If they do take it down if it violates terms etc...then Valve are still controlling it. I just don't see how it can be a free for all with no Valve quality control/intervention when it is potentially involving taking people's money.

There would have to be some sort of oversight on the backend to ensure malware isn't being posted and presented as legitimate software....and to ensure customers aren't being robbed blind...

Well he does mention malware checking etc.. would be done, but there are so many potential issues that Valve can't just take a step back and expect it to flourish on it's own. Call me cynical but too many scammers and those whose sole existence in life is to complain about everything would turn Steam into a mess, probably ruining the experience for people who just want it to let them buy and play AAA games.

I'm trying really hard to finish that youtube video of him talking. I'm at 30min and all he's really said is stuff we've heard before: "before blah blah there was no way of knowing what people were doing with your product. Doom sold more copies than Windows, how is this possible if they don't have a marketing department, well blah blah blah we find ideas come from unexpected places and titles have no value, the janitor did the AI. Word of mouth and a quality product is the key! Userbase makes more content that is better than what we did!"

If they do take it down if it violates terms etc...then Valve are still controlling it. I just don't see how it can be a free for all with no Valve quality control/intervention when it is potentially involving taking people's money.

Right, otherwise it would be malware and porn game ridden. I'm more just saying there's a difference between a good indie game and babby's first computer game, and if they leave a lot of junk then who's going to wade through it to find the gems? So it backfires, and now having your "product" on Steam means little more than hoping someone stumbles across your website. edit Yeah I got to 42min on that video and stopped it. He starting to talk about people making real world money off of playing video games. If anything, that's signs of a broken system and something is wrong if that's even possible. And it is.

Doom sold more copies than Windows?? Which version of Doom are we referring to?

Doom sold more copies than Windows?? Which version of Doom are we referring to?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8QEOBgLBQU Start at 7mins. "Windows was the number 2 product, Doom was 1" edit I think he's referencing this: "In late 1995, Doom was estimated to be installed on more computers worldwide than Microsoft's new operating system Windows 95, despite million-dollar advertising campaigns for the latter. The game's popularity prompted Bill Gates to briefly consider buying id Software,[5] and led Microsoft to develop a Windows 95 port of Doom to promote the operating system as a gaming platform. One such presentation to promote Windows 95 had Bill Gates digitally superimposed into the game.[13] The 1995 release of Microsoft Excel 95 included a Doom-esque secret level as an Easter egg containing portraits of the programmers among other things.[14]" ~ Wikipedia

He's full of ****. He claims with over 30 million licenses sold, Windows 3.1 was #2 in software sales in 1993.....second to Doom, which had an "estimated" 10 million players....yet, sales figures put it between 1.3 million and 10 million copies sold... As of 2000....Myst, with 4.2 million confirmed sales, was ranked the #1 best selling video game of the 90's....with Doom II as #3 and Doom as #8... Source: http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Sales

Valve really needs to put out another Left 4 Dead with updated DX features. That..would be great.

Seems like he just wants to turn steam into a directory service instead of a game service, thus removing a huge load on their systems and putting it on the game companies. Steam would then have less expenses and still collect their commission giving them a nice boost in profit. This is what I see.

He's full of ****. He claims with over 30 million licenses sold, Windows 3.1 was #2 in software sales in 1993.....second to Doom, which had an "estimated" 10 million players....yet, sales figures put it between 1.3 million and 10 million copies sold... As of 2000....Myst, with 4.2 million confirmed sales, was ranked the #1 best selling video game of the 90's....with Doom II as #3 and Doom as #8... Source: http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Sales

I think he was talking about distribution not total sales. At the time they did the study he claims that Doom was being distributed more than Windows, which came out a year prior, which is believable in my opinion. --- I also don't get the hate people have for Valve's stance on opening it up. It's pretty standard now in days to have systems in place for filtering content at a high level. If you want to buy standard level software and games it will be readily available. But if joe-smoe down the street has a good idea and some programming skills, I don't see why there should be a barrier of entry for him to get his game published. Currently the only option for most indie devs is to run kickstarters in order to drive up support and show off a product. After that they are on their own to build their website and distribute their game as they see fit. It would be much to their advantage if they were just able to do all of that through steam, or even competing products. Plus I'd rather Valve do what they do best and try things. I can't even tell you the number of people who claimed steam would fail when it first launched. Now it's like the mecca of PC gaming to most. I personally refuse to buy most games unless they are available through steam as I value the level of convenience it provides.

