cryohellinc:

To my understanding from past news, their backward compatibility should apply for all the previous platforms - 1,2,3,4. Is it not? Why skip 3? That won't make any sense..

Well 1 and 2 can be easier software emulated. Due to the insane power of the PS5, this shouldnt be an issue, even the ps4 could do this. 3 was a different beast, the cell processor is insanely hard to emulate for, and they can run the games hardware wise as they would need to basically remake the game using different code (and unlikely for them to do this). So either they put in a mini CPU to run it, or they have found a good way to emulate it on their end. Like i really hope you're right, but it was such odd tech that its been hard to emulate. We will just have to see, i'd love if they can do it. I'm just not holding my breath, Part of me is hoping they do what Microsoft are doing and allowing for old titles to make use of the extra power, with increased resolution or increased framerates. EDIT: Also i'm not sure what the stance is right now with Discs, PS1 and PS2 they might just allow the use of discs cause theyre so old. but chances are we might have to rebuy them again on the store. As for ps3 should be easier to run from a disc, just issues above

Ricepudding:

Well 1 and 2 can be easier software emulated. Due to the insane power of the PS5, this shouldnt be an issue, even the ps4 could do this. 3 was a different beast, the cell processor is insanely hard to emulate for, and they can run the games hardware wise as they would need to basically remake the game using different code (and unlikely for them to do this). So either they put in a mini CPU to run it, or they have found a good way to emulate it on their end. Like i really hope you're right, but it was such odd tech that its been hard to emulate. We will just have to see, i'd love if they can do it. I'm just not holding my breath, Part of me is hoping they do what Microsoft are doing and allowing for old titles to make use of the extra power, with increased resolution or increased framerates. EDIT: Also i'm not sure what the stance is right now with Discs, PS1 and PS2 they might just allow the use of discs cause theyre so old. but chances are we might have to rebuy them again on the store. As for ps3 should be easier to run from a disc, just issues above

Good point regarding the PS3 architecture - it indeed infamous for how hard it is to program for it. But then again the only real party here that can come up with a proper solution for it is, gasp, Sony. For me if PS1 / 2 /3 / 4 games would be available, even for a small price, that would be a fantastic sale. 60 Euro worth of 1 modern trash game, or, for example, 12 games worth 5 eur each from past gens. The choice would be ovious. But oh well, let's see. My hopes are that the design that floats around the web right now will not be the actual PS5 (I find it hideous).

EngEd:

If this becomes true, there is no way PS5 or Xbox Series X will run anything above 4K60, so why is it claimed that it can run games at 8K? or is this just support for movies at 8K??, Anyway even at 4k60 all games will need ultimate optimization to pull it off. Which I sam sure that will happen like on the PS4 and Xbox one x, checkerboarding etc...but this time with true 60 fps and not at 30fps. My 1080Ti has 11 Tflops, it cant run latest games at 4K60, mostly due to bad optimization by game developers, a 2080ti can do it better of course and the upcoming 3000 series cards will most definetly do it with even higher frames and with less frame time. So my question is, why dont PS5 and Xbox one X use the latest unreleased cutting edge graphics cards like the upcoming 3000 series from Nvidia or upcoming AMD cards in their console systems? I guess we will find out how it runs, but only if people has already bought one of the consoles?? Why are they using "existing" or similar performance AMD cards which already has been released and tested and proven that it cant run 4k60fps at max settings, unless you bump down the image quality dramatically? I know that a console build is an complete embedded system, and that a 11 or 12 TFLOPS integrated GPU might perform totally different, but I think its an marketing gimmick.. We need real tests and proofs of latest heavy games to see how these console perform and how they perform against a high end PC build with similar specs or better. Only than we can say, ok this is truly a next-gen console. Going from 4k30 to just 4k60 is OK, but I cant call it next-gen high performance console...Its mereley an hardware upgrade as we PC gamers upgrade our cards to acheive higher frames at higher resolutions.

Why not lmao? 4K60FPS would be easly possible with RDNA 2 because it's gaming focused. And 8K30 is really possible too.

cryohellinc:

Good point regarding the PS3 architecture - it indeed infamous for how hard it is to program for it. But then again the only real party here that can come up with a proper solution for it is, gasp, Sony. For me if PS1 / 2 /3 / 4 games would be available, even for a small price, that would be a fantastic sale. 60 Euro worth of 1 modern trash game, or, for example, 12 games worth 5 eur each from past gens. The choice would be ovious. But oh well, let's see. My hopes are that the design that floats around the web right now will not be the actual PS5 (I find it hideous).

