You have no facts, just bs peddled by GN.

Astyanax:

You have no facts, just bs peddled by GN.

Neither do you because I haven't see you provide any sources to backup the things you have said about this topic.

Fender178:

Neither do you because I haven't see you provide any sources to backup the things you have said about this topic.

Neither did Steve. If you're going to blindly follow moron techtubers who push misinformation to sell more crap from derpbauer, you might as well delete all your forum accounts and subscribe to the flat earth society.

Astyanax:

Neither did Steve. If you're going to blindly follow moron techtubers who push misinformation to sell more crap from derpbauer, you might as well delete all your forum accounts and subscribe to the flat earth society.

Why don't you take your own advice then because you posted stuff that could be misinformation as well. Also how do you know if they are selling crap from De8auer anyway? You don't. Also not all tech YouTubers are morons.

Astyanax:

Neither did Steve. If you're going to blindly follow moron techtubers who push misinformation to sell more crap from derpbauer, you might as well delete all your forum accounts and subscribe to the flat earth society.

Steve has direct communication with motherboard engineers. He regularly calls out companies on BS claims, and gives detailed explanations as to why. I would argue he's one of the most trustworthy tech reviewers regardless of platform. What exactly makes you think otherwise? Do you think he's not a real reviewer just because he uses Youtube, in addition to his own site? Do you think the sponsored products really have anything to do with the information they provide? EDIT: Note, I'm not subscribed to any tech youtuber except LTT, and that's really only because of the unusual builds and products; I wouldn't really depend on LTT for serious reviews. Gamers Nexus, Level 1, and Hardware Unboxed are too monotonous and lengthy to keep my interest, but I will check them out when I want specific details because they are excellent at giving you all the info you could ever need. Deb8aur is great for testing products to their limits, but, I don't do that, so it doesn't really interest me. I don't like Jay from Jayz2cents. Timmy Joe is obnoxious. Gamers Meld is very obviously biased. Everyone else doesn't seem to have anything to offer to earn my subscription.

schmidtbag:

Steve has direct communication with motherboard engineers. He regularly calls out companies on BS claims, and gives detailed explanations as to why. I would argue he's one of the most trustworthy tech reviewers regardless of platform. What exactly makes you think otherwise? Do you think he's not a real reviewer just because he uses Youtube, in addition to his own site? Do you think the sponsored products really have anything to do with the information they provide?

I agree with your post thanks for posting it because it seems @Astyanax has no idea what he is talking about. He thinks all tech YouTubers are morons. Yet he knows alot less than they do.

Fender178:

I disagree because fan control is very important in my mind and the same thing goes for overclocking because you don't want to alienate your customers by getting rid of features for new CPUs. Also why would they make 32mb and beyond boards then? There are boards out there that had to get rid of fan control to support newer CPUs. I think the graphics could be simplified while keeping the pretty menus. This is why the make lower chipset boards with less features because they know those users aren't going try and overclock their CPUs with them.

Never said fan controls is useless. Animations and "cool graphics" are useless and they waste a lot of space. There are no functionalities differences between 16MB and 32MB BIOS versions.

Cooe:

Except it's totally not. Zen & Zen+ CPU's can only address a 16MB BIOS. That is hard FACT. Also, AMD NEVER said the Zen 3 support was only coming to 400 series boards with 32MB BIOS chips! Did none of you, including Hilbert, read the actual dang press release? They said they were going to make standard 16MB BIOS boards work in the original announcement by making beta BIOS forks that dropped support for all pre-Ryzen 3000 CPU's. That's LITERALLY what the damn announcement was all about. This article is seriously embarrassing for this site tbh...

There are X470 MB with 32MB BIOS and they run Zen and Zen+ CPUs. MSI made also A320, B450 motherboards with 32MB BIOS. those motherboards has no issues to run Zen and Zen+ CPUs. Simple sample: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/A320M-A-PRO-MAX

schmidtbag:

Steve has direct communication with motherboard engineers.

no he doesn't, he has a media-relations contact in some companies that may or may not fob him off with nonsense.

He regularly calls out companies on BS claims, and gives detailed explanations as to why. I would argue he's one of the most trustworthy tech reviewers regardless of platform.

He is complicit in the scam of pushing the myth that thermal compound stops working with age along with his buddy derpbauer who surprise surprise, sells the stuff.

What exactly makes you think otherwise?

To accurately make a claim about what a cpu can and can't do, a real engineer contact would have redacted and supplied proof, technical briefs and erratta. None of which exists, nor has been confirmed by anybody who works with and compiles their own security customized firmwares within my circles. And I have looked into the concerns that the security processor could be a factor, but that was ruled out because Zen 2 uses the same PSP as Zen+

Astyanax:

no he doesn't.

