fantaskarsef:

As much as I'm dying for some new info as the next guy, where does it really hint at that? Nowhere, sadly... 😉

from here: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/geforce-at-gamescom-2018.422261/#post-5569697

Pascal refresh will be a major disappointment (for me at least). Looking forward to Volta (or something else maybe?).

cryohellinc:

Pascal refresh will be a major disappointment (for me at least). Looking forward to Volta (or something else maybe?).

It has been long time, you never know what "refresh" brings.

If it's just a refresh with little to no real performance gain, they won't sell cards at all. I think that'd be a tragic mistake and would lose them lots of $. And the worst, afterwards they are complaining about the gaming market collapsing and all that rubbish.

Fox2232:

It has been long time, you never know what "refresh" brings.

Minor performance bump, gddr6 and nothing new.

Haha I remember people arguing with me about Nvidia using 7nm for their next gen cards. Where are you now guys? My guess of 12nm GDDR6 refresh was right. also I guarantee low volumes and high pricing to make sure Pascal is still doing fine at least in the first few weeks

I mean, seriously... where's the barrier for a "worthy" upgrade? For me personally those wouldn't be worth flashing out that kind of money again for a 1180Ti that is 15% faster than my current card.

fantaskarsef:

I mean, seriously... where's the barrier for a "worthy" upgrade? For me personally those wouldn't be worth flashing out that kind of money again for a 1180Ti that is 15% faster than my current card.

For me its a bit of a hard decision right now. I'm going to move soon, hence every penny counts. But then again getting rid of my current GPU is also a priority as Pascal is the most wide-spread infestation of a GPU. The market is FILLED with them, once next GPU lineup comes, Pascal's price will drop INSTANTLY by god knows how much. So to my logic right now, 1180 whatever it will be, even 15% performance increase will be enough to get rid of my 1080Ti, sell it and rather invest that cash into new GPU. As 4-6 months later, 400-500 Euro you can get for a second hand Ti now, will drop to 200 when all the miner scum will start selling their overused trash state GPU's. Or if 1180 will be a refresh, and provide 5-10% performance increase, Ti will still be strong (just a guess thou).

fantaskarsef:

I mean, seriously... where's the barrier for a "worthy" upgrade? For me personally those wouldn't be worth flashing out that kind of money again for a 1180Ti that is 15% faster than my current card.

You do realize you are complaining about performance gains of imaginable/unreleased product that you created in your mind? Just pointing it out before you hurt your brain. 1. How about waiting for a finished product review before being outraged. 2. When was the last time that x80Ti was only 15% faster than previous x80Ti? Stop making up nonsense. 3. Feels like your are trying to play down the performance of upcoming cards because you are salty about your 1080Ti no longer being the top dog.

cryohellinc:

For me its a bit of a hard decision right now. I'm going to move soon, hence every penny counts. But then again getting rid of my current GPU is also a priority as Pascal is the most wide-spread infestation of a GPU. The market is FILLED with them, once next GPU lineup comes, Pascal's price will drop INSTANTLY by god knows how much. So to my logic right now, 1180 whatever it will be, even 15% performance increase will be enough to get rid of my 1080Ti, sell it and rather invest that cash into new GPU. As 4-6 months later, 400-500 Euro you can get for a second hand Ti now, will drop to 200 when all the miner scum will start selling their overused trash state GPU's. Or if 1180 will be a refresh, and provide 5-10% performance increase, Ti will still be strong (just a guess thou).

Bitcoin went like 30% up in last 2 weeks. And market depth looks rather balanced today. I think miners are going to keep those GPUs bit longer as they did not sold them when bitcoin was at around $6000. +they may even try to grab new GPUs if they are more power efficient. And even then they will not dump old ones unless they are running out of space.

cryohellinc:

For me its a bit of a hard decision right now. I'm going to move soon, hence every penny counts. But then again getting rid of my current GPU is also a priority as Pascal is the most wide-spread infestation of a GPU. The market is FILLED with them, once next GPU lineup comes, Pascal's price will drop INSTANTLY by god knows how much. So to my logic right now, 1180 whatever it will be, even 15% performance increase will be enough to get rid of my 1080Ti, sell it and rather invest that cash into new GPU. As 4-6 months later, 400-500 Euro you can get for a second hand Ti now, will drop to 200 when all the miner scum will start selling their overused trash state GPU's. Or if 1180 will be a refresh, and provide 5-10% performance increase, Ti will still be strong (just a guess thou).

Yeah, your argument with the aftermarket makes sense. I usually gift my cards to friends or arrange deals, not really out there to make money off of Pascal. If that's the idea behind it though, you are absolutely right to not wait for the saturation of used Pascal cards coming from miners. But yes, if it's a minor upgrade (anything below 15% or even below 20%), I'll probably skip it, being a very sad enthusiast.

