ivanosky:

To be fair, a 4TF RDNA 2.0 GPU should be faster than a RX 480. But last gen they called a Radeon 7850 (PS4) and Radeon 7790 (Xbox One) "Next Gen", so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Okay let’s assume RDNA2 has the performance per Tflop of Turing. It’s still less than 1650 super performance.

Loophole35:

Okay let’s assume RDNA2 has the performance per Tflop of Turing. It’s still less than 1650 super performance.

You are comparing PC with console hardware. GPU wise it should be more powerful than the Xbox one X (at same tflops RDNA1 >> CGN), since the Xbox one X could run RDR2 at native 4k at 30fps with medium - low detail, this console could probably run it at 1080p 60fps with medium- high. For a 300 USD (??) console I personally don't think it is too shabby.

Loophole35:

Okay let’s assume RDNA2 has the performance per Tflop of Turing. It’s still less than 1650 super performance.

If Lockhart's GPU has the same features (Ray Tracing, VRS, Mesh Shading, etc) as the Series X's GPU and it's powerful enough to provide the same experience (framerate, graphical settings) at 1080p then it doesn't matter what is the equivalent PC GPU because it will achieve what it was designed to do, provide a Next Gen experience for 1080p TV owners. On paper, a 4 TF GPU sounds like it could provide the same experience on 1080p as a 12 TF GPU on 4K.

jetbruceli:

I see what MS did and while smart, very deceitful, why? Well, they brag about specs and performance and most users don't know the difference between the systems. Meaning they will buy the series S based on the idea that its the Series X performance. I know this because so many think they have an Xbox one x but have a one s. I know so many who don't know the difference between PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro. Heck, lots of people I talk to, think a computer is good based on the hard drive size.

When one console costs 1/2 of other, person has to be bit on imbecility side to believe they are the same.

Stop being tech newbies. You aren't gurus in that matter it seems. Take notes. Xbox Series S Lockhart, will keep all graphics quality from 1080p 60hz up to 1440p 60hz. Xbox Series X will be capable from 1080p up to 4k 120hz. The graphics quality will be the same between those two consoles except framerate and resolution of-course. It will destroy PS4 and Xbox One sales with a final price under 300$. Period.

ivanosky:

If Lockhart's GPU has the same features (Ray Tracing, VRS, Mesh Shading, etc) as the Series X's GPU and it's powerful enough to provide the same experience (framerate, graphical settings) at 1080p then it doesn't matter what is the equivalent PC GPU because it will achieve what it was designed to do, provide a Next Gen experience for 1080p TV owners. On paper, a 4 TF GPU sounds like it could provide the same experience on 1080p as a 12 TF GPU on 4K.

The problem I have is it’s too little for current gen 1080p max settings. With RT look into it a little. I’m not sure there is really a difference in scaling from FHD to 4k. So IF that is true this is going to not be able to do RT on the level of the X regardless of resolution.

sbacchetta:

You are comparing PC with console hardware. GPU wise it should be more powerful than the Xbox one X (at same tflops RDNA1 >> CGN), since the Xbox one X could run RDR2 at native 4k at 30fps with medium - low detail, this console could probably run it at 1080p 60fps with medium- high. For a 300 USD (??) console I personally don't think it is too shabby.

Xbox uses a w10 kernel and DX12.

Loophole35:

The problem I have is it’s too little for current gen 1080p max settings.

The same could have been said of the Radeon 7790 (Xbox One) and 7850 (PS4) at the start of this gen. https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_7790_review_benchmark,1.html https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-hd-7790-dual-x/ https://www.anandtech.com/show/6837/amd-radeon-7790-review-feat-sapphire-the-first-desktop-sea-islands https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_hd_7850_and_7870_review,1.html https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-hd-7850-hd-7870/ https://www.anandtech.com/show/5625/amd-radeon-hd-7870-ghz-edition-radeon-hd-7850-review-rounding-out-southern-islands

ivanosky:

The same could have been said of the Radeon 7790 (Xbox One) and 7850 (PS4) at the start of this gen. https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_7790_review_benchmark,11.html https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-hd-7790-dual-x/15.html https://www.anandtech.com/show/6837/amd-radeon-7790-review-feat-sapphire-the-first-desktop-sea-islands

And it was too little. Next.

Khronikos:

It's not opening up anything to anybody. A 200 dollar PS4 will put this thing in a coffin. And Sony knows they probably don't even have to do that.