Yes, he does. He literally has a video tour of MSI's factory... Seriously, why are you so adamant that he isn't trustworthy? You haven't given a good reason.

schmidtbag:

Yes, he does. He literally has a video tour of MSI's factory...

*facepalm* something anybody could get.

Alessio1989:

There are X470 MB with 32MB BIOS and they run Zen and Zen+ CPUs. MSI made also A320, B450 motherboards with 32MB BIOS. those motherboards has no issues to run Zen and Zen+ CPUs. Simple sample: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/A320M-A-PRO-MAX

its pointless, they want to worship their precious youtuber whose information had no confirming technical data provided.

Astyanax:

He is complicit in the scam of pushing the myth that thermal compound stops working with age along with his buddy derpbauer who surprise surprise, sells the stuff.

First of all, he takes sponsorships from other thermal compound manufacturers, so, your logic is already breaking. But also, where's the evidence this is a myth? I'm not saying it isn't one, but where's the contradictory data? Regardless of the truth in the matter, it only matters to serious overclockers, which is the entire point of buying 3rd party compound. To everyone else, it is irrelevant.

To accurately make a claim about what a cpu can and can't do, a real engineer contact would have redacted and supplied proof, technical briefs and erratta.

Again: where's your evidence that his claims are wrong? If he were to consistently lie (and speaking of which, why would he lie over such oddly specific things?) then companies would drop his support real fast. Anyway, much of that information would be classified. He can be told enough to report on the gist of it but that doesn't mean he can show the inner-workings of all the engineering data. It's not really much different than review embargos: the reviewer has information that they're not allowed to release. Does that mean they haven't actually tested the product?

None of which exists, nor has been confirmed by anybody who works with and compiles their own security customized firmwares within my circles.

Nor denied. Tech reviewers are influential. Companies don't want them spreading rumors and hurting their reputation. The entire reason they're sent samples is because of getting the product recognition, not so people have a reason to avoid buying them. One of my primary sources for tech news is phoronix.com. A few years ago, AMD refused to send free samples for either CPUs or GPUs because every time, Michael show how badly they would lose in benchmarks and it wasn't doing them any favors. In order to remain impartial, he would buy the hardware himself. The reason I bring this up is because the same sort of thing happens to tech Youtubers: they express their dissatisfaction (and since it is on video, you hear the tone of it too, not just the words) and sometimes they're cut off from samples, forcing them to buy the product instead. That's not how you make a living, so surely spreading lies is not in their best interest.

And I have looked into the concerns that the security processor could be a factor, but that was ruled out because Zen 2 uses the same PSP as Zen+

The hardware might be the same but as every PC enthusiast knows, hardware is only as good as the software/firmware

Astyanax:

*facepalm* something anybody could get.

Ok, go book an in-depth factory tour at MSI and post your experience. I'll wait. I don't even care that much about Steve. Like I said, I'm not a subscriber. But you're making him out to be waaaaay more corrupt and inept than he really is. It's good to be skeptical but you're just outright rejecting the possibility of truth.

schmidtbag:

Again: where's your evidence that his claims are wrong?

In the design of an x86 protected mode processor.

schmidtbag:

Anyway, much of that information would be classified.

Errata are public information, and things such as rom addressing capabilities are more or less public info with heavy redaction, no-name vendors are entitled to implementing the routing for a cpu from either company without having to reverse engineer their way through it. Also reverse engineering is a fact: if there was any such limit it would have been made known well before now.

schmidtbag:

The hardware might be the same but as every PC enthusiast knows, hardware is only as good as the software/firmware

PSP firmware is handled in SMU, so if you're going to argue that the firmware is the issue you're basically saying theres not a hardware limitation at all. PSP is also a 32-bit ARM Cortex-A5, there are no concerns of rom length in these at all, given they have been used in android devices to boot 200+MB roms.

schmidtbag:

But you're making him out to be waaaaay more corrupt and inept than he really is.

Nah, I'm alluding the fact that he got an intern on the line and not a real bios engineer, which btw, do not work at mainboard manufacturers - firmware blob developers =/= bios engineer. Bios engineers work for the companies making the programmable flash rom and develop the container structure that the option-roms and blobs are segmented into.

Astyanax:

no he doesn't, he has a media-relations contact in some companies that may or may not fob him off with nonsense. He is complicit in the scam of pushing the myth that thermal compound stops working with age along with his buddy derpbauer who surprise surprise, sells the stuff. To accurately make a claim about what a cpu can and can't do, a real engineer contact would have redacted and supplied proof, technical briefs and erratta. None of which exists, nor has been confirmed by anybody who works with and compiles their own security customized firmwares within my circles. And I have looked into the concerns that the security processor could be a factor, but that was ruled out because Zen 2 uses the same PSP as Zen+

Then why don't you provide us with information and sources that you looked into this because it seems like it to me that you are all talk here. Hence to me that you're gathering information out of thin air without any research at all.

