... and that's how people pay big money to end up being beta testers for all hardware manufacturers.

fantaskarsef:

... and that's how people pay big money to end up being beta testers for all hardware manufacturers.

When you go to a restaurant and order a newly introduced dish the chef has developed, you are also a beta tester for chewware. If the restaurant observes customer reactions aren't great, the dish will disappear or be heavily modified. If a brewery brings a new drink to the market, the buyers of the first batch are the beta testers for glugware. If the product fails to sell and new orders don't appear, the brewery probably discontinues the product.

AMD use their PC customers as guinea pigs LOL 1. MBA 7900XTX vapor chamber with insufficient water 2. Radeon driver that nuke windows. 3. Bios that can kill cpu+mainboard

Kaarme:

When you go to a restaurant and order a newly introduced dish the chef has developed, you are also a beta tester for chewware. If the restaurant observes customer reactions aren't great, the dish will disappear or be heavily modified. If a brewery brings a new drink to the market, the buyers of the first batch are the beta testers for glugware. If the product fails to sell and new orders don't appear, the brewery probably discontinues the product.

Yes, thank you for agreeing with me, I see the similarities too.

Krizby:

AMD use their PC customers as guinea pigs LOL 1. MBA 7900XTX vapor chamber with insufficient water 2. Radeon driver that nuke windows. 3. Bios that can kill cpu+mainboard

12VHPWR cables comes to mind. What I wanted to convey with especially noting they all do it, none of them is better than the rest.

fantaskarsef:

12VHPWR cables comes to mind. What I wanted to convey with especially noting they all do it, none of them is better than the rest.

nothing wrong with 12vhpwr cable beside people not plugging it in fully, heck someone with 7900XTX has burnt 8pin too LMAO https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/review-xfx-merc-310-radeon-rx-7900-xtx.445879/

Krizby:

nothing wrong with 12vhpwr cable beside people not plugging it in fully, heck someone with 7900XTX has burnt 8pin too LMAO https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/review-xfx-merc-310-radeon-rx-7900-xtx.445879/

I do tend to agree with you but of course, they release the product and find something's not 100% how they thought it would turn out (or only 99%). As there is already a revision in the works for the 12VHPWR plug, I guess they do see room for improvement.

fantaskarsef:

I do tend to agree with you but of course, they release the product and find something's not 100% how they thought it would turn out (or only 99%). As there is already a revision in the works for the 12VHPWR plug, I guess they do see room for improvement.

Yes the 12VHPWR can be improved, but it was not released in a broken state LOL It's like comparing a new driver who just passed his driving test vs someone who failed the test, yes both can improve but that don't make them the same 😀

Atleast amd adress these issues nvidia didnt do anything when 4090's start burning up.

Krizby:

nothing wrong with 12vhpwr cable beside people not plugging it in fully, heck someone with 7900XTX has burnt 8pin too LMAO https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/review-xfx-merc-310-radeon-rx-7900-xtx.445879/

The old connectors also caused occasional issues over the many years, but so what? Shouldn't the new plug be better than the old one? Seems pretty stupid to replace an existing solution with something that's no better. If you replace something that has worked for longer than the youngest Guru3D members have existed in this world (maybe), then at least make it significantly better in every way.

Krizby:

Yes the 12VHPWR can be improved, but it was not released in a broken state LOL It's like comparing a new driver who just passed his driving test vs someone who failed the test, yes both can improve but that don't make them the same 😀

Yes, I 100% agree with you. And I never said anything about the 12V connector was broken, just that it was a big public beta test, as with every new thing.

Undying:

Atleast amd adress these issues nvidia didnt do anything when 4090's start burning up.

Well, one could always argue about that. But I tend to agree with you there. But it's a fact that plugging in a cable properly is more relying on the user to do it right than enable an EXPO profile. Which you can't really look into before, I guess. And also, it should run through at least two safety nets until it ends up damaging hardware, while the plug only has one (the user).

constant agesa updates for AMx users again ?

Kaarme:

The old connectors also caused occasional issues over the many years, but so what? Shouldn't the new plug be better than the old one? Seems pretty stupid to replace an existing solution with something that's no better. If you replace something that has worked for longer than the youngest Guru3D members have existed in this world (maybe), then at least make it significantly better in every way.

