HardwareCaps:

these are all rumors, we need to see 7nm Vega before we see 7nm Navi aren't we? 7nm Vega is not ready yet and its the end of 2018, are you saying AMD is going to release 7nm consumer GPUs by march???? who is going to make them Global? oh wait they said they won't do 7nm. TSMC already has multiple lines including Zen 2. another bullshit from the users here. just like ppl told me there's no way nvidia is gonna release a "12nm" card it has to be 7nm..... Reality

Again... do the research. You keep questioning me about things based on outdated roadmaps and the way Nvidia does things, both of which are not fit for this discussion. I'm not just pulling numbers out of nowhere. 7nm Vega is also predicted to launch early 2019. Like I said before, consumer-level products tend to be cut-down versions of enterprise ones, and release within the same year. AMD traditionally doesn't do much to differentiate their consumer level products from pro products, so what exactly are you expecting will cause such a long delay? Keep in mind, there's no reason AMD couldn't be working on both architectures in parallel. Also, where are you getting March from? Q1 (which is not specifically March) is considered an early estimate, but, still an estimate that I did not make myself. Meanwhile, what evidence do you have that TSMC can't keep up with the load? Let's face it, these GPUs probably aren't going to be that popular. All that being said, you might want to be careful about what you label as BS, because so far you're arguing with old information and your own personal speculation, and as far as I'm concerned, you are not a professional in this kind of stuff. And no, I'm not saying I am either, but I'm not the one making claims here.

HardwareCaps:

let me show you reality: 1. Vega failed, while Nvidia focused on maximizing GDDR tech, AMD went for HBM which turned out to be too expensive and too hard to mass-produce 2. Raja which basically was behind the whole graphics division(RTG) of AMD left, meaning AMD needs to re-establish its own graphics division 3. AMD stated they are focusing AI tech FIRST. 4. AMD has its hands full with Ryzen, we also know new consoles are coming soon, its not a massive company like Intel that can do multiple big projects at the same time. We are going something maybe in late 2019 not before. a long time from now.

Not trying to start a war or anything, but how exactly did Vega fail? May not have sold as much as the competition did, but still a very decent option that's available.

vbetts:

Not trying to start a war or anything, but how exactly did Vega fail? May not have sold as much as the competition did, but still a very decent option that's available.

This goes back to a statement I made earlier: a lot of people around here think a lack of competition at the high end means the architecture as a whole was a fail. In other words, since Vega didn't compete with the 1080Ti (in gaming), many people automatically deemed the architecture as a failure, even though it had plenty of strong points. And this is why I've commented in the first place - such a mentality is very toxic, and elitist. Not everything made has to be the best.

schmidtbag:

This goes back to a statement I made earlier: a lot of people around here think a lack of competition at the high end means the architecture as a whole was a fail. In other words, since Vega didn't compete with the 1080Ti (in gaming), many people automatically deemed the architecture as a failure, even though it had plenty of strong points. And this is why I've commented in the first place - such a mentality is very toxic, and elitist. Not everything made has to be the best.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Vega 64 was never made to compete with the 1080 Ti? Does pretty well against the 1080 at least. Vega is far from a failure though, Vega is used in their recent APU, Intel uses Vega, Apple uses Vega, it's utilized. They don't have the market share, but I blame miners and price gouging galore thanks to that including Vega being sold out quickly. If Vega stock was not affected by mining, it would have been sold more.

vbetts:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Vega 64 was never made to compete with the 1080 Ti? Does pretty well against the 1080 at least. Vega is far from a failure though, Vega is used in their recent APU, Intel uses Vega, Apple uses Vega, it's utilized. They don't have the market share, but I blame miners and price gouging galore thanks to that including Vega being sold out quickly. If Vega stock was not affected by mining, it would have been sold more.

You're right about everything you said. That doesn't prevent people from complaining that AMD didn't have a response to the 1080Ti. And since there was nothing to compete with it (again, in gaming tasks), people judge the architecture as a whole to be a failure. Keep in mind, I don't think Vega was a failure, and I personally didn't especially care that the 1080Ti didn't have a competitor. Vega was underwhelming for gaming and the release day drivers were abysmal, but those are about the only truly negative aspects.

HardwareCaps:

let me show you reality: 1. Vega failed, while Nvidia focused on maximizing GDDR tech, AMD went for HBM which turned out to be too expensive and too hard to mass-produce 2. Raja which basically was behind the whole graphics division(RTG) of AMD left, meaning AMD needs to re-establish its own graphics division 3. AMD stated they are focusing AI tech FIRST. 4. AMD has its hands full with Ryzen, we also know new consoles are coming soon, its not a massive company like Intel that can do multiple big projects at the same time. We are going something maybe in late 2019 not before. a long time from now.

