Threadripper has very low value. The previous generation motherboard is not compatible with the new Threadripper and it sucked. Threadripper does not matter at all.
That's true of ALL HEDT platforms now. When you can get 16 cores on the desktop platform, the premium price for HEDT is a waste unless you really need 32+ cores.
To be fair, Intel's HEDT has had almost no longevity and has been outlclassed in 2 years by a new chipset for as long as the HEDT platform has existed, so this is nothing new.
Threadripper has very low value. The previous generation motherboard is not compatible with the new Threadripper and it sucked. Threadripper does not matter at all.
AMD wouldn't make them if they didn't matter. Motherboard manufacturers wouldn't make mobos for them if they didn't matter. Are you trying to argue against the reality?
You might have missed the news, but the new Threadripper comes with PCIe 4.0. There's no way to give old mobos it as an upgrade. TR is an enthusiast platform, not a mainstream platform, so aside from competition consideration, the value is very subjective, unlike in the mainstream, where value is what keeps things within the category. That's why it's very acceptable to require a new motherboard when you have an upgrade that's simply impossible with the old one. AMD went out of their way to retain socket/mobo compatibility with the mainstream Ryzen because value is more important in the mainstream, like I already said.
Seeing as X570 needs active cooling due to a handful of PCIe 4.0 lanes, I imagine there must be a substantial heat increase with 64 lanes.
most x399 boards expose 64 lanes direct to cpu lanes,x48 for 3-4 pcie x16 slots, 3 x4 m.2 slots and 1 x4 link for the chipset.
Unlike am4 which only has 24 lanes direct to cpu
X16 for gpu , an x4 m.2 drive and an x4 for the chipset to be used for io/additional slots.
The additional lanes should have no effect on the chipset power consumption.
However, I suspect the reason it needs a fan, is because its the exact same chipset as x570 ,which is a repurposed am4 iodie
most x399 boards expose 64 lanes direct to cpu lanes,x48 for 3-4 pcie x16 slots, 3 x4 m.2 slots and 1 x4 link for the chipset.
Unlike am4 which only has 24 lanes direct to cpu
X16 for gpu , an x4 m.2 drive and an x4 for the chipset to be used for io/additional slots.
The additional lanes should have no effect on the chipset power consumption.
However, I suspect the reason it needs a fan, is because its the exact same chipset as x570 ,which is a repurposed am4 iodie
But that's exactly my point - X570 only has 24 lanes, and yet it needs a fan. The only significant difference between X570 and previous generations is PCIe 4.0, suggesting it's the PCIe lanes themselves that add the heat. So, since X399 has more than double the PCIe 4.0 lanes, I imagine that's going to be substantially more heat.
X399 seems to have larger heatsinks, so, my assumption can't be too far off.
But that's exactly my point - X570 only has 24 lanes, and yet it needs a fan. The only significant difference between X570 and previous generations is PCIe 4.0, suggesting it's the PCIe lanes themselves that add the heat. So, since X399 has more than double the PCIe 4.0 lanes, I imagine that's going to be substantially more heat.
X399 seems to have larger heatsinks, so, my assumption can't be too far off.
the extra power consumption is from the pcie controllers, with the the extra lanes on threadripper , the extra heat from pcie gen 4 would be on the cpu itself,
And as it turns out there are more lanes connected to the chipset on trx40 , and provides 24 chipset lanes so it may be something else other than the am4 io die(16 chipset lanes on x570). But the point stands, the extra (cpu )lanes on threadripper would not contribute to a chipset fan on a presumed pcie gen 4 X399 board.
the threadripper IO die is the TRX40 chipset, it is not the same as the x570 die
no, that doesn't add up.
It could still be the am4 io die,
[SPOILER]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48258310027_43ce166462_o.jpg [/SPOILER]
It looks like 16 pairs of pcie controllers, on the io die, so it probably has 32 lanes phsyically, much like zen 1 and zen+, and that would work for both x570 and trx40.
It's the way of the future. If you want to be stuck with old-gen PCIe 3.0 speeds then be my guest. 😛
Show me PCI3.0 being a bottleneck in my usage and I will bite. If a GPU could saturate 16 gen 3 lanes then the CPU would not be able to keep up in most cases. Gen 4 is nice but not needed as of now. In 5 years then maybe.
