More Vega Frontier Edition Performance Numbers Surface

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#5448239
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AMD already said that the gaming drivers are just that, meant for gaming. Beyond3d confirmed this as well, and PCWORLD was told by AMD that they can benchmark in private, with AMD monitoring the tests, the card's gaming performance against the 1080. Stop making excuses.
Why don't people just run non gaming tests, you know the usual tests pro cards get run through other than games that would end the its the drivers thought process? I'm not saying it is the drivers but there is a easy way to find out .
#5448241
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Some time ago I've posted my prediction that Vega will be between GTX1070 and GTX1080 and had many replies how much I'm wrong. Well, wou were partially right since it can't even keep up after GTX1070 wile taking 2x more power...
So out of the 6 "benchmarks", after the only one in which 1070 beats it is the GTA5, Where the AMD cards are generally much worse than NV counterparts you say it can't keep up with the 1070. Dear God.
#5448242
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It's pretty clear why they kept delaying it, and delaying it more. Not HBM2... ... but the lackluster performance. I am an ATI (well, AMD) fan, have used all their generations since X850 Pro, all the way through X1950 later a big jump to R4870, then 6950, then 7970GE ... but I stopped after. Because they simply lost, and continue losing to this day. Sad, but true. I was really hoping for a comeback with Vega, but seems that is not going to happen. Competitive price or not, it is a slower and more inefficient GPU than nVidia's offerings from last year.
actually, they wouldn't delay it for being worse. companies aren't emotional teenagers who dont want to face reality. They are delaying it for something important and rumor had it they delayed it to have the drivers proper. I don't think they delayed it for 1% 5% etc. It's a new architecture with a lot of things the driver probably needs to do new. Even the HBM2 works differently from HBM1 and might need driver changes.
#5448244
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Well, I guess I'm the only person that's pretty optimistic at this point. With results being inconsistent and all over the place (clearly driver related), the clock speed not actually reaching 1600 but averaging 1400, not having optimized gaming drivers, running software none of which written to take advantage of any of it's advanced features (alleged features anyway), and no DX12 or Vulkan, yet still manages to be in 1080ti territory here, 1080 there, 1070 over there, I'm looking forward to the gaming variant, optimized drivers, and modern games to take advantage of the architecture. But most of all, price/performance. I don't have a 1080 now, so if I can flirt with 1080ti at a price point below current 1080 prices, plus get Freesync out of the deal, I'll be good.
As far as I know, AMD didn't do any benchmarks with the FE, so comparing it to an NV card in gaming isn't a problem, but drawing conclusions from it is in my opinion. If Raja didn't lie to the consumers, the RX Vegas will be faster than the FE. Anyway, if those will "only" have 1070, 1080 or 1080Ti performance and priced around them or below, than you have choice! Priced above them with same or less performance will be another Fury 2.0 story. But anyway, if you get enough fps from those for a good price, paired with a Freesync monitor, you spare hundred(s of) dollar(s) because of G-Sync monitor prices.
#5448245
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Jim Keller saved them once, maybe he could come back and build them a better GPU.
#5448248
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Tile-based Rasterization Tile-based Rasterization was not used for these tests and neither were gaming drivers for Vega, which will be out in one month with RX Vega. So what these gimped benches ACTUALLY show us is that RX Vega will be a MONSTER gaming GPU.
#5448252
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it does seem gaming mode is to facilitate people testing on the same machine for now. If Rx Vega does come with better drivers I expect Vega FE will have an improved gaming mode. I'm seeing p5000 at ~$1800 to 2000 where did you see $850?
Sorry I was thinking P4000 on price not P5000.
Jim Keller saved them once, maybe he could come back and build them a better GPU.
How long till #fireRaja catches on?
#5448253
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/80/80129.jpg
it does seem gaming mode is to facilitate people testing on the same machine for now. If Rx Vega does come with better drivers I expect Vega FE will have an improved gaming mode. I'm seeing p5000 at ~$1800 to 2000 where did you see $850?