Your card can do DX-R. Think about reason why GPU like 2060 (which yours outperform by up to 35% in games) can be some 50% faster with DX-R enabled. Then put that thought towards what you know about RDNA2.

It's pretty obvious that this smaller version will have feature parity with the SeX version, and will only run at lower resolution and/or lower framerates. What is so hard to understand here? People nowdays seem to think that gaming at 30fps or lower than 4k resolutions is absurd, but let's not forget we're still hardly doing 1080p on regular consoles, at janky 30fps. And I'm pretty sure consoles are selling better than ever, so yeah. This is a smart move from MS, as the average consumer along with people that have less money will absolutely go for this version. I mean, better have an 1080p console than no console at all.

Khronikos:

Not sure how something like this is going to survive. Why the hell would anybody want this I have no idea. At some point Sony will be blowing the door off PS4s for 199 or whatever they have planned. Most people want a better system, and if the choices are discless PS5 for 399-500 or this shitty thing for 300 people aren't going to be stupid with their money unless they are really dumb. Doubtful many people buy onto this hype.

Grandma: Which console did lil' jonny want for xmas? Grandpa: Xboxy trashcan? Grandma: Well, let's get this one and hope he doesn't steal our meds again... These are the ones to worry about. Not the informed kidz, but, their uninformed grandparents...

Loobyluggs:

Grandma: Which console did lil' jonny want for xmas? Grandpa: Xboxy trashcan? Grandma: Well, let's get this one and hope he doesn't steal our meds again... These are the ones to worry about. Not the informed kidz, but, their uninformed grandparents...

I have been a kid before and I had grandparents too, in this case it's the kid job (I was doing this and I am sure other kid do this too) to write it cleary down for the shop clerk to understand or explain like I want the black one not the white one (based on rumors renders) to their grandparents. If the kid is dumb enough or small enough to not be able to explain this, probably 1080p is enough for him :-p I mean with multiple platform game kids already have to explain stuff like PS 4 version not Xbox one. Does every kids on this planet, now a days, need to have a PS4 and Xbox 1 to play whatever version they are gifted ???

sbacchetta:

I have been a kid before and I had grandparents too, in this case it's the kid job (I was doing this and I am sure other kid do this too) to write it cleary down for the shop clerk to understand or explain like I want the black one not the white one (based on rumors renders) to their grandparents. If the kid is dumb enough or small enough to not be able to explain this, probably 1080p is enough for him 😛 I mean with multiple platform game kids already have to explain stuff like PS 4 version not Xbox one. Does every kids on this planet, now a days, need to have a PS4 and Xbox 1 to play whatever version they are gifted ???

The role/job of a grandparent is to annoy and aggravate their children by being totally awesome to their children. Buying expensive toys for them is the preferred choice 🙂

Ne1l:

Lockhart will open up the vast market of people with 1080p TV's - 4K gaming TV's are still too expensive unless you're willing to compromise on features. eg LG promised a 'full' HDMI2.1 upgrade for their last two OLED generations but now say 'almost full' HDMI2.1 spec - I bought 65" B9 after they enabled g-sync support and promised full 2.1 support 😡 Microsoft also have the xCloud, if Lockhart can output 4k maybe it can offload some compute to the cloud - or worst case just stream 4K games like Geforce Cloud.

You can get a 4k TV for around $200 now. Most likely this will see a 4k output support still just as the one S does, just upscaling and no enhancing.

While i like the idea of having a cheaper and lesser system in terms of specs. Well considering that game devs already have to dumb down graphics to port games over to the Switch they can do it for the Series S and may have to do it for the Xbox one if they are still making games for that.

Khronikos:

You aren't getting raytracing and advanced anything on this system lmao. Do the math bud.

This comment aged well /s

Khronikos:

Not sure how something like this is going to survive. Why the hell would anybody want this I have no idea. At some point Sony will be blowing the door off PS4s for 199 or whatever they have planned. You aren't getting raytracing and advanced anything on this system lmao. Do the math bud.

1/3rd of the GPU power for 1/4 of the resolution. The math are indeed hard, but possible.

Khronikos:

Eurogamer were always Xbox shills. DF isn't too bad anymore, but they are usually fairly on point yet definitely have issues when doing some comparisons.