And as it turns out there are more lanes connected to the chipset on trx40 , and provides 24 chipset lanes so it may be something else other than the am4 io die(16 chipset lanes on x570). But the point stands, the extra (cpu )lanes on threadripper would not contribute to a chipset fan on a presumed pcie gen 4 X399 board.
I didn't say it was just the extra lanes, I'm saying it's the fact they're PCIe 4.0 lanes. So, if PCIe 4.0 isn't the reason for needing a chipset fan, then what is?
Loophole35:
Show me PCI3.0 being a bottleneck in my usage and I will bite. If a GPU could saturate 16 gen 3 lanes then the CPU would not be able to keep up in most cases. Gen 4 is nice but not needed as of now. In 5 years then maybe.
Although I totally agree that there's basically nothing out there that'll saturate x16 PCIe 3.0 lanes, there are devices out there that use fewer lanes and could see a healthy performance benefit.
Although I totally agree that there's basically nothing out there that'll saturate x16 PCIe 3.0 lanes, there are devices out there that use fewer lanes and could see a healthy performance benefit.
Well I haven't seen a Gen4 based NVMe topple any of the Samsung 970 units pro or evo. So again there is currently no "need" for gen4 and Intel knows that so they are not in a rush to adopt it. Gen4 is nothing more than a marketing gimmick at the moment to sell X570 motherboards.
Well I haven't seen a Gen4 based NVMe topple any of the Samsung 970 units pro or evo. So again there is currently no "need" for gen4 and Intel knows that so they are not in a rush to adopt it. Gen4 is nothing more than a marketing gimmick at the moment to sell X570 motherboards.
There's more PCIe devices than GPUs and M.2 SSDs...
I'm referring more to devices that only use 1 lane (or could, if there was more bandwidth per lane). So think stuff like high-speed NICs, capture cards, or Thunderbolt. That's where the extra bandwidth becomes more useful.
Really, what we should be doing at this point is trying to cut down on lanes. There may not currently be a single device that'll saturate PCIe 3.0 at x16, but, an x16 slot is relatively large. Reducing the amount of lanes allows for cheaper motherboards without really any losses to the user (unless of course they're using an outdated device that needs more lanes).
Also, you could run a pretty powerful GPU with x4 PCIe 4.0 lanes. That could open a lot of opportunities for future budget or tiny builds. Think of stuff like the Nvidia Jetson boards, or the LattePanda, but with PCIe 4.0 with a compatible GPU.
I didn't say it was just the extra lanes, I'm saying it's the fact they're PCIe 4.0 lanes. So, if PCIe 4.0 isn't the reason for needing a chipset fan, then what is?
This is why im replying to
schmidtbag:
Seeing as X570 needs active cooling due to a handful of PCIe 4.0 lanes, I imagine there must be a substantial heat increase with 64 lanes.
which is in response to why trx40 has a Motherboard fan,
All i meant was that the extra lanes on threadripper will not effect the presence of a motherboard fan or not, since the 64 lanes on x399 threadripper do not originate from the chipset, but the cpu. it wouldn't matter if they are gen 4 or not for this reason. there would be no "substantial heat increase" from having 64 gen 4 lanes that would require extra cooling for the trx40 chipset over x570.
that is all i intended to clarify.
we now know of course that the trx40 chipset is more using more lanes on the chipset than x570, so that is where the need for additional cooling(over x570) comes from.
so none of this matter now.
edit:correction
Show me PCI3.0 being a bottleneck in my usage and I will bite. If a GPU could saturate 16 gen 3 lanes then the CPU would not be able to keep up in most cases. Gen 4 is nice but not needed as of now. In 5 years then maybe.
FYI, that was a jab at @nizzen. He always talks about having "the best" and how he likes having the latest technology (regardless of the price or use). So, does he want the latest and greatest in PCIe technology or is he willing to settle for less? 😉
the threadripper IO die is the TRX40 chipset, it is not the same as the x570 dieno, that doesn't add up.