I think he confused the P5000 and the P4000. P4000 is ~$850 but it only trades blows with the FE, it doesn't definitively beat it. It is a 180w part though.
Why don't people just run non gaming tests, you know the usual tests pro cards get run through other than games that would end the its the drivers thought process? I'm not saying it is the drivers but there is a easy way to find out .
HPC is where I think Vega is going to shine more than anywhere, but the drivers aren't available yet, so testing is kind of pointless. Workstation has been tested and it performs roughly equivalent to Nvidia's $850 Quadro card - which is essentially a 1080 with optimized drivers. So if anything the workstation tests just further confirms the entire card performs similarly to a 1080 in general.
As far as I know, AMD didn't do any benchmarks with the FE, so comparing it to an NV card in gaming isn't a problem, but drawing conclusions from it is in my opinion. If Raja didn't lie to the consumers, the RX Vegas will be faster than the FE. Anyway, if those will "only" have 1070, 1080 or 1080Ti performance and priced around them or below, than you have choice! Priced above them with same or less performance will be another Fury 2.0 story. But anyway, if you get enough fps from those for a good price, paired with a Freesync monitor, you spare hundred(s of) dollar(s) because of G-Sync monitor prices.
They benchmark the FE against the Titan Xp right on their landing page: https://pro.radeon.com/en-us/product/radeon-vega-frontier-edition/
Tile-based Rasterization was not used for these tests and neither were gaming drivers for Vega, which will be out in one month with RX Vega. So what these gimped benches ACTUALLY show us is that RX Vega will be a MONSTER gaming GPU.
Tile Rasterization doesn't improve performance in all workloads - Nvidia dynamically enables/disables it based on the application. It's more useful in memory bandwidth bottlenecked situations as the ROPs don't have to constantly fetch data from memory, only from L2. It's mostly a power savings feature rather than a performance one. As for the drivers, I think they are immature and performance will improve but I doubt it's going to suddenly add 30+% performance to the card.
#5448256
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Now we have a Workstation graphics card that wants to be a Gaming graphics card just for the fun of it, hoping that few rich people that can afford to throw 1000-1500 USD will eventually buy it for playing games. If AMD wants to sell this card, then they need to price it around 500-600 USD, in such case for sure more people will consider to buy it and most probably will buy it, still the card has too high TDP of 300 watts and has no proper driver released till now. Maybe AMD will make a proper driver after a year or more, but then it will be useless and too late, because there will be out, other new graphics cards with higher performance, lower TDP and much lower price too.
#5448258
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Pls delete
#5448270
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How long till #fireRaja catches on?
That's not how product release works. Raja and techs delivered new GPU architecture, calculated good TMUs/ROPs/Memory bandwidth at expected GPU clock ratios. And delivered it with expected performance numbers to wide product team. They came with sales and marketing strategy. While it does not look any good right now, failure is mainly in driver delivery. Maybe they found something really bad in fully working gaming driver. Maybe there is hidden GPU design error and they have to work that gaming driver around it. But reality is that we do not know details. We only know that something went wrong. So now we can only make assumption on what it was, or wait.
#5448273
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/237/237771.jpg
That's not how product release works. Raja and techs delivered new GPU architecture, calculated good TMUs/ROPs/Memory bandwidth at expected GPU clock ratios. And delivered it with expected performance numbers to wide product team. They came with sales and marketing strategy. While it does not look any good right now, failure is mainly in driver delivery. Maybe they found something really bad in fully working gaming driver. Maybe there is hidden GPU design error and they have to work that gaming driver around it. But reality is that we do not know details. We only know that something went wrong. So now we can only make assumption on what it was, or wait.
On r/AMD they are talking about wasted die space and energy making up for the pipeline deficiencies of GCN. If this is true even with improvements in the driver on performance it will still be a power hog. That falls on Raja, no?
