I wonder if it was worth it for GF to sue TSMC, seeing how this response was to be expected. Of course if GF is absolutely certain they can convince the courts they are right and TSMC wrong in both cases, then it might be profitable, but who knows. I wish GF had instead decided to stay in the race back then.

Playing with fire might be fun, might also burn you. GF was really stupid, first giving up on the race to 7nm and then suing TSMC. In the end It's probably us, the consumer, that get hurt by stupid wars.

Guys but how do you know what is profitable or not for a company? A company is about making money most of the time, people that are in charge decide depending on a medium to long term vision and budgets. There may be lot of reason why a company decide to not be on the edge of the tech but rather just works on different kind of chips.

If this article were more inclusive of information, you would be aware that in August Global Foundries actually filed a lawsuit against T.SM.C. for the exact same thing. So this announcement is just T.S.M.C.'s lawyers typical move of muddying the waters. A six billion dollar company, Global Foundries, duking it out with a 11 billion dollar company, TS.M.C. . I can see where the damage to their incomes is lol.

asturur:

Guys but how do you know what is profitable or not for a company? A company is about making money most of the time, people that are in charge decide depending on a medium to long term vision and budgets. There may be lot of reason why a company decide to not be on the edge of the tech but rather just works on different kind of chips.

Yeah, even the American patent trolls are only companies trying to make money the best they can. Gotta love 'em, right? GF is just a sore loser. If they decided to drop out of the race, the least they could do is to leave alone the ones who had the guts to continue.

The standard outcome for these kinds of things is a cross-licensing deal between the parties. Standard would be a situation where neither side has a clear legal advantage since both are infringing to one degree or another. Often because both came up with similar innovations about the same time and both attempted to patent them. In some cases both patents are granted for practically the same exact thing. I have seen this first hand at previous employers. In one case, our patent was granted years before and someone else sued us for essentially the same thing. We paid them several thousand bucks to cross license and go away because the legal fees would have been ten times the settlement. The state of the patent system is just horrendous. It is set up so only lawyers come out ahead but that is not a surprising since they make the laws and litigate them too.

Silva:

Playing with fire might be fun, might also burn you. GF was really stupid, first giving up on the race to 7nm and then suing TSMC. In the end It's probably us, the consumer, that get hurt by stupid wars.

Totally agree. Not sure what GF was expecting by provoking a giant like TSMC. Basically bringing a knife to a gun fight. Doesn't help that TSMC is one of the few tech companies that doesn't seem to have made a lot of enemies. They're oddly good at not pissing people off on a regular basis, so, their outward reputation in that regard only makes them harder to target.

schmidtbag:

Doesn't help that TSMC is one of the few tech companies that doesn't seem to have made a lot of enemies.

Yeah, TSMC's first statement in response to GF's action reflects their attitude quite well: "We are disappointed to see a foundry peer resort to meritless lawsuits instead of competing in the marketplace with technology."

A Chinese company filing a complaint against an American company... LOL that's rich. Meanwhile they continue to work on their malware to steal absolutely anything they can.

Neo Cyrus:

A Chinese company filing a complaint against an American company... LOL that's rich. Meanwhile they continue to work on their malware to steal absolutely anything they can.

Uh..... Taiwan!=People's Republic of China.

a few reads for you guys, I can't find the story I first read about stolen tech, I think it was the samsung case ? but the story was that an ex-employee quickly found a job "teaching" engineers which happened to all work for the competitor ,what a coincidence ! 2017 05 05 https://hothardware.com/news/former-tsmc-engineer-charged-stealing-28nm-tech-trade-secrets 2015 08 26 https://9to5mac.com/2015/08/26/tsmc-samsung-chips-apple/

I'm going to patent a special bolt that only my patented wrench will fit.

schmidtbag:

Uh..... Taiwan!=People's Republic of China.

I'm well aware. But anyone who thinks they don't do the same practices, minus sharing all their stolen data with the PRC, is delusional. I called it Chinese to encompass all of them... including HK, even though TW is considered a separate entity by everyone not called the PRC.

airbud7:

I'm going to patent a special bolt that only my patented wrench will fit.

the McDonald’s toys all have some neat triangle shaped screws so you could make a dodecahedron bolt or something like that!

Neo Cyrus:

I'm well aware. But anyone who thinks they don't do the same practices, minus sharing all their stolen data with the PRC, is delusional. I called it Chinese to encompass all of them... including HK, even though TW is considered a separate entity by everyone not called the PRC.