For me it seems that Gabe has totally lost focus. First Steam Box with all the nonsense "we think all game controllers are bad but we don't have a better idea" (lolled) and then this right after... They are just trying to do Google and force themselves between end users and businesses instead of doing something that would benefit people like they once did.

I don't understand how you can possibly infer that Valve has stopped benefiting people? I mean the whole idea of the steam box is to get a entry level, low cost product that can spur some innovation in PC games hopefully with people afraid to bridge that gap. Most people I know that play console games don't want to shell out $1500+ for a gaming PC that sits in the corner of their room. They want sub $1000 devices that they can come home, slack in their couch and play some games easily.

The current model works in my opinion. Just improvements to mod support and so on is needed but otherwise the business model is ok as is. They should just focus on making Steam better and stop having these nonsense ideas. Also get back into making great games and easy-to-mod engines.

Everyone and their mother thought steam was a nonsense idea when it launched. And Valve is still developing great games. Portal 2 was excellent. Dota 2 and the features Valve is working into it is making waves in pro-gaming scene. Half Life 3 and a new engine to go with it is probably in the works, but Valve doesn't work on set schedules. It launches when the team behind it feels like launching it. I'd much rather this then getting games like Diablo 3.

He's full of ****. He claims with over 30 million licenses sold, Windows 3.1 was #2 in software sales in 1993.....second to Doom, which had an "estimated" 10 million players....yet, sales figures put it between 1.3 million and 10 million copies sold... As of 2000....Myst, with 4.2 million confirmed sales, was ranked the #1 best selling video game of the 90's....with Doom II as #3 and Doom as #8... Source: http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Sales

Even if he's wrong, and I don't know that he is, he didn't say sales, how does it fundamentally alter his point? His point was that a 12 man crew was rivaling (or beating) a huge corporation that sells the operating systems for PCs in the nation in distributing their game. What about what you said changes that? The lesson he learned from it, the ideas it spurred allowed him to create a gigantic company and gave him insights others wouldn't have for a decade or more.

"Windows was the #2 product. The #1 product was Doom".... Strange that in best case scenario Windows outsold Doom 3-1 and better than 27-1, worst case. His statement that "Windows was the #2 product. The #1 product was Doom" was supposedly based on a case study done by MS. But, if Doom only sold 1.1 million to 10 million copies, and as of 1993 was not even the #1 game in terms of sales.....how exactly was it "The #1 product"?? He claims his information is based on usage studies....and sales figures say he's lying. He's claiming that more than 30 million people were playing Doom.... So, either sales made up only 33% of "usage" (and the remaining % were pirated)....or he's lying his ass off.... My guess is that he's lying... My issue with Newell's idea for "opening it up"....is that I don't want Valve's software (or API) on my computer. Valve wants to shove their **** down people's throats (you know, like he claims MS is doing with Windows Marketplace). Maybe if he went the "web-based" route, I'd be a bit more open to the idea, but I refuse to have Steam or any related (but completely unnecessary) API on my computer. It's not about making things easier for users or developers....it's about his need for control of a market he's scared of having to compete for.

"Windows was the #2 product. The #1 product was Doom".... Strange that in best case scenario Windows outsold Doom 3-1 and better than 27-1, worst case. His statement that "Windows was the #2 product. The #1 product was Doom" was supposedly based on a case study done by MS. But, if Doom only sold 1.1 million to 10 million copies, and as of 1993 was not even the #1 game in terms of sales.....how exactly was it "The #1 product"?? He claims his information is based on usage studies....and sales figures say he's lying. He's claiming that more than 30 million people were playing Doom.... So, either sales made up only 33% of "usage" (and the remaining % were pirated)....or he's lying his ass off.... My guess is that he's lying... My issue with Newell's idea for "opening it up"....is that I don't want Valve's software (or API) on my computer. Valve wants to shove their **** down people's throats (you know, like he claims MS is doing with Windows Marketplace). Maybe if he went the "web-based" route, I'd be a bit more open to the idea, but I refuse to have Steam or any related (but completely unnecessary) API on my computer. It's not about making things easier for users or developers....it's about his need for control of a market he's scared of having to compete for.

