vbetts:

Not sure how they're behind, for products that match the 1080 and 1070 and lower they have them. They never had anything to compete with the 1080 ti, and nothing at all with new generation of Turing.

because at this point, 2070 is ~1080/Ti speed, and there are two nV cards above it. Sooo....they will have to make a card that uses <250W (not 400W, 350W) and is around that speed and price. So they are already behind, twice. Mining craze saved them tbh. but that is over.

FrostNixon:

Sad to say, but chances of catching up with the high-end in the next 3 years is most likely none. They are too far behind already.

I've read almost the same before Zen came up 😀 Well, we'll see

Fox2232:

People now think that mainstream is $500, high-end $800 and enthusiast $1200. And only those people who supported this shift are to blame.

I still remember when I bought a 9800GTX for 330€ and it was enthusiast grade...I so regret having bough that card today.

FrostNixon:

Sad to say, but chances of catching up with the high-end in the next 3 years is most likely none. They are too far behind already. However catching up with the RTX 2070 with a budget GPU which doesn't use twice the power is what I am looking for and hopefully we will have that next year.

What would you say about Ryzen then? Wasn't AMD too far behind Intel? Development takes time and money, AMD had to make sacrifices along the way and now it's starting to rise up. There is a good change Navi could bring something new to the table, let's hope AMD made the right decisions.

sfdmalex:

I think it's primarily consumers and cheap credit, or rather availability of credit. You would be surprised how much the younger generation is willing to spend on things some older folks would never imagine. People started to believe that just because they have the "ability" to buy certain things they can afford them. But it's ok, a global credit crunch is under way so things will change and people will have a lot less money to spend and prices will have to adjust. People are blowing 1200$ on phones and on GPUs. I head an IT department at work and there are quite a few kids here at work in junior support positions who buy the latest gear with borrowed money because I know what their paychecks are. I would never imagine spending a month's pay on a video card, but many people do.

I have exactly the same opinion. People don't buy stuff with their own money anymore and that creates a bubble. When those people can't pay up their debts and the bubble bursts, we all get fucked. Meanwhile, because people don't stop to think about the consequences of their actions, prices keep rising. A phone that has 200€ of hardware in it costing 1200€ to buy is just a big no.

Vega on 7nm might actually be competitive if AMD made it a large die and since it was for professional use it should be a fairly large die. Big issue with Vega was power and frequency and it is possible the new 7nm node helps a lot on that front(pure speculation). Early 2019 release Navi for mid to low end then later 2019 a large die Navi. This makes the most since if you are going to compete Nvidia. There is no way Nvidia is coming out with 7nm RTX for at least 6-9 months so AMD should pounce on that since they were going to have a large die Vega for profesional/compute anyhow. Guess we shall see soon enough what they are planning.

so many gamers here that do not understand how manufacturing technology works or progresses. and that's o.k. because a everyone has gaps in the information they accumulate. but please, just as i don't pop off on games i know nothing about, or that i suck at, don't disrespect your peers who do know about the actual technology from more than just using it. and because most of us are in some way competitive, it's easy to break down into "team green and team red". that's just a waste of time and digital breath. reality: over 50% of Intel's income comes from datacenters and not desktop or oem. and that market is bursting at the seams with outdated Intel hardware that uses too much power and has too few cores. this is important as the world is dealing with carbon emissions, and on a datacenter scale AMD offers not only superior performance, but tons fewer carbon emissions over the course of its lifetime. and oh yeah, 7nm is here...and even the humble Polaris architecture would beat a gtx 1070 at 7nm. again i must mention scalability of design that is a unifying feature of AMD architecture. 100% scalable designs brought us Ryzen, Epyc, and Threadripper. do not think for a second that AMD is a one-trick pony.

tunejunky Not at all, I think AMD's current lineup is actually more interesting for the server/workstation market then it is for gamers.

Corrupt^:

tunejunky Not at all, I think AMD's current lineup is actually more interesting for the server/workstation market then it is for gamers.

Same here. AMD's 7nm Epyc is going to make them so much money if they deliver it soon and it is as good as expected. This chip should put Intel at a disadvantage at both power and performance which is crazy if it end up being the case. If this works out AMD is back in the CPU race for the long haul.

@Silva and @Fox2232 After the 2008 crash I started saving every penny and ended up paying my house, cars and loans off. I can tell you being 100% debt free is pretty damn great and the younger generation should try it. You think you have disposable income, just wait until you have virtually no bills to pay each month. Also there is something really nice when you think oh I could get laid off/fired and you are like well I have 5 years to find a job. I think you are right, I have this talk with people saying it's not what you make it's what you keep but most people think I'm crazy and are in debt up to the wazoo.

