AMD only rising the clock another chrap probably downclocking to 3.2 will be slower than a PX6 mine 3770k @ 4.6ghz still much faster

They haven't released the specs or benchmarks yet so you don't know that...

Could be either cherry-picked FX-8350s or a new chip, hopefully the latter.

Well they say it's Pile o' Bull based, so even if it is a "new" chip, not much at all will be changed, it will still be a joke in any program that's not insanely multithreaded (i.e. everything except esoteric programs) and at 5GHz is still beaten out by an OC'd i7... of any generation.

Well they say it's Pile o' Bull based, so even if it is a "new" chip, not much at all will be changed, it will still be a joke in any program that's not insanely multithreaded (i.e. everything except esoteric programs) and at 5GHz is still beaten out by an OC'd i7... of any generation.

Can you clarify.What is wrong with the Bulldozer design? I just thought I ask,since you are running an AMD 6970.

Bulldozer is crap, everyone knows that.

Can you clarify.What is wrong with the Bulldozer design? I just thought I ask,since you are running an AMD 6970.

It says it will be based on Piledriver which is a bit improved. The 6970 is a GPU, it's unrelated to their CPUs. There are too many things wrong with the architecture for me to list, honestly more than I remember. Essentially the cores in the Bull/Pile lines are not full cores but share parts/resources, the end result is that it has incredibly weak performance per thread. The entire architecture is seemingly designed to aim for high clocks at the cost of performance per clock. Clock for clock the original Bulldozer was actually behind their old K10 architecture. Piledriver isn't much of an improvement. The majority of programs still appear to be dual and single threaded. The next time you see your CPU listed at 12% usage, that means a program is actually maxing out a single core/thread and the time slices are being distributed among the 8 pseudo cores (12.5% each). A bottleneck... and not everyone realizes it is. Edit: Someone post an article explaining the BD architecture for him, I don't remember which was a good one.

The issue with the AMD architecture is just poor single threaded performance. Which can be a problem if you are running productivity software or really old games (or games that aren't properly threaded). However, if you use any modern web browser, play new games built on well threaded engines or like me, running many VMs and security tools, the Piledriver is still a good choice. Tons of Intel fanboys will pile on me saying otherwise but there's no way to convince them. Honestly, I think both Ivy Bridge and Piledriver are great CPUs. Bulldozer was subpar as others have listed, it didn't help that most reviews out there comes from launch day when most operating systems did not know how to handle Bulldozer's CMT threads so they were being treated as K10s in many operating system, Windows and Linux included. The Linux community quickly patched the thread scheduler and then Microsoft added a hotfix that patches and then improved the scheduler in Windows 8 with CMT in mind. Piledriver brought ~15% performance increase without adding power consumption usage and with Steamroller around the corner, the independent integer schedulers, it would greatly increase performance compared to Piledriver. Both Bulldozer and Piledriver had to share integer schedulers and that proved costly in terms of performance. EDIT: Plus, Steamroller is going to be shifted to a half-node like all other AMD processors going forward and will be built on the 28nm process, the same process of their current GPUs. This will be beneficial as it lowers power consumption and allow them to utilize TSMC if they can't get their wafers from GlobalFoundries (née AMD's former foundry division). deltatux

That greatly overstates the capabilities of Piledriver. IIRC 15% would be in ideal situations which don't really occur often. And the scheduling improvement only resulted in an average increase in performance of 1%. Only in unusual situations such as the one we discussed of the FPU being a bottleneck for AVX instructions while two cores are stressed would it make a notable difference. I'm still quite certain of what I said in that other thread, AMD are not going to be able to increase their clock for clock or overall per-thread performance to an adequate level to compete with Intel especially when overclocking is taken into consideration. And to compound that problem the majority of programs being pumped out appear to still be single and dual threaded. Our only hope is that the new consoles will shift games towards 8 threads assuming Jaguar has 8.

Ok I am getting a little confused now.The 8350 is called Vishera,what architecture is it based on? BTW I mentioned the 6970 because,it seemed to me AMD as a whole was being bashed on.