Astyanax:

*facepalm* something anybody could get. its pointless, they want to worship their precious youtuber whose information had no confirming technical data provided.

Yet you don't post any sources for your information that proves to us that the tech YouTubers are wrong.

Fender178:

Then why don't you provide us with information and sources that you looked into this because it seems like it to me that you are all talk here. Hence to me that you're gathering information out of thin air without any research at all.

You are not entitled to my sources, some of which buy up retail hardware and re-write the firmware themselves. on the other hand, the fact you are immersing in unsourced, unqualified, undocumented crud from a youtube video where nobody put their names up, really demonstrates your capacity to seek out actual information for yourself

Astyanax:

You are not entitled to my sources, some of which buy up retail hardware and re-write the firmware themselves. on the other hand, the fact you are immersing in unsourced, unqualified, undocumented crud from a youtube video where nobody put their names up, really demonstrates your capacity to seek out actual information for yourself

Then I don't believe a word that comes out of your mouth because you are talking baseless nonsense in my mind. Also you are insulting other people for no reason what so ever so it is hard to take you seriously.

Fender178:

Then I don't believe a word that comes out of your mouth because you are talking baseless nonsense in my mind. Also you are insulting other people for no reason what so ever so it is hard to take you seriously.

If you feel insulted on having your capacity to seek out information critiqued, that is called self reflection and is just how teachers and college professors encourage lagging students who are letting themselves down through poor decisions. I also don't really care what you believe, you've demonstrated that you could be led astray by the flat earth society and moon landing conspiracy theorists. I am not going to jeopardize my friends safety and job contract prospects for your satisfaction.

Just believe what makes you happy and live on. Not like your opinion will change stubborn minds.

no one confirmed it until now. Just us people made it happen because we complained. Teh powerz of interwebz lol Its how rumours usually work, to provoke that said company/developer/etc to respond.. It was the same by Cyberpunk 2077 few times lately..

Astyanax:

In the design of an x86 protected mode processor.

Mind elaborating? I don't see how that proves or disproves anything.

Errata are public information, and things such as rom addressing capabilities are more or less public info with heavy redaction, no-name vendors are entitled to implementing the routing for a cpu from either company without having to reverse engineer their way through it.

Look, all we're asking for is a source, which you still won't provide. You're the only one here who is discrediting youtubers. If this information really is as public as you say, it shouldn't be hard for you to find it. But I have yet to encounter contradicting evidence, whether that be other tech reviewers or the hardware manufacturers. You insist Steve is wrong and that the information proving him wrong is publicly available, so prove it.

Also reverse engineering is a fact: if there was any such limit it would have been made known well before now.

Reverse engineering is a slow and often difficult process. People do it when they have a strong incentive to do so. To reverse engineer AMD's firmware to figure out this 16MB limit is so oddly specific that nobody would have any good reason to check, especially since it wasn't predicted to see Zen3 on AM4. Besides, this argument works against you too. Reverse engineering could prove the limit does in fact exist. Reverse engineering to prove or disprove this limit doesn't appear to have been done, so it is a moot point.

PSP firmware is handled in SMU, so if you're going to argue that the firmware is the issue you're basically saying theres not a hardware limitation at all. PSP is also a 32-bit ARM Cortex-A5, there are no concerns of rom length in these at all, given they have been used in android devices to boot 200+MB roms.

Who said anything about hardware being the limitation? Not even Clouseau said it was a hardware problem. I think it was made pretty clear that my point is that the firmware is the problem.

Nah, I'm alluding the fact that he got an intern on the line and not a real bios engineer, which btw, do not work at mainboard manufacturers - firmware blob developers =/= bios engineer.

I'm alluding to the fact he has more internal connections than you're assuming. Just because he knows an intern that doesn't mean that intern is the only person he knows...

Astyanax:

If you feel insulted on having your capacity to seek out information critiqued, that is called self reflection and is just how teachers and college professors encourage lagging students who are letting themselves down through poor decisions. I also don't really care what you believe, you've demonstrated that you could be led astray by the flat earth society and moon landing conspiracy theorists. I am not going to jeopardize my friends safety and job contract prospects for your satisfaction.

You're 100% wrong about me be led astray. I don't feel insulted but I gave you a chance to prove that your information was accurate without giving out confidential information but nope you failed to even do that. Other than that I am done talking to you.