I hate the stupid 8pin cables way before 12VHPWR came out, I'm very glad to use a single cable instead of 2-3 cables. W1zzard from Techpowerup totally agreed with me there Single cable masterrace 😛

Krizby:

AMD use their PC customers as guinea pigs LOL 1. MBA 7900XTX vapor chamber with insufficient water 2. Radeon driver that nuke windows. 3. Bios that can kill cpu+mainboard

If you are going to troll on how AMD bad nVidia good make sure that its true: 1. instability in 3000 on partners cards cause they did not have driver to do proper validation ( users are beta testers for first revision of partner card on new architecture release ) 2. WHQL driver 196.75 burning down GPUs 3. vBIOS that can kill GPUs ( the new world and other uncapped menu fun - and yes it is comparable as in both cases it was partner bios that allowed operating in unsafe range ) 4. bumpgate was fun too There are some more grievances with nVidia but its on Linux side so no point mentioning them here. What AMD did not do to this day is to prevent consumers using their hardware the way they want to force them to professional line: 1. for a long time the gaming driver did not work when hypervisor was detected, working around this detection made the driver 100% usable 2. EULA disallowing use of gaming driver in datacenter 3. updating their gaming driver to stop allowing 4 displays ( linux specific as win was already allowing only 3 displays ) AMD is not my fried but at least don't try to be my enemy. Cant say the same about nVidia. PS: don't forget to make fun of AMD by providing production driver for 1st 6 months after big-ish change int heir GPU architecture. PSS: and make fun of nVidia to not support Rapid Packed Math (FP16) on consumer cards to this day (tech from AMD Vega era)

Considering the AGESA update, that to me suggests this is either a design flaw from AMD, or, it basically compensates for the mistakes of mobo manufacturers. However, AMD really ought to have designed the firmware to protect the chip/socket regardless of what the mobo manufacturers do, so ultimately I'd say this is still AMD's fault even if there are mobos out there that never have this problem. Of course, this assumes mobo manufacturers aren't egregiously going against AMD's specs.

Krizby:

nothing wrong with 12vhpwr cable beside people not plugging it in fully

As has been argued to death: if the cable clicks into place and still burns, user-error is no longer the problem; the cable is designed wrong.

Krizby:

It's like comparing a new driver who just passed his driving test vs someone who failed the test, yes both can improve but that don't make them the same 😀

Not the best example, because someone who failed the test isn't legally allowed to keep driving indefinitely or register a car. In this case, student-driver AMD made a failing mistake but the tester happened to not notice and "passed" anyway. This AGESA update is basically them re-taking the test.

Krizby:

Single cable masterrace 😛

I'd rather GPUs just have a reasonable power draw, so y'know, even if you use a crappy not-fully-plugged-in 8-pin cable, you're not going to cause something to burn.

schmidtbag:

As has been argued to death: if the cable clicks into place and still burns, user-error is no longer the problem; the cable is designed wrong. I'd rather GPUs just have a reasonable power draw, so y'know, even if you use a crappy not-fully-plugged-in 8-pin cable, you're not going to cause something to burn.

Show me how many PCIe cables you are using on your r9 290 😀, and show me that you can run it with half plugged in cables

Krizby:

Show me how many PCIe cables you are using on your r9 290 😀, and show me that you can run it with half plugged in cables

Just 2x 8-pins. It's undervolted too so it runs a little more efficiently. In any case, it is the most power-hungry GPU I'll ever buy - 250W is my absolute limit now.

schmidtbag:

Just 2x 8-pins. It's undervolted too so it runs a little more efficiently. In any case, it is the most power-hungry GPU I'll ever buy - 250W is my absolute limit now.

If you buy a 200W GPU and you decide to not to fully plug in the 8pin, I guarantee you will not have a good time.

Krizby:

If you buy a 200W GPU and you decide to not to fully plug in the 8pin, I guarantee you will not have a good time.

If it clips in place but is just a little askew, I'm highly confident it would run fine.

Krizby:

Show me how many PCIe cables you are using on your r9 290 😀, and show me that you can run it with half plugged in cables

The 8 pin connector (only 6 pins actually used for power) is able to handle 300Watts just fine according to the Molex datasheet, so if a good powersupply with good quality cables are used it would work fine with one correctly connected 8 pin power to a 290. 8 pin has 13 Amps per pin rating and 5.0 PCI Express® 12VHPWR has a 9.5 Amps per pin rating. 8 pin has a much higher safety margin then 5.0 PCI Express® 12VHPWR has in the PCI max rating specs. When using 2X 8 pins for something like a 290 or 6900xt for example, the risk of both connectors being badly inserted is much lower then a badly connected 5.0 PCI Express® 12VHPWR on a Nvidia equivalent card and the 290 could continue running with one 8 pin if the cables are good enough quality.

Krizby:

If you buy a 200W GPU and you decide to not to fully plug in the 8pin, I guarantee you will not have a good time.

If you dont plug it all the way it wont boot but it wont burn.