^^^Yeap, BL2 did it the right way, the problem now is they are altering core game machanics to basically force gamers down the spending real cash route by making the grind just unpalatable, and that is quite a shoddy practice to say the least, that and having this same mechanic in child rated games as EA just did with SWBF2.

Well, I'll just add my 2 cents in regards to SWBF2... I have almost 300 hours /played and still launch it every day for a round or two. If it wasn't for the messed up progression being integrated in the lootcrate system, the actual game would have been far better received. For me at least, it was very enjoyable even like this. Starfighter Assault specifically was a dream come true and it still is my favorite game mode. Second would be some of the big Galactic Assault maps, all of them very well done in regards to fidelity with the movies. This change is welcome, but too late for the majority of people. Not to mention that players like me who grinded out loads of epic star cards will have a big advantage over any new player... but I guess that's more how it should be. I'm looking forward to spend my credit hoard on the new crates or whatever the method of buying skins will end up to be (provided it's not exclusively real money). However, I'm more curious how EA will handle future games like the next Battlefield, since they talked about the removal of premium passes. But since this was before the failure with SWBF2 lootcrate system, I would not be surprised if premium would return and that for me would be truly bad news, since I'm sick and tired of the playerbase split that happened with every premium pass MP game.

The Laughing Ma:

No they are not supported by Valve but by the same measure Valve has done nothing to stop them despite stating any number of times that they intended too, end of the day Valve may not get the money from the sites directly but they do get some money as a result of them through other indirect means which no doubt goes a long way to explain why they keep saying they will do something about them but actually never do... then again this is Valve who constantly say they will do stuff and never do so I am guessing no changes there then.

Just to be devil's advocate, Valve may have attempted to stop them, and it wouldn't surprise me if they [still] disapprove of these sites. However, as in many situations with sketchy websites, controlling them is out of the company's jurisdiction. This is why, for example, piracy is so difficult to curb.

The issue though is not that their are MTs in the game (it's still a premium game that you pay money up front for so shouldn't have ANY MTs in it but that's another topic) it is that the MTs are lootboxes, you pay a non fixed fee (just look at some of the prices for limited edition lootboxes in the game) and you are given a chance to win a skin that through reasons I can only explain as 'artificial scarcity' could be worth a huge amount of money to someone stupid enough to pay for it. It's a form of gambling like every other lootbox and as I said while everyone else seemed to be getting huge amounts of sh*t for it last year Valve somehow managed to stay under the radar, despite being one of the first companies to introduce the system.

Wait.... they're just skins? That's all CSGO's lootboxes are for? Why is this so troubling to you? If it doesn't affect your ability to play the game, it's a moot point. If people want to waste their money gambling on skins, it's nobody's problem but their own for buying into something so frivolous. Sure, I would much rather be able to buy the skins directly (actually no what am I talking about, I'd much rather they all be free with the game), but if this is the approach Valve took and people are paying for it anyway, I have a real hard time saying they're doing anything wrong here. It's hardly addictive; it's just vanity.

You want to see a lootbox system done right? Look at Borderlands, the core mechanic was about lootboxes and they were ALL provided in game from the initial purchase price, you had one additional lootbox in BL2 that could be opened with golden keys that were obtained through media releases but as far as I am aware you were never able to pay real world money to get access to one of these golden keys (feel free to correct me if iam wrong on that fact)

I totally agree. To clarify, I'm not saying I'm in favor of what Valve is doing (especially considering I wasn't exactly sure how their MTs worked), my point is some MTs are objectively worse than others. When you go to a slot machine, you get a rush when you win because you have more money than you left with. A lot of people have a positive association when getting money. It's easy to get addicted when money just pours from a machine by doing nothing but pulling a lever. When you gamble with SWBF2's lootboxes, you are sometimes getting something that improves your abilities in the game, and possibly unlocking something new you haven't tried before. Both winning matches more often and experiencing new things feels good, which in turn becomes addictive. Sometimes, it's not even a matter of addiction - as others have stated, SWBF2's lootboxes are almost a necessity. But if every lootbox offers nothing but superficial differences, there's nothing especially addictive about it, and players don't feel obligated to get them.