Even still, how exactly do you think TSMC spies on people? All they do is make wafers of transistors.

schmidtbag:

Even still, how exactly do you think TSMC spies on people? All they do is make wafers of transistors.

Every single "Chinese" company that has ever been investigated has been been busted for stealing IP, and if it's mainland China are known to be working for the government since you know, it's LAW there for companies to have to share all info with them. TW is no exception to IP theft, laws mean nothing to them. They are the same countries where you can walk into any major market and buy all the pirated and knockoff goods you want wide in the open. Anyone denying it or calling it a conspiracy is in the same book as flat Earthers or Scientologists to me. If it's the case every single time in the past for every single other example, why the hell wouldn't one of the two major providers IN THE WORLD of wafers in the world be doing the same? Every multi billion dollar industry tries to steal from one another, and the "Chinese" ones are the worst offenders known.

Neo Cyrus:

Every single "Chinese" company that has ever been investigated has been been busted for stealing IP, and if it's mainland China are known to be working for the government since you know, it's LAW there for companies to have to share all info with them. TW is no exception to IP theft, laws mean nothing to them. They are the same countries where you can walk into any major market and buy all the pirated and knockoff goods you want wide in the open. Anyone denying it or calling it a conspiracy is in the same book as flat Earthers or Scientologists to me. If it's the case every single time in the past for every single other example, why the hell wouldn't one of the two major providers IN THE WORLD of wafers in the world be doing the same? Every multi billion dollar industry tries to steal from one another, and the "Chinese" ones are the worst offenders known.

You didn't answer my question. How is TSMC spying on people? This is what you're accusing them of (more specifically, stealing their data). Stealing IP from a CPU architecture is not spying on people. Hypothetically, let's say TSMC really is stealing IP and giving it to PRC. At that point, whatever mainland China does with that IP is not TSMC's responsibility. That doesn't make them accomplices in the crime.

Neo Cyrus:

I'm well aware. But anyone who thinks they don't do the same practices, minus sharing all their stolen data with the PRC, is delusional. I called it Chinese to encompass all of them... including HK, even though TW is considered a separate entity by everyone not called the PRC.

Taiwan is worried about China's invasion 365 days a year. They have absolutely no reason to be best buddies with China, aside from the same kind of business transactions everybody does with China (including Europe and the North America). Furthermore, any technology leaked to China from Taiwan would only hurt Taiwan's own chances to compete and survive. I'm sure some will leak due to espionage, of course. China is doing that stuff everywhere, but since China and Taiwan are so close to each other geographically, have the same language and looks, it would be easier than elsewhere. Kind of like an English speaking Canadian having it easy in the USA. No offense, but you should read a bit about Taiwan's history. It's a nation (or a pseudo-nation) founded by the people who lost the civil war in the mainland China. Back then the communists of China would have liked to beat them until nobody remembered they ever existed. Even today they consider the people of Taiwan rebels (like the winners of a civil war would consider the losers). Btw, nobody sane living in a democracy wants to be transferred under a communist dictatorship. Just look at Hong Kong. There are protests around the year when the communist iron fist tries to hammer them down, even though it's a special region.

schmidtbag:

You didn't answer my question. How is TSMC spying on people? This is what you're accusing them of (more specifically, stealing their data). Stealing IP from a CPU architecture is not spying on people. Hypothetically, let's say TSMC really is stealing IP and giving it to PRC. At that point, whatever mainland China does with that IP is not TSMC's responsibility. That doesn't make them accomplices in the crime.

Well my bad if I worded it to come out like that. I was talking about IP theft and other shady practices, not spying for mainland China. And if they were, by handing it off I don't know why you think it suddenly doesn't make them accomplices. By any law I've ever heard that doesn't just make them an accomplice, it makes them the main criminals and they'd be charged as such. If you were known to ask someone to steal something, and they did and handed it to you, they'd be charged if caught, not just you. @Kaarme as I said to Schmidt, my bad if i worded it that poorly.

Kaarme - ' Taiwan is worried about China's invasion 365 days a year ' Ditto , watched a good documentary on this subject. Nice to see other nations or so called, that do not want to be under Chinese rule! Who would want to be? Cheap liver and bacon meals, could be your liver 😀 Human harvesting 😱