this why i holding off on purchasing that is entirely to small, and conisdering the COST of NVME drive in first place just know 2tb nvme drive would cost half the price of the system. As for people saying it not that bad. if majority of collection is digital download 50 gb + games on less 200mbit connection is NOT Fun special on PSN server where you luck if it goes half you speed, I have 400mbit connection that actual does 550mbit + on steam and most other place but psn I barely get 200mbit having to constanlty delete game to install other game is pain, made "less" so if connection is physical. Never part contry and world has really fast speed that realible some place are still stuck with 50mbit and pay the same as poeple with 200 or 400mbit and gbit connect arnt cheap in the states it actual I have seen how much people pay for gbit connection in place like japan which translate to less that what most pay for 400 or even gbit in states. I have 2tb drive in my ps4 for these reason I dont want spend 30 minutes waiting for it to install before I can play for 30 minutes to for it to download. Maybe they should just ship phyiscal copies of games on NVME drive and we just plug them in problem solved no need to install anything

Mufflore:

Its not as simple as game load time, if this is allowed it can result in a poorer gaming experience. Because of the very fast storage, games are designed to load data as it is needed, in real time. When storage is slower than the game is written for, there can be object pop in or stutters due to them not loading fast enough.

it remains to be seen how many games will even take advantage of it but regular games should still be playable on an external. Might have to manage the local storage a bit more because of that.

Lets not forget the additional space needed to download a game before it can even be installed, i.e. PS4 requires nearly twice the space to get a game installed.

What I really want to see is how PC port go if these game are "built" using drive that NVME how the port gona be if most people are HDD/SSD NVME isnt main stream on PC for few reason, one be price never mind fact how widely availbe ins pcie 4.0 on PC? last I check we got lot MB be realeased with 3.0 still cause cpu are still using 3.0 for most part? short of most recent stuff I all for for fast speed but not if space sacrificed and not at the price of NVME drives and seeing I coming from ps4 with 2 tb in that I payed 60$ for it will be hard sell to go to 825gb drive when a 1 tb of such drive is 150$ is most cases. Game MAY become small by 25%? if and when devs use the new stuff but ps5 also has 25% smaller drive which does not really make 25% small game any better.

lmimmfn:

Lets not forget the additional space needed to download a game before it can even be installed, i.e. PS4 requires nearly twice the space to get a game installed.

read my post on the prior page

Loobyluggs:

read my post on the prior page

Does not change the fact that is how ps4 game are made so the doublespace require install still happens. and you realize how newthe DX12 u stuff still use pc dev are still not using this alot place still use DX11 some still using even older API. ON Consoles yes they should be using the new stuff, but that isnt gona translate to well to pc ports seeing there resistance to that still, never mind the issue of gett a game built to use NVME drive on pc that using HDD/SSD for reason NVME isnt even remotely main strange storege on pc for reason. I honestly want to see how PC port are handle ps5/xbox x series are handled on pc

You guy's are forgetting is that you can store your library on an external. I currently have a 2TB WD blue SSD in a external 10Gb/s USBc connection. From a PS4 to the external I can transfer a game in like 5 minuets (100GB) an the new console should have faster USB.

Loobyluggs:

If the game uses DX12U, and the studio knows what they are doing with DX12U, storage on the new consoles is a non-troversy. No more LODS, no more normal maps, no more light maps, no more shadow maps. Games on the new consoles will take less space, but, only if the studio knows what they are doing. CoD, for example, is not produced by a company that knows wtf they are doing with compression, or even, DX12U, so - no surprises that game is more than 9,000 jiggawatts to install. Muppets...they built a new(ish) engine for that game, and, still use baked in every-god-damn-thing, so that their cruddy engine runs at a reasonable FPS rate. REAL-TIME lighting does not need baking people. Nothing to see here, move on.