Vishera CPUs are Bulldozer based. It's not bashing, it's a sad truth, the single threaded performance of even the latest AMD CPUs is abysmal. As for their GPUs, don't get me started on that, AMD took literally a full year, closer to 13 months actually, to release working drivers for the 6900 series. Everything prior resulted in crashes and the occasional BSoD. Edit: That's after the release of the 6900 series, so they actually had far more than 13 months to get the drivers right. There's still problems but those will never be resolved, they've moved onto the 7000 series. None of the latest improvements apply to the 6900 series.

Vishera CPUs are Bulldozer based. It's not bashing, it's a sad truth, the single threaded performance of even the latest AMD CPUs is abysmal. As for their GPUs, don't get me started on that, AMD took literally a full year, closer to 13 months actually, to release working drivers for the 6900 series. Everything prior resulted in crashes and the occasional BSoD. Edit: That's after the release of the 6900 series, so they actually had far more than 13 months to get the drivers right. There's still problems but those will never be resolved, they've moved onto the 7000 series. None of the latest improvements apply to the 6900 series.

So which ones are Piledriver? According to reviews on the 8350,these are Piledriver based.

So which ones are Piledriver? According to reviews on the 8350,these are Piledriver based.

Vishera is the code name for the second gen FX CPU. Piledriver is the code name for the architecture which is based off the Bulldozer architecture with some improvements.

Yeah I made mistake I did a quick search to check and I didn't pay attention. It was written as Vishera being updated Bulldozer, I assumed that meant still Bulldozer and not Piledriver. The 8150 was the original Bulldozer IIRC now. I don't keep track of their processor code names, or even Intel's much for that matter. Making such a plain mistake doesn't lend credit to what I was saying but just look up some reviews that go into detail if you want to verify anything I'm saying. I'm sure there have to be some Anandtech ones which do so.

I have built numerous systems ranging from low i3's to i7's and AMD 6xxx and 83xx Cpus with Gpu's from 50-100buck ones to multi-thousand ones(quadro/sli 690). Great systems overall and each to their own. I like'em both. Whatever suits the situation/customers. Some like AMD, some Intel, some both and some neither(lol). We all(well most of us) know the ups/downs of each Cpu/Architecture so it's each to their own again.

The issue with the AMD architecture is just poor single threaded performance. Which can be a problem if you are running productivity software or really old games (or games that aren't properly threaded).

Not only old games but I got min 51 fps (end of part 1 - from few to most people) at 720x480 on Resident Evil 6 benchmark running Win XP x86 SP3 with i5-2500K@4.5GHz and GTX 480. 🙂

I would wait for Steamroller before releasing such a CPU. While Piledriver architecture is decent, Steamroller looks much better.

I would wait for Steamroller before releasing such a CPU. While Piledriver architecture is decent, Steamroller looks much better.

Do you have any sites that discuss the Steamroller?

Vishera CPUs are Bulldozer based. It's not bashing, it's a sad truth, the single threaded performance of even the latest AMD CPUs is abysmal. As for their GPUs, don't get me started on that, AMD took literally a full year, closer to 13 months actually, to release working drivers for the 6900 series. Everything prior resulted in crashes and the occasional BSoD. Edit: That's after the release of the 6900 series, so they actually had far more than 13 months to get the drivers right. There's still problems but those will never be resolved, they've moved onto the 7000 series. None of the latest improvements apply to the 6900 series.

AMD has done this for a long time. I remember owning a 4000 series card and then just getting a stream of garbage as "support" as soon as the 5000 series released.

I would wait for Steamroller before releasing such a CPU. While Piledriver architecture is decent, Steamroller looks much better.

^when steamroller would come for desktop ? Any approximate date?

Do you have any sites that discuss the Steamroller?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6201/amd-details-its-3rd-gen-steamroller-architecture

Not only old games but I got min 51 fps (end of part 1 - from few to most people) at 720x480 on Resident Evil 6 benchmark running Win XP x86 SP3 with i5-2500K@4.5GHz and GTX 480. 🙂

720x480... lol that's pretty low res

720x480... lol that's pretty low res

low resolution is for CPU stress but GTX 480 got almost 95-99% GPU usage despite low resolution. :P 😀