Glottiz:

You do realize you are complaining about performance gains of imaginable/unreleased product that you created in your mind? Just pointing it out before you hurt your brain. 1. How about waiting for a finished product review before being outraged. 2. When was the last time that x80Ti was only 15% faster than previous x80Ti? Stop making up nonsense. 3. Feels like your are trying to play down the performance of upcoming cards because you are salty about your 1080Ti no longer being the top dog.

And before you edited your post:

3. I have a sense that you bought your 1080Ti very late and now your mind is coping and trying to come up with reasons why new GeForce cards will be slow.

Oh boy, so much nonsense. First, complaining is a little exaggerated on your part. I asked on what a worthy upgrade is, then said 15% won't make me flash out 1000€ for a new card + waterblock. I guess your brain already hurt when you typed down that post, since you're the only one calling outraging here. 1. I don't know what your problem is here when people say they won't buy a refresh because of too little improvement for a big investment. That's only sensible and based on a logical comparison between expected pricing and the expected performance if it's a refresh. So where's the outrage when logically weighting between cost and effect? 2. If it's a refresh, it could be 15% faster due to clock speed improvements / GDDR6 only. No new architecture and the same node doesn't give you magical 50% upgrades. Yes, talking about a refresh here, maybe that's where you misunderstood me (and the others talking about a refresh). So stop making up any reason to annoy and attack me so you can feel better yourself. 3. Dude... you're just annoying. I could buy myself any new card the day it comes out. Or two. Doesn't make much sense though if it gives little to no performance increase, does it? To your first edit, no I got my 1080Ti two weeks after launch because I was waiting for the waterblock's availability. Maybe you bought your's sometime later, but honestly I don't care. Also, regarding your edited post, top dog performance, my card does very well with my current 1440p monitor. That won't change just because other cards are around, yet as an enthusiast I wish I had something new to toy with that brings any real game to the table, not just 200MHz extra on the clock, which is rather boring and won't push my fps magically. Hence, not a worthy upgrade. And if you forget, the Titan's the current top dog, not even our 1080TIs. But yeah I guess when you are more concentrated on your own fantasy there, it's hard to see the facts. I guess your brain really does hurt much. What I take away from your post, although only a side note of your's, yes we're just hypothetically discussing a card that's not yet released. You are right, it's of little use to think about it until we know more facts (presumably three weeks from now). So your first sentence is the only thing really making sense, and thanks for reminding us we're just discussing rumors, not even leaks, you are absolutely right in that regard. The rest... well... have a nice day.

It cannot be a refresh, they really cannot do that to us. Sure, there is no competition but I think that nVidia is watching what AMD is doing with Ryzen and understand that they might be on to something really good this time. Releasing a 1080Ti v.2 which is 5% faster is so extremely pointless and I don't think they take their customers for fools. I think and hope that the difference in speed this iteration will be larger than with past iterations just to make sure AMDs next card won't take the crown which nVidia has held on to for so long.

HardwareCaps:

Haha I remember people arguing with me about Nvidia using 7nm for their next gen cards. Where are you now guys?

Right here. https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/nvidia-next-generation-mainstream-gpu-detailed-in-august.421287/page-4 There is our posts This is what I said:

"With gaming cards your generation will be maxed out at ~20% faster than Pascal. As I stated twice, obviously Nvidia can technically do this, but it would be incredibly stupid - they'd ship 12nm 600mm2 refresh Q3/Q4 of this year and AMD can easily ship a 7nm half size Q1 next year - then what does Nvidia do? Refresh again in under a year? Or just wait and let Pascal sit another 6 months before 7nm is ready for a 1180 sized die?"

"Nvidia can ship 12nm GPUs this year - but it would be pointless to do so with 7nm so close to GPU ready production and AMD already announcing that they are moving to 7nm early next year. Thus I think Nvidia will wait a little longer and ship 7nm on TSMC, who again is months ahead, because it will put them that much further ahead of AMD."

"Nvidia will be shipping 7nm GPU's in the next year. I don't know if it will be "Volta" or what they will call it but they show absolutely zero signs of "napping on node shrinkage" they literally worked with TSMC to build their own node(FFN) because TSMC wasn't innovating it fast enough and the only thing holding them back from more sales is shrinking their GPUs to boost yields per wafer. They will 100% have more clout over 7nm on TSMC over AMD - the difference this time is TSMC needs 7nm customers because smartphone ships are plateauing so they can supply both companies. AMD is splitting production between GF/TSMC."

