It's better than a street car system, i can't wait for cities to start spending taxpayer money on other old, obsolete tech like blimps.

PrMinisterGR:

Wait, why would anyone pay for this at this point? Other manufacturers have free systems that are safer than this. It feels almost like an attempt to juice more the whales, since everyone with a brain would not buy this. It's also on the limit of being a scam, there are people who bought Teslas almost ten years ago, who paid for "self-driving".

Which other manufactures have self driving that is safer? Why would people pay for it? I mean just watch this video and if you still don't know, you never will. [youtube=jCTssX2VdKA]

Dribble:

Not convinced the hardware is there yet for full self driving - you'd need a bunch of lidar systems and powerful custom processor. While tesla has some camera's (not lidar) and decent processing power I am doubtful anything made today will have anything like what is required when self driving becomes a thing.

It seems LIDAR isn't actually the best. It struggles to differentiate things. "some cameras" is a bit disingenuous. It has 9 cameras and around 12 ultrasonic sensors. It's already a thing and in use by people. See the video above.

Horus-Anhur:

This seems like DLC, but for cars. When I thought of a dystopian future, this was not what I had in mind. 🙄

In case you're not aware, Tesla has had DLC for pretty much a decade now. Most (but not all) of the cars are fully equipped from the factory but you have to pay extra to "unlock" it all. So for example if you want the extra battery range, the car already has it but you have to pay to use it.

Mpampis:

If you spend 20$ every day on cab drives, it'll take 2 full years to spend 15000$, and you don't even need to buy a car in the first place.

Well you also have to account for the cost of charging, registration fees, repairs, parking, etc. I think those extra fees are worth the convenience of having the car wherever you want whenever you want (compared to a cab) but the additional cost of the car itself is a bit steep.

Kaarme:

If it costs 15,000 bucks, I'd expect it to be a better driver than I am. I'm probably a below average driver, I will admit that, but I've still survived Finnish winters with icy roads and snow storms, plus my fair share of forest paths (too shoddy to be called a road) with even tree stumps left in the middle of them for decoration.

I'd trust the safety of an AI over the average human driver. So long as they have a proper sensor configuration, they will pretty much always be safer. Most things that would cause an accident to a self-driving car would cause one for a human driver as well. Self-driving cars can see all around them, do not get distracted, do not get tired, have faster reflexes, do not need headlights to see in the dark, and can figure out how to minimize the casualty in the event of an inevitable accident. Whether they'll actually get you where you want, that I might not trust them to do.

Richard Nutman:

Which other manufactures have self driving that is safer? Why would people pay for it? I mean just watch this video and if you still don't know, you never will. [youtube=jCTssX2VdKA]

The first car to be certified was a Honda ( https://medium.com/0xmachina/the-worlds-first-sae-l3-certified-self-driving-car-is-here-but-it-is-not-from-tesla-64bf2aa0f60a ) And that was "just" for L3. L4 and L5 is no one at the moment. Tesla will probably face criminal responsibility, both for misleading consumers with the "Autopilot" name and the full self-driving promise, and for obvious safety reasons. In Germany the name "Autopilot" was banned, because it was basically deemed to be a marketing scam. https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltaylor/2020/07/14/german-court-bans-tesla-autopilot-name-for-misleading-customers/ The first L3 vehicle allowed to actually be used in the EU is a Mercedes, which actually passed testing and got a certification. https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/mercedes-opens-sales-level-3-self-driving-system-s-class-eqs The problem is that people have been paying for "Autopilot" for almost a decade now, and the fancy screen makes it seem cool, but Tesla cars are actually not certified as L3 vehicles in most of the world. I wonder why :P

Soon it will cost you $0.50 to brake the car, and $0.80 to turn right. Jokes aside, it is the feature I will not going to turn on even if it's free.

People in 2016 were dropping thousands on a full self driving system and are now, five years later, are replacing their cars never having the feature. It's crazy that they are still charging for the promise of a feature that doesn't exist..even crazier that they don't allow people to transfer the license to a new Tesla and super duper crazy that people defend this.