I remember Eurogamer and DF been shat on on Reddit for reminding everyone that the Xbox One was running everything on lower resolution than the PS4, and always providing the worst experience in cross platform AAA titles. They got so famous for it that Microsoft started giving them first party access to new hardware since the Xbox One X.

Khronikos:

It's not opening up anything to anybody. A 200 dollar PS4 will put this thing in a coffin. And Sony knows they probably don't even have to do that.

This is not the same generation as a PS4. This system destroys the PS4 Pro hardware wise. It has the NVMe drive, the new processor, the faster RAM, audio storage, all the new GPU features. It just targets 1080p instead of 4k.

Loobyluggs:

Grandma: Which console did lil' jonny want for xmas? Grandpa: Xboxy trashcan? Grandma: Well, let's get this one and hope he doesn't steal our meds again... These are the ones to worry about. Not the informed kidz, but, their uninformed grandparents...

Really. I can imagine another scenario. You want to get a new console for your kid, you don't give 500$ + $120 for two games and a controller. You just apply to the GamePass ultimate, you start with $25 per month and they give to your little brat all the GamePass + EA games, and you pay off the console like a phone, while retaining access to all the game catalogue. ie, your cost for your family is like buying a relatively cheap mobile with monthly instalments, and not $600-$700 upfront. If you want to be cheeky you can make it the $35 version and you get the Series X. That's a good fucking deal and a no brainer. Possibly one of the greatest moves in gaming, they have brought the iPhone model to consoles.

Khronikos:

The fact is their specs are completely mediocre on the GPU side. The ray tracing they will shoehorn in will be low-res crap most likely. Anything advanced will be neutered into the oblivion. The specs are right there. If this is 30FPS I guess we will see some minor effects. All of that is going to be cut down and completely lacking for anybody with higher resolutions and probably even in 1080p.

There will be no difference in frame rate. They have everything the same except the GPU, which is 1/3 of the original one but targets 1/4 of the resolution. I bet developers won't even have a choice to select to which platform they deploy (like with the One X).

Khronikos:

We have the X out right now. They are somewhat comparable at least. The better CPU will help, but how much? For what? Ray tracing is incredibly expensive. Maybe at 1080p 30FPS lol?

This machine is much faster than the One X. The CPU it has is at least eight times faster, the storage almost two hundred times faster, the memory is almost 3x the bandwidth. Wtf are you smoking. Again, I bet that developers won't even have a way to know on which machine their code will run. There will be zero difference except resolution, which this system can handle no problem.

PrMinisterGR:

Really. I can imagine another scenario. You want to get a new console for your kid, you don't give 500$ + $120 for two games and a controller. You just apply to the GamePass ultimate, you start with $25 per month and they give to your little brat all the GamePass + EA games, and you pay off the console like a phone, while retaining access to all the game catalogue. ie, your cost for your family is like buying a relatively cheap mobile with monthly instalments, and not $600-$700 upfront. If you want to be cheeky you can make it the $35 version and you get the Series X. That's a good procreating deal and a no brainer. Possibly one of the greatest moves in gaming, they have brought the iPhone model to consoles.

Really. You can imagine that grandparents will even know any of what you just wrote...not to mention the recent micro-x or whatever it's called Microsoft just released. Grandparents now have even more things to get wrong when they buy presents for one member of the family. They will (typically) just walk into the shops and have a vague recollection as to which toy little jonny wanted and grab the cheapest one on the shelf, knowing full well the little tike will not argue on xmas day. Buying gifts for grandkids is akin to buying beer for a friend. You know they cannot argue if you put the cheap stuff in front of them.

Why the passion with the grandparents. You understand that most people with kids these days actually grew up with computers right? Even "grand parents" are people born in the 60s-70s at this point, they can read a piece of paper and understand their costs. The image you show is basically a "Nintendo" meme from the '90s. I guess it will happen, but it's completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

PrMinisterGR:

Why the passion with the grandparents. You understand that most people with kids these days actually grew up with computers right? Even "grand parents" are people born in the 60s-70s at this point, they can read a piece of paper and understand their costs. The image you show is basically a "Nintendo" meme from the '90s. I guess it will happen, but it's completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

These people exist - to state they do not is, inaccurate. You have people who are uninformed regardless of age, and the ones who buy presents for other people are the most likely to not be informed or even care. Need proof? Explain why when there is a new big budget movie, there are also movies released with 1/96th the budget, yet with a similar name and a similar poster/box art. The answer you will find is what I've been saying: uninformed people.