Does that even work? Going by the Spider Man ray-tracing demonstration the reflections use LOD tricks and all sorts of things (Removing shadow casters on objects for another.) likely to maintain performance and that's one effect at a real-time performance level so replacing the entire rendering model with ray-tracing seems like it's at least a few generations from being feasible even with various trickery to achieve reasonable real-time performance. Even with upscaling 3840x2160 and then HDR (Bandwidth here.) and now up to 7680x4320 support is going to be demanding though I would expect games to initially keep at around 3840x2160 with various checkerboard or upscale modes. Demons Souls remake was about 60 GB I think, Miles Morales Spider Man was similar though the remastered original is a bit smaller compared to those. OS and system stuff, hibernation/sleep functionality and yeah that 800 GB usable drive losing some 100 GB same as the Series One X (SOX?) does and then whatever add-on drives will be supported since the internal is soldered and non-replaceable. (And hopefully fairly durable.) Or a USB 3.1 HDD (Full Gen2 speed support?) for offloading though I think both consoles requires the SSD either primary or add-in to actually play content from. (And the time needed to shift data around.) Few more years of tech advancement though and some of the fakery and extras could be dialed down and improved, storage improvement here might slowly remove extra data and over time hopefully lead to meaningful usage of file compression and formats that allow CPU and IO/SSD to work in full for textures or other assets while having good compression ratio. (Think that's what RAD - of RAD Video / BIK was working on with good results in testing so far.) But until then 60 - 80 or even 100 GB games and then patches and DLC adding even more. EDIT: PS5 wasn't fully D3D12_2 compliant either was it? Some in-between of AMD's final RDNA1 -> RDNA2 GPU which is closer to what's in the Series One X hardware. So while it's not using D3D12 the GPU won't leverage features like mesh shaders and what not. But it likely has it's own stuff too and how this API works. On PC I presume Vulkan will update to support these new D3D12 features and or perhaps rather the hardware possibilities overlapping with some of the API functionality like the mesh shaders over time in the 1.3.x SDK builds eventually but probably that's a ways from finalizing initial specs and release. Particularly since D3D12_2 itself isn't happening until the first half of next year and then how support will be for that on PC over the next few years. Going to take a while though Series X might speed some of it up but console D3D12 is different from what the PC does so other than targeting higher end hardware and removing the console as the bottleneck well we'll see. (Plus PC hardware adaption and support for Win10 21H1, D3D12_U GPU, modern CPU, more RAM or a SSD in the system as additional factors for the whole lowest common denominator thing.)

JonasBeckman:

Does that even work?

Yes. If Epic Games can do it - anyone can do it.

tsunami231:

What I really want to see is how PC port go if these game are "built" using drive that NVME how the port gona be if most people are HDD/SSD NVME isnt main stream on PC for few reason, one be price never mind fact how widely availbe ins pcie 4.0 on PC? last I check we got lot MB be realeased with 3.0 still cause cpu are still using 3.0 for most part? short of most recent stuff I all for for fast speed but not if space sacrificed and not at the price of NVME drives and seeing I coming from ps4 with 2 tb in that I payed 60$ for it will be hard sell to go to 825gb drive when a 1 tb of such drive is 150$ is most cases. Game MAY become small by 25%? if and when devs use the new stuff but ps5 also has 25% smaller drive which does not really make 25% small game any better.

I reckon new games will recommended an SSD early on. Once we have DirectStorage and games are built for NVMe then I guess it will be a requirement. This won't be for a while though.

angelgraves13:

My 4TB nvme looks more and more like a great buy everyday for $750

Is it on the PS5 whitelist? V4?

Loobyluggs:

Yes. If Epic Games can do it - anyone can do it.

Epic Games could use more compression. Fortnite for example goes from 95GB to 64GB with the Windows 10 compression.

theoneofgod:

I reckon new games will recommended an SSD early on. Once we have DirectStorage and games are built for NVMe then I guess it will be a requirement. This won't be for a while though.

I don't think NVME will be requirement on PC of any time soon period. Like said they are not mainstream for reason they EXPENSIVE and most are using 3.0 on cause we really have not shifted to 4.0 pcie cause of cost and 5.0 was recently finalized no?

angelgraves13:

My 4TB nvme looks more and more like a great buy everyday for $750

You think that is great buy? 750$ for 4TB? I think that is an insane price.

tsunami231:

I don't think NVME will be requirement on PC of any time soon period. Like said they are not mainstream for reason they EXPENSIVE and most are using 3.0 on cause we really have not shifted to 4.0 pcie cause of cost and 5.0 was recently finalized no? You think that is great buy? 750$ for 4TB? I think that is an insane price.