First of all, you're being dishonest, and you're somehow blinded with whatever this is for no reason. He didn't say at any point that they had sold more copies. There were shareware versions of doom, there were demos containing only the first level. Think about it, this is what triggered an "aha" moment in Gabe, and in the context of what he was talking about in the video, makes perfect sense. Early digital distribution. This wasn't an entire game, but a level, and it being available and free allowed people to share it. Instead of requiring a huge marketing team to sell copies to an intermediary (like Wal-Mart), who then have to the customer...suddenly you can simply post the games for sale, direct to the customer, and cut out every middle man involved, with a much smaller team and therefore larger margins. This further plugs into the crowdsourcing strategy by giving the ability to sell games to essentially anyone. This takes almost all the distribution costs away, certainly the sales costs, and lets those who love the games sell the games. Anyway, as I pointed out, and you failed to acknowledge, even if he is wrong, even if Doom was #2 and Windows was #1...What does that materially change? Still showcases the powerful distribution ideas he has and continues to implement. Still shows he "got" what they were trying to do (though the technology wasn't there at the time). To sum up the entire thing, Doom was as huge, with that small of a team, because they leveraged their fans to do large parts of their distribution and marketing. Gabe wants to implement some of those ideas on a larger scale.

I'm being dishonest? I'm following his statement....and pointing out publicly available information that suggests his claims are false.... How exactly is that being dishonest? I don't see him as the patron saint of the gaming industry as you obviously do. I see him as the scared, greedy, loud mouth CEO that he is.

Guys, again "In late 1995, Doom was estimated to be installed on more computers worldwide than Microsoft's new operating system Windows 95". There's even a video with Bill Gates "digitally superimposed into the game" where he's trying to pitch 95 as a gaming OS. If Gabe's referencing that he is technically right. Regardless, no one can deny the point Gabe's making, it's obviously true. If it weren't, Steam wouldn't be selling Doom right now ironically. I still agree though that he's a "scared, greedy, loud mouth CEO" for sure, and Steam obviously isn't the only hope for a indie game to achieve success. For example, look at Minecraft which does more than fine without it. If anything Steam is a "middle man".

I'm being dishonest? I'm following his statement....and pointing out publicly available information that suggests his claims are false.... How exactly is that being dishonest? I don't see him as the patron saint of the gaming industry as you obviously do. I see him as the scared, greedy, loud mouth CEO that he is.

You're ignoring everything I say; you're responding to nothing. It's intellectually dishonest to call him a liar based solely on sales numbers when he never claimed that. You know that. You know what you're doing here. So now that we know what you're blinded by, I'll give you another shot. The man claimed that id was able to distribute Doom, a PC game, better than Microsoft was able to distribute Windows, an operating system. Microsoft was a giant corporation even at the time with a huge workforce and big channels with big retailers/OEMs. id was less than two dozen. id didn't market Doom in stores. Doom was distributed as shareware and then, if purchased, mailed to the consumer. Did you know that? I'm getting the sense you didn't know that. It would be impossible to tell how many computers it was truly on. Even assuming we go with direct sales figures, which Gabe never quoted, you're still looking at something like 1/3 the sales from a much smaller team, for a product that is considerably less needed than an OS. Even if it's 1/10th or 1/20th, what game comes so close today? Microsoft OS versions sell upwards of 500 million copies. W7 was over 700 million. The best selling games manage, what, 30 million? Not even close. And gaming was a much smaller industry then. So, even if we assume he's wrong, and he's not, how does it fundamentally change his point that id software was onto something with their distribution method? If you can't, after being asked three times, answer what I've bolded, then you've shown you have no desire for a real discussion, and just want to blindly hate on an executive for personal reasons, in which case I'm not interested in continuing it.

If you can't, after being asked three times, answer what I've bolded, then you've shown you have no desire for a real discussion, and just want to blindly hate on an executive for personal reasons, in which case I'm not interested in continuing it.

Well going back to the thankfully dead Win8 thread, I think that's just the way sykozis ticks, which is I think the dude just can't look beyond something over face value sometimes. I don't think of him as stupid or "no desire for a real discussion, and just want to blindly hate on an executive for personal reasons". Inb4 you call him a Troll. also you guys haven't brought up how FAT Gabe is still.

If only this could kill Origin.... I'd be so happy