Richard Nutman:

It seems LIDAR isn't actually the best. It struggles to differentiate things. "some cameras" is a bit disingenuous. It has 9 cameras and around 12 ultrasonic sensors. It's already a thing and in use by people. See the video above.

Camera's only give you 2D, you need 2 camera's and a lot of AI processing to guess a 3D distance to an object. LIDAR gives you accurate distance to an object with 1 camera. In a Tesla the camera's are not as good as our eyes (in particular for dealing with difficult lighting) and the processor has nothing like the power or training of our brains. So in say in very high contrast bright/dark conditions (a well lit bit going to a dark bit) or very low contrast (snow covering everything) there is little information for a camera's to work with and they could not see or miss-interpret something. LIDAR would work much better there. The correct solution is to use both. Tesla didn't go down the LIDAR route because it was expensive when they started out and they wanted to sell cars that are meant to have self driving capabilities in 2018 for lots more $$$. However pretty well everyone else does use LIDAR, and with mass production it will become cheap enough in a few years. There's no way a camera only Tesla will be able to compete with a LIDAR equipped Merc/Volvo/etc in certain scenarios and you can bet Merc/Volvo/etc will make sure all those are required to pass the gov self driving requrements. Realistically even if it did have LIDAR today it would probably fail - it's not until the gov has established the tests to pass (and those tests will be hard) that the car companies can then work on making cars that reliably pass the tests. For example they will probably require full backups of lots of components so if the camera's or processor fail it still works, no Tesla's have that functionally and they can't until you know what you need to have duplicates of. Look at comercial airplanes they are required to have to have 3 identical sets of independently developed systems and a fallback mechanism between them.

Not that far into the future, human drivers will be illegal. Mark my words. Actually, human driver will be almost impossible, since no new cars in the near future (nearer than people think) will not have a steering wheel or pedals or driving controls at all. There will still be crazies out there getting an old car out of their garage, endangering the traffic, until they get caught and their ancient car confiscated. The only legal place to drive an old human-driven car will be on a racing track or specially enclosed places.

PrMinisterGR:

The first car to be certified was a Honda ( https://medium.com/0xmachina/the-worlds-first-sae-l3-certified-self-driving-car-is-here-but-it-is-not-from-tesla-64bf2aa0f60a ) And that was "just" for L3. L4 and L5 is no one at the moment. Tesla will probably face criminal responsibility, both for misleading consumers with the "Autopilot" name and the full self-driving promise, and for obvious safety reasons. In Germany the name "Autopilot" was banned, because it was basically deemed to be a marketing scam. https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltaylor/2020/07/14/german-court-bans-tesla-autopilot-name-for-misleading-customers/ The first L3 vehicle allowed to actually be used in the EU is a Mercedes, which actually passed testing and got a certification. https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/mercedes-opens-sales-level-3-self-driving-system-s-class-eqs The problem is that people have been paying for "Autopilot" for almost a decade now, and the fancy screen makes it seem cool, but Tesla cars are actually not certified as L3 vehicles in most of the world. I wonder why 😛

I think that's a bit confusing since just because Honda has L3 certification and Tesla does not, implies Honda's is more advanced. That isn't the case. It's just Tesla is aiming straight for L5. Honda's L3 system can't navigate junctions, roundabouts etc like Tesla's does atm. This video shows it as barely more than cruise control. [youtube=Z7Szu3JHIYs] Not a patch on what Teslas are capable of.

Horus-Anhur:

This seems like DLC, but for cars. When I thought of a dystopian future, this was not what I had in mind. 🙄

Just like BMW with heated seat subscriptions...

BLEH!:

Just like BMW with heated seat subscriptions...

Yep. that's another good example.

