side of raytracing is not that important once compute cost is factored in. I liked that new UE4 destruction. That may be good. But as have been said, consoles will use its raytracing capability to check vision for AI and do better audio. I love good audio almost as much as high fps.

ttnuagmada:

There's only so much you can do with multi-threading. Though i'd say that games have actually improved in that area in the timespan since consoles came out. It's one of those things that programmers had to learn how to utilize. There's no learning curve with a raw performance increase.

You are not wrong, but the adaption of more CPU cores could have been a thing with the PS3's release already... if they would have been serious about it on PC as well, we would have 12 supported threads since 2010 already, in every game. There simply was no need as PC gamers were fine with Intel's 4/8 CPUs for... about a decade.

Interesting also that finally use an SSD, my M.2 is always at idle, with the only I've seen it run a little and have even more difference in Fps with respect to HDD has been with the DOOM game.

Clawedge:

I honestly don't see the point of ray tracing. It's just a gimmick at best, adds almost no value to gameplay. They should have focused on proper destructible environments. That's what I would consider amazing.

I remember back when nVidia was pushing destructible environments, volumetric smoke, hairworks, etc... and just like today the AMD fanboys keep calling innovation "gimmicks" simply because AMD can't do them.

icedman:

The good thing about raytracing being introduced on console is that it will hopefully lead to game devs heavily optimizing it for weaker hardware. Requiring a 2080ti atm to get mediocre performance at best right now is really killing raytracing adoption.

Killing raytracing adoption? Because you haven't bought one? nVidia is selling RTX cards just fine. The drop in discrete GPU sales is almost exclusively due the crash of bitcoin mining on such gpus. If RTX cards are selling as bad as so many here love to claim, then AMD would be almost out of business considering where their GPU market share that has plummeted dramatically since last year. If RTX was this huge flop... then how on earth could they have gained about 7% since last quarter alone? https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-releases/jon-peddie-research-releases-its-q4-2018-add-in-board-report/

Twice the clockspeed ? I'm not so sure.. Consoles have limited space for cpu cooling. Given how much more IPC it will have, I don't expect clock speeds to be that high. 2.5 to 3Ghz probably.

fantaskarsef:

You are not wrong, but the adaption of more CPU cores could have been a thing with the PS3's release already... if they would have been serious about it on PC as well, we would have 12 supported threads since 2010 already, in every game. There simply was no need as PC gamers were fine with Intel's 4/8 CPUs for... about a decade.

I would say that one can go really far with multi-threading in games. AI can be threaded (instanced) as much as one wants. Physics is in similar situation. Animation systems, voxelized data structures used for any purpose (which can be often done via GPU too), file management (load, unpacking, ... but requires ssd due to increased number of random accesses), pre-culling of objects.

Richard Nutman:

Twice the clockspeed ? I'm not so sure.. Consoles have limited space for cpu cooling. Given how much more IPC it will have, I don't expect clock speeds to be that high. 2.5 to 3Ghz probably.

Older consoles had "CAT" cores, IPC gain is quite huge and even 50% higher clock will make each core more than twice as strong. With SMT which adds usually between 25% and 35% boost per core, we can expect around 2,6 to 3x CPU power if it was Zen1. But considering AMD's demo of Zen2, I would not be afraid to say that within same TDP as older consoles had for CPU new ones will be 3,2~4x as strong on CPU side.