Think you might be being a little too hopeful, as i dont think the Discs will work... so chances are you're going to be paying 5-15euros per a game to get the digital version of it again. Similar to the price of the JAX games, of course on sale could be less than that. Which i'm okay with this for the most part as some i dont own anymore. But the big issue is for games such as Simpsons Hit and Run, this wont be available again, and its owned by multiple companies who wont re-release it, and who knows how many games are im limbo like this. So hopefully discs work, problem is was how easy piracy was on them, ps1 didn't even have protection on the data inside! So this might turn sony away You are right though Sony are the best people to get the ps5 to run ps3 games, and honestly if they can do that, and let them run native 4k that would be perfect or even run perfect 30/60fps depending on the lock they had Personally I've love modern games, such as God of war and Spiderman and even Horizon zero dawn. But as always games are a matter of taste and mine might be different from yours. Not all games are made equal but looking at past generations it is easy to see all the good games and great games and ignore the bad ones.

Ricepudding:

Well 1 and 2 can be easier software emulated. Due to the insane power of the PS5, this shouldnt be an issue, even the ps4 could do this. 3 was a different beast, the cell processor is insanely hard to emulate for, and they can run the games hardware wise as they would need to basically remake the game using different code (and unlikely for them to do this). So either they put in a mini CPU to run it, or they have found a good way to emulate it on their end. Like i really hope you're right, but it was such odd tech that its been hard to emulate. We will just have to see, i'd love if they can do it. I'm just not holding my breath, Part of me is hoping they do what Microsoft are doing and allowing for old titles to make use of the extra power, with increased resolution or increased framerates. EDIT: Also i'm not sure what the stance is right now with Discs, PS1 and PS2 they might just allow the use of discs cause theyre so old. but chances are we might have to rebuy them again on the store. As for ps3 should be easier to run from a disc, just issues above

I do not think the bluray hd player can read DVD too. CDs are not compatible with PS4 either, so disc compatibility is out fo questions for PS1, i do not think we can put a DVD in the drive too, so that rule out the PS2 also in that case. Also DISC won't be allowed because the old hardware protections are not in place in the new console and so no way they are going to just read a disc with something on it.

asturur:

I do not think the bluray hd player can read DVD too. CDs are not compatible with PS4 either, so disc compatibility is out fo questions for PS1, i do not think we can put a DVD in the drive too, so that rule out the PS2 also in that case. Also DISC won't be allowed because the old hardware protections are not in place in the new console and so no way they are going to just read a disc with something on it.

Never tried a CD disc so unsure there, but i know it can play DVD as i've watched DVD's from my ps4 before ( far as i know ps2 used the same if not very similar discs). The protect, unsure. PS2 protection could be added to the ps5, PS1 there isnt a way to do the wobble... though i guess in theory this could be added as well? just depends on the level of detail they want to go down. I think its likely they will just be emulated from downloads from the store... Sadly if it goes down this route many games wont be playable due to license issues with many titles.

asturur:

I do not think the bluray hd player can read DVD too. CDs are not compatible with PS4 either, so disc compatibility is out fo questions for PS1, i do not think we can put a DVD in the drive too, so that rule out the PS2 also in that case. Also DISC won't be allowed because the old hardware protections are not in place in the new console and so no way they are going to just read a disc with something on it.

as far for protection in PS1/PS2 era... bypass chip "modchip" was common things back then [youtube=LlZA_mqSkEE] those protection system basically just in the "header", there rest is not straight-forward / non-encrypted so if sony allow the drive can read CD/DVD, it shouldnt be a problem But again nowdays, only game collector that still owning bunch of CD/DVD games want backward compability most/casual player would just buy off from PSstore people really dont want spend any money on those classic games, well there is a "way" http://wololo.net/2018/01/23/running-ps2-isos-ps4-4-05/

People don´t remenber that Render resolution can vary from displayed resolution, consoles can process 1280x720 or 1600x900 and display 1920x1080p, some PC games can do same greetings!

SweenJM:

These next gen consoles pack a pretty decent amount of power. I think maybe they have finally edged out pc in price versus performance. Even if they cost 6 or 7 hundred dollars, it would take at least 1000 bucks worth of computer to top it. It isnt going to sway me towards console gaming, but it's kinda neat to see.

It is exactly the same situation as previous gen consoles. On announcement, they are current PC gen high end. When they are finally released, they are one PC gen behind. And of course from that point PCs go their own way. Anyway, buying a console (XBox) beside my PC is a no-brainer, especially how interoperable those are these days.