It doesn't surprise me that you don't remember the bolded parts because even in that thread your reading comprehension was terrible. Point is I agreed they could ship 12nm parts this year but it would be really dumb to ship them. I still hold the same position. They could have waited 3-4 more months and shipped on 7nm and it would have been a much better release. Baring some crazy tech we don't know about, I don't think this release (if 12nm) is going to be very good.

Netherwind:

It cannot be a refresh, they really cannot do that to us. Sure, there is no competition but I think that nVidia is watching what AMD is doing with Ryzen and understand that they might be on to something really good this time. Releasing a 1080Ti v.2 which is 5% faster is so extremely pointless and I don't think they take their customers for fools. I think and hope that the difference in speed this iteration will be larger than with past iterations just to make sure AMDs next card won't take the crown which nVidia has held on to for so long.

Wrong, AMD 7nm and Intel next year, if they don't make something good people wont bother buying it due to not being worth the upgrade, by doing this and delay they risk both AMD and Intel beat them, and this is just the tip of the Iceberg. Investors need money and board partners like ASUS and MSI already complained (i saw it on Guru3D in a phrase on an article about this same context) they aren't making money due to the cycle of GPU releases still didn't happen, they don't care if you or me think it's not the time to release it, NVIDIA doesn't make good GPUs to make us happy they make it to be the best so that people buy their products and it makes investors happy, delaying it puts that at risk, because not only AMD is going for 7nm which allows crazy improvements in clocks (doesn't mean the architecture is good obviously) we also have Intel GPUs next year. And like i said before they can always make a better product that a Ti, as in two version of a xx80 excluding the base one. I wonder if we will ever see a dual GPU cards like there used to be, since SLI was pretty much abandoned.

Denial:

I don't think this release (if 12nm) is going to be very good.

Yes this is the point, however they can always make 1180 12nm and then go for 1190 7nm, but i'm not sure that people would like this and probably feel betrayed lol.

And for just 1999.99! Cuz you know, we have so much old stock we could not have lowered the price to get rid of it.

EL1TE:

I wonder if we will ever see a dual GPU cards like there used to be, since SLI was pretty much abandoned.

Maybe not right now, and maybe not first for consumer cards, but eventually I can imagine that. More likely connected by NVlink, and not SLI, but yes I can imagine that some time in the future.

Glottiz:

You do realize you are complaining about performance gains of imaginable/unreleased product that you created in your mind? Just pointing it out before you hurt your brain. 1. How about waiting for a finished product review before being outraged. 2. When was the last time that x80Ti was only 15% faster than previous x80Ti? Stop making up nonsense. 3. Feels like your are trying to play down the performance of upcoming cards because you are salty about your 1080Ti no longer being the top dog.

Nothing like making a mountain out of a mole hill.... WTF over!?! Sounds more like you're worried about what someone else is going to do with their money/product than anything else. Not sure what you constitute complaining, but that's not what/how I read his comment...

Denial:

Right here. https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/nvidia-next-generation-mainstream-gpu-detailed-in-august.421287/page-4 There is our posts This is what I said: It doesn't surprise me that you don't remember the bolded parts because even in that thread your reading comprehension was terrible. Point is I agreed they could ship 12nm parts this year but it would be really dumb to ship them. I still hold the same position. They could have waited 3-4 more months and shipped on 7nm and it would have been a much better release. Baring some crazy tech we don't know about, I don't think this release (if 12nm) is going to be very good.

From what I've heard 7nm consumers GPUs are at the bottom of the list for AMD. they focus mainly on Ryzen and Professional GPUs(AI, datacenter) for now. so no worries Regardless Nvidia is leading in terms of performance so their 12nm should be inline with AMD's 7nm( we ofc can't know for sure) but if needed Nvidia could lower prices and release new more cost-effective cards to hit AMD just like they did with Vega and the 1070Ti which targeted it specifically.

fantaskarsef:

Maybe not right now, and maybe not first for consumer cards, but eventually I can imagine that. More likely connected by NVlink, and not SLI, but yes I can imagine that some time in the future.

I wish they never left SLI in the dust. Quad cards pumping along with proper support is something to truly behold. BF developers and the frostbite engine will contest to that. BF3-4 specifically... Man I do miss them days.....

DeskStar:

I wish they never left SLI in the dust. Quad cards pumping along with proper support is something to truly behold. BF developers and the frostbite engine will contest to that. BF3-4 specifically... Man I do miss them days.....

Yeah... I mean I had CFX with BF3, it was a PITA (because back then AMD was very slow with offering profiles), then I went for a single card, and gotten SLI afterwards (BF4 and BF1), and it was really cool... sadly, with BF1 I already felt the first problems when game updates broke SLI support...