tty8k:

They did mention double digit performance increase over AL, but I wasn't expecting this much lol. AMD better come up with some crazy magic or there won't be a point releasing zen4 at the same time as this.

It has 8 more E-cores, of which are 14% faster in clock speed. If there wasn't a double-digit performance increase over AL, Intel would be doing something seriously wrong. I would say these benchmarks are pretty well lined up with what we should expect from the known changes.

AMD is going to have to shift focus to "moar cores for less" again like they did with Zen 1. They won't be able to compete with the next 2 Intel gens with raw horsepower.

tty8k:

They did mention double digit performance increase over AL, but I wasn't expecting this much lol. AMD better come up with some crazy magic or there won't be a point releasing zen4 at the same time as this.

You do realize Zen 3 is one and a half years old now right? I mean unless AMD stood pat for all this time them getting a substantial performance increase with Zen 4 would not be crazy magic at all.

Nothing groundbreaking, this 11700KF @ 5G will serve me for a long long time 😀

Kool64:

AMD is going to have to shift focus to "moar cores for less" again like they did with Zen 1. They won't be able to compete with the next 2 Intel gens with raw horsepower.

Last time I checked more cores is also more raw horsepower. You know, if you give a car six cylinders instead of four, you typically also give it more horsepower. If we are talking about real raw horsepower, let's first see how Intel's return to the HEDT looks like.

Kaarme:

Last time I checked more cores is also more raw horsepower. You know, if you give a car six cylinders instead of four, you typically also give it more horsepower. If we are talking about real raw horsepower, let's first see how Intel's return to the HEDT looks like.

that's not the same thing though especially with gaming. Just think about how much faster the 7700K was vs the 1800X in gaming. Most people can get by with minimal amounts of cores if they get the best gaming speeds. AMD set the core wars in motion but they'll have to do it again to stay competitive to Intel's low and midrange options.

tty8k:

They did mention double digit performance increase over AL, but I wasn't expecting this much lol. AMD better come up with some crazy magic or there won't be a point releasing zen4 at the same time as this.

Like what? Are you even looking at the same graphs as me? Like... Zen 3 is only just barely defeated by Raptor Lake in these tests. I don't know how thick the wool over your eyes is, but you might wanna consider a shave at this point.

Kool64:

AMD is going to have to shift focus to "moar cores for less" again like they did with Zen 1. They won't be able to compete with the next 2 Intel gens with raw horsepower.

Again, not sure what kind of blind fanboyism this is, but they're beating Zen 3 by single digit amounts here, and Zen 3 will have been launched two years earlier than Raptor Lake by the time it launches. This is hilariously underwhelming for something that supposedly has a 2x higher core and 50% higher thread count. xD

Imglidinhere:

Again, not sure what kind of blind fanboyism this is, but they're beating Zen 3 by single digit amounts here, and Zen 3 will have been launched two years earlier than Raptor Lake by the time it launches. This is hilariously underwhelming for something that supposedly has a 2x higher core and 50% higher thread count. xD

what the hell are you on about? Alder lake crushes Zen in pretty much everything minus the games that do great on X3D (which is an impressive feat) but being that Zen 4 is probably only slightly faster than AL there won’t be enough gains to beat Raptor Lake. So is AMD still planning on charging top dollar for the same amount of cores? Given that Zen 4 will not support DDR 4 at all this puts Intel squarely back in the budget and top end sectors. Zen 4 doesn’t really have a place on the economic ladder.

Kool64:

what the hell are you on about? Alder lake crushes Zen in pretty much everything minus the games that do great on X3D (which is an impressive feat) but being that Zen 4 is probably only slightly faster than AL there won’t be enough gains to beat Raptor Lake. So is AMD still planning on charging top dollar for the same amount of cores? Given that Zen 4 will not support DDR 4 at all this puts Intel squarely back in the budget and top end sectors. Zen 4 doesn’t really have a place on the economic ladder.

The budget sector always depends on the whole package, so it's difficult to predict. However, Intel certainly is in a better position there. AMD might only conquer it if they actually made a relatively cheap APU with enough power for real 1080p gaming. And has such an APU made in sufficient numbers. The OEMs can't afford a chip they don't receive in large quantities. Intel, with its own fabrication plants, will always beat AMD in that respect. At the end of the day nobody buying a budget OEM PC will even dream of having top performance, so in that sense having top performance isn't the crucial thing. Anyone buying a top PC won't get DDR4 for it, so that's inconsequential. If a top PC gamer is playing at 4k, the GPU will be the limit, so as long as AMD doesn't lose by much, it would be enough. AMD won't lose in multithreading anyway, due to having more full cores, whereas Intel will only have eight of them. A person needing 400 fps at lower res is a niche user, who will pick their parts accordingly and very specifically, whether it's Intel or some 3D cache AMD. We can't really say anything about the perfomances before reviews, nor anything about the prices before we see the official pricing announcements or price tags. It's kind of weird to claim that AMD would purposefully perform a suicide and Intel make all the right choices. I mean, come on. AMD might have had a rough past, but it was founded in 1969, only a single year later than Intel. You think they are totally incapable of doing business?

I thought that since most of us have been around PCs for three decades, we'd have learned not to put too much faith into synthetic benchmarks by now. They're always impressive, until contrasted with actual real-world performance. I suppose it always gets people talking though.

Kaarme:

AMD might have had a rough past, but it was founded in 1969, only a single year later than Intel. You think they are totally incapable of doing business?

It's not that they can't run a business but that they are falling(likely) back into the FXxxxx days of mediocrity but this time they won't have the budget offerings that made decent low end gaming machines. Of course they are rising in the server space more so so maybe that's where they'll win. I've been running AMD chips since the early 90s so I'm quite the fan and would hate to see them drop back to "only if you have to" status.

Kool64:

It's not that they can't run a business but that they are falling(likely) back into the FXxxxx days of mediocrity but this time they won't have the budget offerings that made decent low end gaming machines. Of course they are rising in the server space more so so maybe that's where they'll win. I've been running AMD chips since the early 90s so I'm quite the fan and would hate to see them drop back to "only if you have to" status.

We know AMD can't produce as many CPUs as Intel in normal times, and Zen 3 was released mid pandemic with poor availability. Intel can and will cut down good chips to fill a segment. The bins very likely just didn't exist for AMD to sell lower end Zen 3 parts, and it's unreasonable to expect them to cut down functional chips they barely have. It would seem the Zen 3 fabrication just doesn't result in less than 6 core chiplets. Price cuts to the previous (yet still compatible) gen should have made up for this. I don't get why everyone seems to be pretending Zen 3 was released with normal production capacity, as if AMD wanted to sell less during a global pandemic. The 5800X3D is still a great option for people that literally just care about frames in games, and that should be cheaper by the time Zen 4 releases. With Zen 4 being a whole new DDR5 only platform, I more or less expect Ryzen 6000 Zen 3+ to make up the lower end desktop parts.

blkspade:

I more or less expect Ryzen 6000 Zen 3+ to make up the lower end desktop parts.

Zen 4 is pretty much already Zen3+ though. That's the problem.