As usual people seem to forget that games made for consoles can run on inferior hardware because they're optimized for just one or two platforms. The specs of PS5 are very good.

schmidtbag:

As usual people seem to forget that games made for consoles can run on inferior hardware because they're optimized for just one or two platforms. The specs of PS5 are very good.

Well I'm quite sure that only in-house exclusive production will get good optimization, rest not so much, as we've seen even with current consoles. Especially next gen developers have the older gen consoles(for the first few years), new gen consoles, PC, Stadia(and other streaming platforms coming) and Switch(to a lesser degree, since ports seem to come out later) to worry about. They won't spend time optimizing(no money in it), most likely they'll just get the games running decently and move on, like now. From reports, no developers are doing only next gen games, so a lot of platforms to optimize for.

Funny how many still dont seem to know the difference between video output and rendering res. Any console and its limits for power/thermals, will NEVER render the game at the same res the tvs do. From the beginning, 4K was done with upscaling, same as it will be for 8K. And that the xb will be more powerful is irrelevant when you dont have any exclusive titles for 2y. There is a reason why ps outsells xb by 1:2-5, nothing the bit more powernon the xb will change.

fry178:

Funny how many still dont seem to know the difference between video output and rendering res. Any console and its limits for power/thermals, will NEVER render the game at the same res the tvs do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_One_X_enhanced_games

They will still target 30 or simply leave it unlocked and use VRR with HDMI2.1 to pick up the slack without needing to bother. 8k is useless, we don't need more pixels, we need better quality pixels and better displays. This cycle of shoving out new display resolutions, and then spending an entire generation without console hardware to be able to actually render at that true native resolution is getting annoying. A problem that never existed with CRTs. All that power and it will still probably squandered and they will continue to offer little choice to the user in how to play the game. (Resolution/frame rate options) A 2080 is a FP32 10 TFLOP GPU and there is a so much flexibility in the choices you have. It can run tons of current and existing games at 60+FPS at 4k. (The ones it can't, you can generally reduce settings to hit 60 or if it's unoptimized you can hit 30 easily. In some cases just dropping to 1800p or 1944p will be enough to hit 60FPS with max settings) Or you can easily hit 120+FPS at lower resolutions, with older games you can hit 4k120 no problem. Or you can target 1080p60 and get near CG like image quality with high quality Anti Aliasing. I doubt we will see anything of the sort here. Backwards compatibility will probably not take advantage of the extra power beyond making less stable games more stable maybe. Or be forced to buy a new edition or update to take advantage of the hardware.(For the small minority of companies that will bother to even do it if possible) If we are lucky, we finally might even see 16xAF across all current games even! /shock awe. If it's anything like Microsoft, only a select number of games will be BC. And if there's enhancements and even smaller select few would get that. I'll be shocked if there is even PS1/PS2 compatibility. I'll use Dead Rising as an example of a current game in it's PS4 iteration (Since it's a port of a last gen game)and comparable PC hardware of the time. It came out around the time of the PS4Pro, which they tout as having a 4+Tflop GPU. On a GTX 980, with 25% higher FP32 performance 5.2ish or whatever the number is. The PS4 version isn't pro enabled so you are stuck with the bog standard set up . 1920x1080 60FPS with 2xMSAA and what looks to be 4xAF, adaptive Vsync (with performance drops). And this is a port of a last gen game so you'd think there'd be all this extra headroom for better quality. A GTX 980 +1st generation i7 from 2008 can run the same game at 3456x1944 60FPS with 16xAF, 2xMSAA ,MFAA, 2xSGSSAA and only drop the framerate in one very specific section of the game. The PS4 Pro at the very least should've been capable of running at least 3200x1800 + 16xAF and 2xMSAA without drops with all that extra optimization they can supposedly get with only with consoles. Dead Rising 2 runs even worse on PS4, similar set up. Poor texture filtering, only post process AA.No PS4 Pro support. No Xbox One X support. Same PC set up above can run at 1080p with 16xAF and 8xSGSSAA at 60FPS. (Probably near 4k60 with only PPAA) We are entirely at the mercy of the developers to even bother putting any effort in to take advantage of the power they have available. Something that became incredibly apparent this generation. There is no user choice to be able to make any changes like on PC to try and get more out of the hardware. And if there is they are half baked. I'm sure we'll see more of this. The value proposition when you consider stuff like this and backwards compatibility and user choice as a whole. Consoles are very low. The barrier of entry is low. But you will be stuck having to re buy a game to take advantage of any hardware improvements if it's deemed worthy enough to invest the time for a publisher in a re-release. Meanwhile on PC of comparable hardware, all you need is new hardware and a game that was ported correctly (There are a lot that aren't) to start with and the doors are wide open to improve things or play the way you want and not be stuck at a low framerate.