1) Vega did not fail due to HBM, but due to not being finished 2) Raja is one responsible for 1) 3) Multiple 7nm tapeouts at TSMC hint that AMD may have both Vega and Navi at 7nm with finished designs. 4) Zen 2 core had its tapeout too = finished. They could ahve redirected workforce depending on need to finish/improve something else. What you missed above with Navi is simple. It is more than a name. AMD stated that it is no longer GCN based GPU. Unless they postponed completely new design of functional blocks, Navi will be very different from GCN. (This information is known for years.)

vbetts:

Not trying to start a war or anything, but how exactly did Vega fail? May not have sold as much as the competition did, but still a very decent option that's available.

avaliable? where? availability is low, pricing is all over the place, TDP is bad compared to competition. Don't forget that Vega came a FULL YEAR after the 1080. what a product! oh and this hilarious situation when there were NO AIB cards for months! just the reference blower which sucked.

Fox2232:

1) Vega did not fail due to HBM, but due to not being finished 2) Raja is one responsible for 1) 3) Multiple 7nm tapeouts at TSMC hint that AMD may have both Vega and Navi at 7nm with finished designs. 4) Zen 2 core had its tapeout too = finished. They could ahve redirected workforce depending on need to finish/improve something else. What you missed above with Navi is simple. It is more than a name. AMD stated that it is no longer GCN based GPU. Unless they postponed completely new design of functional blocks, Navi will be very different from GCN. (This information is known for years.)

wasn't ready? it was a year late! no excuses for Zen, well designing a GPU takes quite a while, never said they haven't started working on it, ofc they have. its just that its far away from today. if they want to use 7nm there is a very long line ahead with much more profitable products like smartphones and even AMD's Ryzen. he said 7nm Navi in Q1 2019, cmon give me a break

https://abload.de/img/rtxzc71.png via 3DCenter

so navi is just consumer vega 20... will finally beat a 1080 by 10% in 3 titles with way more watts but since it lacks dx9, dx10 dx 11 optimizations, cuda cores, physx, gameworks, RT, Tensor cores it will be at a disadvantage depending on apps. also amd driver is way shitt vs nvidia on linux. And it gonna be overpriced. yeah ill probably just buy a used 1080 for half its price. vega was a flop because amd had to rebrand a r9 380 for the rx series instead of releasing vega 56 as rx line with 8gb ddr5 at msrp $170. amd sales where huge and most people who buy theses shit rx line up dis satisfied when have nvida product as well. the 1060 will do much better and give you hw accel with a lot more popular applications and tools.

pimpineasy:

so navi is just consumer vega 20... will finally beat a 1080 by 10% with way more watts but since it lacks cuda cores, physx, gameworks, RT, Tensor cores it will be at a disadvantage depending on apps. also amd driver is way shitt vs nvidia on linux. And it gonna be overpriced. yeah ill probably just buy a used 1080 for half its price.

Who are you trying to convince here? It's blatantly obvious you're a shill for Nvidia. Even if Navi had a 10% lead over the 2080Ti, you still wouldn't buy it.

actually i like amd product and use it often; however, 60% of their product line up are garbage trash products and trash their brand name they are just to sell, confuse buyer to upgrade more often cuz it is trash manufactured chip rebadge and waste resources on which when a consumer goes and buys a new laptop and my 2003 model is performing dam near similar wut. like for real my phone is 8 core and my ati adreno is getting better fps then rx 570. wait till that gets terrascaled and only give u 64 cores then 128 hit 2048 cores in year 2150. suck a dick. time goes to fast already old and pc tech has been trash since 98. i need thread rippers & vegas $40 dolla motha fuka.

HardwareCaps:

let me show you reality: 1. Vega failed, while Nvidia focused on maximizing GDDR tech, AMD went for HBM which turned out to be too expensive and too hard to mass-produce.

From a business standpoint, Vega was a win. It was best mining GPU ever and came out at the peak of the mining boom. AMD couldnt make enough of them and was always sold out.

I am wondering what "finished" would be like.

Fox2232:

Actually waiting game is good for AMD at this point. With those ridiculous prices, AMD will have easy time being cheaper at comparable performance.

I sure hope so....

HardwareCaps:

avaliable? where? availability is low, pricing is all over the place, TDP is bad compared to competition. Don't forget that Vega came a FULL YEAR after the 1080. what a product! oh and this hilarious situation when there were NO AIB cards for months! just the reference blower which sucked.

Availability was due to miners buying an already limited stock, and Vega is easy to get now and is actually priced near or at MSRP. Also I don't think you've heard of Radeon chill? Release time really isn't much of a negative about Vega either, now it just seems like your nitpicking... Same with the AIB designs, or lack of. I will admit that was annoying, but let's be honest what's the real difference between a Strix and Aorus design? Most people aren't overclocking, and a number of people bought the Founder's Edition cards with blower style fans no problem, so can't really use that as an excuse....