Ghosty:

Well the graph you posted says otherwise. Unless they plan on selling what they have, which they won't because they need them for electric vehicles.

I am talking about investments, while the graph is about Market Share

Europe(without UK) is as big of a market as USA, seems like a sound move from Intel. Especially with current Taiwan situation that's a relief to see diversification and not relying that much on Asia. I'm of course pro Europe market, without it you can't negociate with China and USA on equal footing, that's independence.

Noisiv:

I am talking about investments, while the graph is about Market Share

Isn't that the same thing?

Well at least we still have ARM chips manufactured in the UK. Well i think we do but not 100% sure.

And TSMC will probably invest big time in Czechia. I read a few weeks ago that British companies create more jobs in the EU than in the UK due to brexit, so it's not just foreign companies. Not sure if brexit even has weakened the EU at all (already more bank jobs etc...), that was really a dumb move...

TSMC moving more properties away from Taiwan soil for obvious reasons, Intel meanwhile investing in tax havens. What else is new?

Reddoguk:

Well at least we still have ARM chips manufactured in the UK. Well i think we do but not 100% sure.

As far as i know ARM is not manufacturing its own ship, they're licensing ship's design. Which in turn are made by the biggest ship manufacturer in the world, Intel/Samsung/TSMC

XenthorX:

As far as i know ARM is not manufacturing its own ship, they're licensing ship's design. Which in turn are made by the biggest ship manufacturer in the world, Intel/Samsung/TSMC

I just upvoted you because of ships. Sorry, it's not my intention to laugh at the typo, but it was kind of funny. Silicon chips are the most dense engineering products mankind can come up with on an industrial scale, with the structures measured in nanometers, whereas ships are the largest movable (single unit) things that can be built. So, they are kind of opposites, if you think about it.

southamptonfc:

Put another way. The EU out-competed the UK. Most likely due to its much larger internal market and it's trading power when it comes to exporting things to the rest of the world. Same thing will happen in the car industry.

Well, it's a bigger problem than you think. The cost of living in the UK is very very very high, meaning that for a factory to open, you gotta pay someone £50K+ to put four bolts into a piece of metal 120 times a day, and train them, and deal with unions, and deal with staff welfare, and give them doughnuts on Fridays to keep them happy, and pay them a decent pension...etc etc. The cost of living is the reason why my friend, as europe is cheap to work and live, driving down the need to pay people lots of money. For the UK to 'attract' foreign investment, you gotta drop the amount of money people are asking for, which the only way to do that is to drop the cost of living. People's disposable income is soooooooooo low in the UK, it's next to dinosaur bones.

Loobyluggs:

Well, it's a bigger problem than you think. The cost of living in the UK is very very very high, meaning that for a factory to open, you gotta pay someone £50K+ to put four bolts into a piece of metal 120 times a day, and train them, and deal with unions, and deal with staff welfare, and give them doughnuts on Fridays to keep them happy, and pay them a decent pension...etc etc. The cost of living is the reason why my friend, as europe is cheap to work and live, driving down the need to pay people lots of money. For the UK to 'attract' foreign investment, you gotta drop the amount of money people are asking for, which the only way to do that is to drop the cost of living. People's disposable income is soooooooooo low in the UK, it's next to dinosaur bones.

Going off topic here so I'm out now. I recommend that you check out the cost of living in the places listed for investment like Barcelona, Brussels, Amsterdam, Paris compared to the UK. Also, re-evaluate whether unionisation is greater or less in Germany, France, Belgium, Italy or the UK. Inflation and lack of disposable income is not an issue unique to the UK right now. But it will certainly get worse in the UK as we pay tariffs to import things like Intel CPUs from the EU and lose jobs as the EU out-competes the UK for business.

My understanding would be that with current political climate, it is in the interest of both EU and Intel to have fabs outside of Taiwan or generally the interests of the world dictatorships. I would assume that EU have provided some incentive for Intel too (like tax kickbacks), but I don't think they had to be persuaded that much.

southamptonfc:

Going off topic here so I'm out now. I recommend that you check out the cost of living in the places listed for investment like Barcelona, Brussels, Amsterdam, Paris compared to the UK. Also, re-evaluate whether unionisation is greater or less in Germany, France, Belgium, Italy or the UK. Inflation and lack of disposable income is not an issue unique to the UK right now. But it will certainly get worse in the UK as we pay tariffs to import things like Intel CPUs from the EU and lose jobs as the EU out-competes the UK for business.

