Nvidia announced G-Sync - eliminates stutter and screen tearing with a daughter module

S3nt3nc3

2013-10-18 20:23

I see one potential downside of it. Eye strain. It takes me quite a while to get used to a monitor with a different refresh rate. My eyes hurt after 10-15 minutes even when i change refresh rate form 60 to 65 Hz and vice versa. Can't even imagine how bad it might be when it will fluctuate between 40~120Hz.

#4677985

MM10X

2013-10-18 20:58

@S3nt3nc3, I believe this is a smaller amount of people who have this issue. Personally, I can swap around refresh rates and the higher it gets the more comfortable my eyes feel. As its refresh as soon as the frame becomes available ... I don't see the low refresh rate being a problem. I do see your point though.

#4678006

wasteomind

2013-10-18 21:24

Thank **** this issue is finally getting more attention. As long as this doesn't have any significant downsides, I will be upgrading to have this. I ALWAYS use vsync as tearing and stuttering are the bane of my enjoyment. Even with vsync I noticed this issue and had given up hope there might ever be some solution. My goal the past generation has been 60fps @ 1080p and seeing drops into the 40s and 50s which should have been ok, have been agonizing. I thought I was going crazy, but this just confirms the issue with the technology at present. This is a step in the right direction and I am sold. I just really hope this isn't a software limited technology like the crap from Lucid. Good ideas ruined by crappy software and no development support.

#4678018

Clouseau

2013-10-18 21:44

Sounds like this eliminates the necessity of driver or programming optimization. If the gameplay is fluid enough fps has been completely removed from any argument.

#4678020

Xendance

2013-10-18 21:47

I see one potential downside of it. Eye strain. It takes me quite a while to get used to a monitor with a different refresh rate. My eyes hurt after 10-15 minutes even when i change refresh rate form 60 to 65 Hz and vice versa. Can't even imagine how bad it might be when it will fluctuate between 40~120Hz.

That isn't an issue with LCDs, since the pixels are always on. They just change the colour on each screen refresh.

Sounds like this eliminates the necessity of driver or programming optimization. If the gameplay is fluid enough fps has been completely removed from any argument.

This has nothing to do with game optimization... There might not be any tearing with g-sync, but you'd still notice it in the input. Can you imagine moving your mouse around if the screen updates at 10 fps? Getting the visual feedback from the movement would take 100 milliseconds.

#4678029

S3nt3nc3

2013-10-18 21:58

That isn't an issue with LCDs, since the pixels are always on. They just change the colour on each screen refresh.

Well, maybe for you it is not an issue. For me it can be really unpleasant experience. Don't know why.

#4678038

CPC_RedDawn

2013-10-18 22:05

I honestly might have missed something here, but Ive read the article and the comments. Is this going to work with AMD cards as well or is Nvidia doing what they always do and closing it off and locking it to their cards only like CUDA, PhysX, TXAA, etc, etc. At least AMD have the brains to allow OpenCL and soon Mantle to run on other architectures.

#4678041

WhiteLightning

Moderator

2013-10-18 22:07

At least AMD have the brains to allow OpenCL and soon Mantle to run on other architectures.

not mantle , you need gnc

#4678044

CPC_RedDawn

2013-10-18 22:09

not mantle , you need gnc

Yep they are.... Let me find the quote. EDIT: Here Essential principle #4: Don’t break games While Mantle is uniquely optimized for PCs containing the Graphics Core Next architecture, we recognize there other architectures in the market. Gamers with these architectures deserve good gameplay just as much as anyone else, and we have t designed Mantle in a way that respects their right to game well. Developers using Mantle are free to implement whatever optimizations they choose to maximize the performance of their game for everyone. Now, more than ever, Mantle assures that the choices a developer must make to optimize their game code for the leading PC graphics architectures are non-interfering choices.

#4678047

WhiteLightning

Moderator

2013-10-18 22:15

that doesnt say it will run on nvidia does it ?

From a mile-high perspective, Mantle is the harmony of three essential ingredients: A thin driver within the AMD Catalyst™ software suite that allows applications to speak directly to the Graphics Core Next architecture. A Graphics Core Next-enabled graphics chip, such as the AMD Radeon™ R9 Series, R7 Series or HD 7000 Series GPUs. And an application or game engine written to utilize the Mantle SDK, such as the Frostbite™ 3 engine within Battlefield™ 4.