FrostNixon:

Sad to say, but chances of catching up with the high-end in the next 3 years is most likely none. They are too far behind already. However catching up with the RTX 2070 with a budget GPU which doesn't use twice the power is what I am looking for and hopefully we will have that next year.

I see a viable (and unlikely) option to catch and even surpass Nvidia in high end: proper Crossfire support. With Nvidia reserving SLI only for the 2080 cards that leaves them wide open for a cheap Crossfire setup like 2 RX590 or 2 Vega56 and so on. I believe that AMD is going to "get" Nvidia the same way they got Intel, by selling simpler and cheaper hardware that stacks in numbers against raw power.

H83:

I see a viable (and unlikely) option to catch and even surpass Nvidia in high end: proper Crossfire support. With Nvidia reserving SLI only for the 2080 cards that leaves them wide open for a cheap Crossfire setup like 2 RX590 or 2 Vega56 and so on. I believe that AMD is going to "get" Nvidia the same way they got Intel, by selling simpler and cheaper hardware that stacks in numbers against raw power.

I wanted to write something, but gave up on that because it seems that your logic is infallible, from your perspective.

looking at how they tackled the cpu market and how vega performs under lower voltages I wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing them scale out with more chips on each card.

I wouldn't buy nVidia, will happily pick up a 2nd hand Vega 64/56 when I have the moolah for it.

Fox2232:

Tell that to China... Biggest enabler to Chinese debt for general population is one of our companies in Czech Republic. And yes, in here it is popular as hell. Hard to understand that imbecile who thought that economical growth will be stimulated by "buying" something you'll be paying back next few years. Before this system became wide spread infestation, people actually had money. Now they have debt instead.

Are you telling me I´m "actually" rich?, i feel like I do not earn enough money, but i try to enforce myself to save at least 50% of my salary. So i have lets say some months of payment saved just for the sake of "convenience", I like to pay everything in one exhibit (no bs of monthly payment for 12/24/48 months... da heck?). Took me 10 months of saving of my previous job to assemble most of my actual PC, even though i bought used parts, GPU 175 USD and 580 8GB, and strix 370-f 115 USD (supposedly new, open box, aka used but hope the buyers does not notice). Yeah cannot agree more with you seeing my younger (5-10 year MAXIMUM) going into debt for dumb stuff like smartphones because LUL I dropped it 😕 just after 2 weeks and I´m still paying for it? and they are single, not paying rent or other home services by themselves, i do not either but again i rather save that money. Sad times indeed and i just hope everything goes to hell fast and steady, so people will react once and for all, not only within the tech world but overall everything economic related, unbelievable how in a decade in my country we went from paying 3.5 money units (let´s call it that way ok) for using a public transport one way ticket, to 12 money units for exact same trip, what is that? 340% inflation. Well moving to more friendly techy topic, I hope AMD can, if not pass, at least get super close to the competition in terms of price - performance ratio, I will not stop buygin exclusively AMD product, and not because I´m a fanboy (such disgusting, retarded and, overused term, so tired of it) but because you know, someone has to be the counterweight in all this mess, and just people not shortsighted can actually understand the severe implication of some buyer being careless with dumb statements like "I just buy the best" and suchs, i do not mind paying a little less for not having the best, but I´m hoping for them to stay in the market for the sake of competition, that is not just but a good practice that will benefit all of us. Go get them AMD, pull a ryzen gpu edition move and let everybody rejoice of a competitive market. Edit: (i think one "exhibit payment" is not even a phrase in english, but i just directly translated since we say "pago en una exhibición" like "i saw it, i want it" sorry for ban englando frieds)

If AMD makes something around 1080ti/2080rtx it's enough, all they need is a strong hardware RTX unit and nvidia is toast.. Imagine with RTX on at 2880x1620P resolution with 60fps+.. nvidia Turing would be like, wuuut?!

gx-x:

because at this point, 2070 is ~1080/Ti speed, and there are two nV cards above it. Sooo....they will have to make a card that uses <250W (not 400W, 350W) and is around that speed and price. So they are already behind, twice. Mining craze saved them tbh. but that is over.

You can't really compare Turing to Vega, Turing is a new generation of GPU. Really aside from their CPU's, the main selling point for Vega is freesync.

If AMD were to have a strong card it would keep Ngreedia in check and prices would fall! So even if Intel can make something it will be in all our favor.

I sure hope AMD do bring something to the table that can compete with nvidia's cards. Nvidia needs to be smacked the f*** down by some rival products so that they're forced to lower their absurd prices to a reasonable level.

intel is also coming to the battle, the high end GPU scene might get even more interesting than the current intel/ryzen wonderfulness we enjoy today

Well, Navi supposedly performs better than many expected. I think they can pull it off again..Not sure I have a reason to upgrade yet though, I want a solid efficient 150-200w card.

AMD, gimme 2080Ti performance for 800-900€ plox.