I know.

TheDeeGee:

Epic Games could use more compression. Fortnite for example goes from 95GB to 64GB with the Windows 10 compression.

fortnite is 95GB!? i find it funny how microsoft, the one using cheap 2400mbps drives, goes for the proprietary approach to charge pcie4 top of the line pricing, whereas sony just points you to buy that directly, essentially getting your money's worth, who would've seen that coming from sony?

EspHack:

fortnite is 95GB!? i find it funny how microsoft, the one using cheap 2400mbps drives, goes for the proprietary approach to charge pcie4 top of the line pricing, whereas sony just points you to buy that directly, essentially getting your money's worth, who would've seen that coming from sony?

You talking about this? $220 for the privilege of expanding your storage...Gurus? [ninjaedit:]

TheDeeGee:

Epic Games could use more compression. Fortnite for example goes from 95GB to 64GB with the Windows 10 compression.

That, was not compression/authored on the UE5 engine, or, for the PS5/xboxairpurifiertrashcan. UE4 does not have what it needs to do what I'm suggesting, to make the crunch awesome enough...it has a lot, but not the ability to use 0LOD models and animating for rendering, so, it still uses shadow/light/normal maps, fully baked in and on your hard drive, taking up space, drinking your beer, dunking your bread into your soup...and eating it up. UE4 took node-based/lua scripting/graph-based/visual scripting elements and made one of the most impressive game engines ever conceived, and then made it opensource...but, it doesn't have what UE5 will have...and I am truly giddy about UE5 as you can tell 🙂

angelgraves13:

Not to me...I have 94 games installed on Steam with 1TB to spare.

Dont mistake worth it for just wanting it or have the money lying around cause that is almost as insane of price as the $200+ MS wanted for 1TB expansion drive. NVME in no was is cheap and imo was bad idea to be used in consoles. To each is there own Thats .10 to .15 per gb (NVME) .10 per gb (SSD) .5 to .6 per gb (HDD) Most people still have issue with SSD per gb price starts to add up fast

tsunami231:

Dont mistake worth it for just wanting it or have the money lying around cause that is almost as insane of price as the $200+ MS wanted for 1TB expansion drive. NVME in no was is cheap and imo was bad idea to be used in consoles. To each is there own

It would be too much to spend another decade with sub-par I/O though.

PrMinisterGR:

It would be too much to spend another decade with sub-par I/O though.

The problem is the "cost" IF cost of SSD and now NVMe were same as HDD or hell with in cent or 2 of HDD cost per gb, HDD would been phased out by now, IMO switching from HDD to SSD for every day use " OS" wise is best upgrade one can do. but cost is still to high. I might love my all SSD system but cost is not appealing. I payed 150$ back when I got Samsung 820 128 gb years how many years go? and I payed $105 for 1TB Samsung 860 evo a year and half ago with how big things are getting to install have speed at cost of space and pay huge premium for those speed is not good bargin in my eyes Devs might be able to "reduce" space requirements with DX12U stuff but that will in turn give them MORE room to play with which in turn will just make stuff bigger again

tsunami231:

The problem is the "cost" IF cost of SSD and now NVMe were same as HDD or hell with in cent or 2 of HDD cost per gb, HDD would been phased out by now, IMO switching from HDD to SSD for every day use " OS" wise is best upgrade one can do. but cost is still to high. I might love my all SSD system but cost is not appealing. I payed 150$ back when I got Samsung 820 128 gb years how many years go? and I payed $105 for 1TB Samsung 860 evo a year and half ago with how big things are getting to install have speed at cost of space and pay huge premium for those speed is not good bargin in my eyes Devs might be able to "reduce" space requirements with DX12U stuff but that will in turn give them MORE room to play with which in turn will just make stuff bigger again

Since media itself is mostly streamed and stored online, the drive only needs to cover a few games anyway. We will probably see some crazy stuff with the fidelity of assets, but I don't see it being larger than the average AAA again.