#4678049

k3vst3r

2013-10-18 22:16

that doesnt say it will run on nvidia does it ?

Pretty much why carmack said he wouldn't use it tonight when asked

#4678052

DesGaizu

2013-10-18 22:18

that doesnt say it will run on nvidia does it ?

Johan said on stage at the nvidia conference that their end goal was to open it up and make it work on everything. Time will tell I guess.

#4678055

WhiteLightning

Moderator

2013-10-18 22:19

Johan said on stage at the nvidia conference that their end goal was to open it up and make it work on everything. Time will tell I guess.

well he was defending it , why shouldnt he ? he is in it elbow deep. tbh it felt like a odd moment when that question was asked.

#4678056

CPC_RedDawn

2013-10-18 22:25

that doesnt say it will run on nvidia does it ?

No it doesn't but what its saying is that other architectures. Like the ones from Nvidia, or Intel wont be hindered by it. Unlike PhysX. I need PhysX installed on my PC to even run/open certain games yet I can't use it at all only on CPU and we all know that is a complete waste of time. Sure games might add more effects through Mantle that won't run on Nvidia (which I really hope does not happen) all I am hoping for is more performance. I hate the way the PC market is going now, it is literally like Nvidia and AMD are purposely trying to create two markets. You either go green and play X games or you go red and play Y games. Which for me will be the end of PC gaming.

#4678058

DesGaizu

2013-10-18 22:25

well he was defending it , why shouldnt he ? he is in it elbow deep. tbh it felt like a odd moment when that question was asked.

Of course he is defending it, you don't dedicated years to something you think is not worth it. and yeah it was odd, tbh I thought it was odd that he had been invited I mean nvidia knows he's the leader on mantle, It was weird when the other 2 started questioning him and his choices even a slight mock at him at one point. Maybe that was nvidia's plan to have him their just to mock mantle on stage, either way I think he handled the situation very well.

#4678060

wasteomind

2013-10-18 22:26

That sounds like marketing spin for Mantle is ATI exclusive, but we won't mandate Mantle specific features (i.e. physx effects that are brand specific).

#4678061

mackintosh

2013-10-18 22:30

Sounds like this eliminates the necessity of driver or programming optimization. If the gameplay is fluid enough fps has been completely removed from any argument.

Wouldn't that just make their day. Never having to fix everything they've broken over the years. I'd still rather they fixed their bloody drivers first, though.

#4678078

WhiteLightning

Moderator

2013-10-18 22:43

No it doesn't but what its saying is that other architectures. Like the ones from Nvidia, or Intel wont be hindered by it. Unlike PhysX. I need PhysX installed on my PC to even run/open certain games yet I can't use it at all only on CPU and we all know that is a complete waste of time. Sure games might add more effects through Mantle that won't run on Nvidia (which I really hope does not happen) all I am hoping for is more performance. I hate the way the PC market is going now, it is literally like Nvidia and AMD are purposely trying to create two markets. You either go green and play X games or you go red and play Y games. Which for me will be the end of PC gaming.

well yeah hindered by not running it at all and running a different api. Yes you need physx installed, but its normal. you have directx installed, opengl and soon mantle. I can understand the frustration on the performance part as it indeed runs like crap. even for me! they did announce a performance boost though , even for AMD cards it said so on the slide in yesterdays event but it remains to be seen how much this is true. its all marketing after all. I agree its heading in the wrong direction it infact was part of the reason why i bought a nvidia card (since i like physx effects). I think it will only get worse over the years.

#4678084

k1net1cs

2013-10-18 22:49

At least AMD have the brains to allow OpenCL and soon Mantle to run on other architectures.

OpenCL is not AMD's brainchild; it's Apple's. Then it's being maintained by the Khronos group (the same group that maintains OpenGL standards) which includes both AMD and Nvidia, among other big vendors like Intel and SGI. Both vendors (AMD and Nvidia) had OpenCL support (in their drivers) at around the same time (2009 IIRC), and back then it's a generally accepted fact that Nvidia's OpenCL support was actually better than AMD for some time, only to have AMD play catch-up several months later.

#4678153

Anarion

2013-10-19 00:27

Well, maybe for you it is not an issue. For me it can be really unpleasant experience. Don't know why.

I can think of one thing that might be the issue: PWM LED back light flickering (because LCD panel doesn't flicker). That varies greatly. Some PWM controllers are ****, some are basically flicker free. Obviously PWM free display would be the top choice. This thing should be standardised.