@Denial again, just cause it has 4K output doesnt mean the game is rendered at actual 4k (vs upscaled). some 30fps titles maybe, but not any of the latest titles, when my 2080S@2ghz can just do cod ww2 @4k, and cant even crank up settings @MrBonk yeah, lets spend +500$ so i can play 20y old titles, lol. and regarding ps3/4: how many ppl do you know have games but not the console to play it? i want them to make use of all that the hw can deliver, and not cripple it so, just so some can play old stuff again. at some point "you" have to drop backwards compatibility,.and i rather see them doing it now.

fry178:

@Denial again, just cause it has 4K output doesnt mean the game is rendered at actual 4k (vs upscaled). some 30fps titles maybe, but not any of the latest titles, when my 2080S@2ghz can just do cod ww2 @4k, and cant even crank up settings

Agreed, this keeps getting lost in translation somewhere. Take a look at any of the current consoles from the Switch to PS4 Pro / Xbox One X - they are all upscaling in many cases to meet the output resolution they are supposedly designed for.

fry178:

@MrBonk yeah, lets spend +500$ so i can play 20y old titles, lol. and regarding ps3/4: how many ppl do you know have games but not the console to play it? and want them to make use of all the hw can deliver, and not cripple it so some can play old stuff again. at some point "you" have to drop backwards compatibility,.and i rather see them doing it now.

Backwards compatibility is good as a value-added proposition. There are a lot of people with stacks of old games and a broken console or controllers broken/missing etc.

fry178:

@Denial again, just cause it has 4K output doesnt mean the game is rendered at actual 4k (vs upscaled). some 30fps titles maybe, but not any of the latest titles, when my 2080S@2ghz can just do cod ww2 @4k, and cant even crank up settings @MrBonk yeah, lets spend +500$ so i can play 20y old titles, lol. and regarding ps3/4: how many ppl do you know have games but not the console to play it? i want them to make use of all that the hw can deliver, and not cripple it so, just so some can play old stuff again. at some point "you" have to drop backwards compatibility,.and i rather see them doing it now.

SamuelL421:

Agreed, this keeps getting lost in translation somewhere. Take a look at any of the current consoles from the Switch to PS4 Pro / Xbox One X - they are all upscaling in many cases to meet the output resolution they are supposedly designed for. Backwards compatibility is good as a value-added proposition. There are a lot of people with stacks of old games and a broken console or controllers broken/missing etc.

...

Any console and its limits for power/thermals, will NEVER render the game at the same res the tvs do.

This sentence has pretty specific meaning - especially when you capitalize never. In that list, I know Witcher 3, Tomb Raider, The F1 series, Forza, all run native 4K. I'm sure a bunch others do as well. If you want to move the goalposts to "4K@60fps, titles that come out this year" then fine but that's not stated at all in the post I quoted. There was plenty of games when XB1X came out (2017) that were modern and running 4K native. A 11/12Tflop GPU will easily manage that in far more games without upscaling and probably manage it at 60fps as well. Now whether developers will choose to add high quality assets/shaders and forgo 4K and use upscaling is a different thing all together. Even now there are plenty of games I can hit 4K 60fps on with my 1080Ti that I'd rather play then most modern titles where I can't. Games like Ori, Abzu, etc all look beautiful at 4K and i'm sure 8K and having the ability for the Xbox/PS5 to natively handle that res will be a great option for those developers.

If PS5 accepts discs of PS1,2,3 and 4 it would be perfect. But if not, I would be satisfied if I could use my PSN library of old games on PS5.

yeah, should have said for past/existing stuff, not never. but definitely limited to a couple titles, and definitely not "cranked up" settings like AA/AF. and your 1080ti is a good example. whats the power/heat on it? now compared to the power/thermals possible on a console with space being another limit, and you haven't even begun feeding all other components with power, or cooling them. and i should have stated not just at 4k, but with eye candy turned on. otherwise i would still be on console.. ps5 will support most ps4 titles afaict.

fredgml7:

If PS5 accepts discs of PS1,2,3 and 4 it would be perfect. But if not, I would be satisfied if I could use my PSN library of old games on PS5.

I expect PS1 and PS4 to work. PS2 should work the hardware of the PS5. PS3 though is such a weird CPU.