So, let's see if I understand. Fact: you can no longer pay for game progression and I have to go through a linear grind to catch up to the pay to win kiddies. Reality: kiddies get to keep all their bought successes and will retain an unfair advantage for a long period of time. Fact: They "fixed" the game, w/o account resets so everyone gets to keep all their purchased loots. Reality: This has got to be the best business decision ever for encouraging new participants. All in all, anyone who bought their BF2 progression basically get god accounts going forward. Really a great deal if you think about it, not so great if you were considering to buy the game. It's interesting how EA has spent quite a bit of resources to try to change the perception this singular product has achieved. Specially for a company that's knowing for hanging out studios and IPs to dry. Even if EA turns BF2 into the best game on earth, none of it will matter until they own their errors and start with a clean sale. Wipe all accounts, refund loot boxes and go forward from there. I'm really surprised Disney got into be with EA. Third times the charm in 2 years?

ust to be devil's advocate, Valve may have attempted to stop them, and it wouldn't surprise me if they [still] disapprove of these sites. However, as in many situations with sketchy websites, controlling them is out of the company's jurisdiction. This is why, for example, piracy is so difficult to curb.

I would have to look in to the technical aspects of how products purchased on Steam can then be transferred to and from the websites to allow others to sell them but I am sure if Valve really wanted to they could lock down the lootboxes so that they could ONLY be purchased through Steam.

Wait.... they're just skins? That's all CSGO's lootboxes are for? Why is this so troubling to you?

They aren't an issue to me personally but end of the day they are a gambling mechanic, the reward and how it interacts with the game itself is irrelevant, they are designed to appeal to individuals who have addictive or compulsive personalities so as such lootboxes are by their nature predatory. The fact that you don't see them as addictive just means that you are one of the luck folk that can take and leave their inclusion, I too am lucky enough to not feel the need to buy in to this lootbox nonsense but their are many people who do, some will do it once or twice some will do it more often and their are the ones that these companies really hope to hook, the whales, who either can't help themselves or have personalities that compel them to buy in to this kind of activity and that is why I have an issue with it, or more specifically the reason I have an issue with it is because it is utterly unregulated, any other form of gambling is regulated, their are variables and odds that are fairly consistent and can be calculated mathematically by any one who cares too, of course chance and luck plays a part but lootboxes can be set up by a company to NEVER pay out. You could pay endless amounts of cash in the hope of winning on a system that has been set to NEVER let you win and since their is no regulation their is no requirement for these companies to say what the real odds of winning are. On top of all this is the fact that game companies are now designing and compromising, and yes they are compromising their games, to include these lootboxes. SWBF2 and Shadow of War are two such examples in which the game play loop was artificially lengthened and made deliberately less fun or grindy with the express goal of trying to get players to spend real world cash, not on a straight shot win that would assist on getting further in the game but on an RNG factor that MAY give you something that might have helped you skip the grind. I have no issue with lootboxes that can be earned ONLY through in game processes, lootboxes that have been designed to work in tandem with the gameplay provided in the game, as I stated Borderlands showed just how perfectly this system can be implemented, but paid for lootboxes, be they skins, weapons or in game pay to win mechanics are a cancer and they need to be cut out and that is why Shadow of War is the last game I will ever buy that includes paid for lootboxes.

It's interesting how EA has spent quite a bit of resources to try to change the perception this singular product has achieved.

EA heard this guy was coming for them so I suspect that had a lot to do with them trying to fix this debacle http://31.media.tumblr.com/4d02a3efb83d5ba5af6c3fad00e4e9db/tumblr_mz93hgzxLb1s2wio8o1_500.gif