Agreed - and I have already prior to posting. The cost of living is very high in the UK, mainly down to property prices and rental charges being out of control, hammering down the disposable income figures. The biggest property developers in the UK have enjoyed 450% share price increases (will get sources if you want them, with timescales, but I think I'm referring to a ten year figure), by purchasing land cheaply, building properties (small) and slowly releasing them onto the market (to maintain a high price) and the properties being bulk purchased by investors, who charge whatever they want, because housing is extremely limited. The associated problem in the UK is that houses/property is valued on how many rooms it has, versus the actual size of the rooms. So, a property will be listed as '3 bedrooms' but is really 1.5 bedrooms, with one small bedroom at the front, and a 8 foot by 8 foot bedroom at its side, with another behind it at the rear, with a tiny bathroom (no longer than a bath) and tiny toilet (that opens outwards due to its tiny size). Property developers have been allowed to develop tiny properties at massive profits margins, but slowly...this is the main cause of low disposable income and huge cost of living. Import/export tariffs are certainly a concern regarding intel, and there is some consensus in central (bi-partisan, non-political) government which says the closer you get to not taxing imports the UK does not make and taxing items the UK does make, is more palatable than fighting with the EU...which I neither agree of disagree with, but is certainly interesting to look at when it is being discussed in debates at government levels, non-politically.

Kaarme:

I just upvoted you because of ships. Sorry, it's not my intention to laugh at the typo, but it was kind of funny. Silicon chips are the most dense engineering products mankind can come up with on an industrial scale, with the structures measured in nanometers, whereas ships are the largest movable (single unit) things that can be built. So, they are kind of opposites, if you think about it.

I did it again 😱 Not the first time !

Ghosty:

That's the downside to leaving the single market with loads of other countries in it. The UK now has other options, which the EU dosen't. Not in the short term though.

there's an upside to Brexit? other than political noises there really isn't and there's still a ton of immigrants from Eastern Europe. and while the gov't is slow-rolling helping to house millions of Ukrainians, they are homeless in bad weather. many of whom speak English and would be a net asset.

Ghosty:

Isn't that the same thing?

nope son. let's say you're flush from the lottery. you know chippies (and they know you) so you decided to invest in what you know. so flush with cash you go and buy licenses and land, looking for the best corners. you go ahead and buy 6 parcels of land in Brixton. at this time you are the largest investor in Brixton chippies, but you have zero market share.

tunejunky:

there's an upside to Brexit? other than political noises there really isn't and there's still a ton of immigrants from Eastern Europe. and while the gov't is slow-rolling helping to house millions of Ukrainians, they are homeless in bad weather. many of whom speak English and would be a net asset.

There are a few charties helping out in Ukraine which will benefit those that need the help.

Backstabak:

My understanding would be that with current political climate, it is in the interest of both EU and Intel to have fabs outside of Taiwan or generally the interests of the world dictatorships. I would assume that EU have provided some incentive for Intel too (like tax kickbacks), but I don't think they had to be persuaded that much.

no, they didn't need to be persuaded as this is an open and shut case of self-interest. what they did go through is very similar to what the I.O.C. does to competing host cities. Intel (long term) doesn't care about Taiwan, just TSMC. Intel was the largest chip maker in the world until (ryzen & iPhone) a few years ago. and the EU figures largely in their quest to reclaim dominance. the EU has provided huge assurances, simply because this reinforces European wherewithal plus roughly 300,000 new jobs at high wages all told (across the Supply Chain). every investor and board member of IMEC, ASML, and many others have just had their businesses guaranteed profits for the next 25 years. btw, Magdeburg was chosen for two reasons - water supply (fabs use huge amounts) and infrastructure

Reddoguk:

Well at least we still have ARM chips manufactured in the UK. Well i think we do but not 100% sure.

nope. no ARM manufacturing, just licensing...unless you want to bring back the ghosts of tech past Britain does lead in Compound Semiconductors (silicon + Germanium or Gallium) , but that's next, next (next?) gen

maikai:

So it has nothing to do with cost and turning a profit, also billion plus dollar investment and no politics involved. I’m sure because out of the generosity of their hearts they just want to have more Europeans on their payroll lol got it. Also, if you disagree with my opinion move along, dont quote me and drop your horse manure on top of it

i was not the one dropping manure. unlike some i know of which i speak. No corporation has a heart and "goodness" is a point of view. obviously there's something in this for all parties or it wouldn't be a deal. right now, there is a generation of Electrical Engineers, High Energy Physicists, MBA's, and more graduating form European colleges that now have their future guaranteed. and the folks in jobs above them will be mostly European too. this is an investment, not a boondoggle and it was a very wise one at that. of course Intel was going to Europe anyways, as they're already there (Leixlip) but now they will have Magdeburg. European suppliers will be getting Intel's money for their workers. as an idea of scale - Applied Materials (being replaced with ASML) has $17.2 Billion in revenue with profits of $3.6 Billion ASML's biggest competitors (Canon, Nikon, Applied) do not have EUV lithography. ASML is the biggest beneficiary of this deal but don't forget Belgium's IMEC and smaller companies like Micro-Hybrid

pattakosn:

Exactly. And who made the investment? Intel? Why would they do that ?

Look at how things are for the companies getting their chips produced by TSM for at least the last two years, not exactly ideal. Some of us did see the issues that would come from outsourcing/moving loads of production 20-30 years ago, but hey, as long as it's cheap.....