Level 2 is like letting a drunk driver operate your car. (whoops, rammed into ANOTHER police car...) It's a complete scam to be marketed like this. Level 4/5 (where it actually drives without a human) may never happen. "full self driving" Right... That's $15,000 cruise control.

mdk77777:

Yup, a slow metro that requires a car for every person and backs up on busy days just like a traffic jam. The worst of car and train massed together and yet others are thinking of doing the same!!! It just goes to show that reason and logic has nothing to do with the emotional hysteria, manic religion that is the green revolution. Need to save the world but running massive computations to do nothing (bitcoin) is a great idea. The US will now pay you (if you are lower income) to replace all your appliances.....save a few dollars a year on electricity and fill the landfills with perfectly good appliances.....yeah that will save the world from pollution. The list is infinite. I will buy the last internal combustion car made and hold on to until I die. BECAUSE DESPITE THEIR MANIC WISH OF OUTLAWING ICE BY 2030....it will be many decades....longer than i will live before it is actually feasible to accomplish.

a bit over the line into weird and factually untrue politics. the US buying new appliances to replace old power hungry appliances for the poor is stimulus to the white goods industry and generates more taxes than it costs over the life of the new appliance. after all there are workers in the supply-chain and wage earners still have depressed incomes from the Covid economic contraction - and are at risk of losing work - which would cost far more money for all of the remaining tax payers as they've got to pay for food stamps etc. this is to keep what's left of an industry in America in America. and none of the appliances are luxury level. please do more than repeat right wing talk radio where fact is indistinguishable from fiction.

on cars and Elon Musk i have always adored cars and still can recognize make and model at a distance. if i had more aptitude i would be considered a gearhead as i love the engineering but i'm nobody's mechanic. so excuse me when i talk about the merits of electric cars - they're better in every way than internal combustion at this point. range is no issue because supercars have less of a range than regular cars anyway and all of the above would need modifications to go further, whether an extra tank or battery pack. the biggest minus of electric vehicles was utility and selection. now Ford has blown up the perceived lack of utility with the F-150 Lightning - which is categorically superior to every production truck in existence by any measure except price. for speed freaks, electric cars are MUCH quicker off the mark than ANY Ferrari and can achieve the same top speeds. and as a person living in the American West, with our vast distances and big mountains and our nature as a tourist destination, range and utility were the only questions. finally we are at a place that when i go to lake Tahoe or Yosemite (for example) a person can take their F-150 and tow their fancy caravan UP the mountain AT the speed limit, which was impossible until now. on Elon Musk... i used to be a fanboy and now not so much. he's still a genius, but that genius does not extend to his mouth or his love of cameras.

https://twitter.com/HumanVsMachine/status/1561748960548642817 Just watch this. And please tell me that self-driving will never happen...

I think it's ridiculous that BMW has heated seat subscriptions ($18 month). Hopefully this type of microtransactions fails and no other EV/self-driving manufacturers follow suit.

wavetrex:

https://twitter.com/HumanVsMachine/status/1561748960548642817 Just watch this. And please tell me that self-driving will never happen...

i agree. but there is a difference between would and should. there should be ZERO self-driving allowed without a state controlled road interface (smart reflectors) CONTROLLING traffic. where i live there's an infamous case of a local official (in a Very Fancy town) in Silicon Valley being drunk and passed out behind the wheel of his P100D which was in full self-driving mode. it took the California Highway Patrol 10 miles to get the car stopped (five blocks away from me as i watched @ Starbucks). so yes self driving cars will happen, no State DMV's shouldn't allow it on any road that doesn't have an interface

It's just a matter of the self driving software to be trained to react to police indications, which apparently wasn't yet implemented at the time of that event. I can guarantee that such thing will exist in the software before it's certified to be used by any average Joe. --- Edit: Something that is not easy to test in real life because most people driving are not pulled over by the police... Considering the number of cars on the road, and the number of teslas, and the number of drivers in teslas committing some kind of infraction needing pullover, they have very few chances to record such an event. My guess is police checks and stops will need lots of simulations in order to train the AI to properly react to them.

wavetrex:

It's just a matter of the self driving software to be trained to react to police indications, which apparently wasn't yet implemented at the time of that event. I can guarantee that such thing will exist in the software before it's certified to be used by any average Joe.

In the meantime the average joe with a Tesla can turn it on now and collide with me on my motorcycle. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/08/tesla-faces-new-probes-into-motorbike-deaths-false-advertising/ _ I think it's obvious at some point full level 5 self driving will happen and be safe.. but it's going to take years and in the meantime they are asking for $15K for a system that doesn't exist and may not exist during the entire lifespan of the car.