#5448280
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/228/228512.jpg
On r/AMD they are talking about wasted die space and energy making up for the pipeline deficiencies of GCN. If this is true even with improvements in the driver on performance it will still be a power hog. That falls on Raja, no?
No, as this card was already in the pipe when Raja came onboard, there was really nothing that could be done to change it without really really delaying it. More so then it already is. Navi is the card designed 100% under Raja and this is where AMD may be able to compete with Nvidia in the high end.
#5448291
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Personally, I've been in a low with hardware demanding games... and upgrade from msi 980 wasn't really required. So I'm holding out till I need it (gsync helps a lot). I was hoping there'd be competition where prices may drop... AMD dropped the ball. Optimize one driver for 1 popular game with proper competitive clocks. Tell us only this game has been optimized. That's better than this. At least with 1 game we could see potential. And not doom/ashes. pick tombraider(dx12) or just a benchmark. SOMETHING to give us/reviewers to show the REAL potential. I hope it's better.. And cheaper if close. I'm holding out till September (hopefully). If nvidia posts something before or AMD is more of the same after 2-3 months later... . sticking with nvid.
#5448296
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No, as this card was already in the pipe when Raja came onboard, there was really nothing that could be done to change it without really really delaying it. More so then it already is. Navi is the card designed 100% under Raja and this is where AMD may be able to compete with Nvidia in the high end.
There is no way the design portion of Vega was finalized in April of 2013. He definitely had influence over various aspects of it. 100%? Probably not - but he isn't going to have 100% under Navi either. There has never been a complete redesign of a GPU architecture. Even major architectural shifts like G80/R600 borrowed aspects from previous designs. That being said, I don't think Raja is to blame if Vega falls flat. There is a hundred reasons why that would occur, the largest one being lack of funding. AMD's R&D budget is like half of Nvidia's now and I'd estimate that 75% of that was dedicated to Zen for the last several years. That fact that AMD can even ship competitive products to Nvidia is testament to how good the engineers at RTG are.
I meant gaming benchmarks..
Fair enough.
#5448315
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On r/AMD they are talking about wasted die space and energy making up for the pipeline deficiencies of GCN. If this is true even with improvements in the driver on performance it will still be a power hog. That falls on Raja, no?
How can anyone know that unless they have the actual chip diagram? Most people on Reddit truly talk out of their a*s, don't even compare their general level to the people here or in other tech forums.
#5448317
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/259/259654.jpg
There is no way the design portion of Vega was finalized in April of 2013. He definitely had influence over various aspects of it. 100%? Probably not - but he isn't going to have 100% under Navi either. There has never been a complete redesign of a GPU architecture. Even major architectural shifts like G80/R600 borrowed aspects from previous designs. That being said, I don't think Raja is to blame if Vega falls flat. There is a hundred reasons why that would occur, the largest one being lack of funding. AMD's R&D budget is like half of Nvidia's now and I'd estimate that 75% of that was dedicated to Zen for the last several years. That fact that AMD can even ship competitive products to Nvidia is testament to how good the engineers at RTG are. Fair enough.
Didn't he admit, on video, that AMD basically called quits on GPU R&D post-Hawaii?
#5448319
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/237/237771.jpg
On r/AMD they are talking about wasted die space and energy making up for the pipeline deficiencies of GCN. If this is true even with improvements in the driver on performance it will still be a power hog. That falls on Raja, no?
How can anyone know that unless they have the actual chip diagram? Most people on Reddit truly talk out of their a*s, don't even compare their general level to the people here or in other tech forums.
Please re-read what I posted. I did not claim this was what happened.
#5448320
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/197/197287.jpg
The arguement "is not a gaming gpu' is not one. If they provide gaming mode, then it's meant for gaming.
That's just not true. How can you be so blinded by this idea that a "gaming mode" somehow magically means it has optimized, purposeful drivers for gaming? Are you trying to intentionally spread fud?

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