D3M1G0D:

I'm guessing that Intel originally had Coffee Lake planned for much later. I think they would have liked to milk KB and KB-X a bit more but felt pressured to respond to Ryzen.

Yeah, they have to settle with less milking... let's just hope they won't rush it as bad as they did with x299. Still ridiculous milking with yet another socket change.

They can keep it. I'll not swap my mobo for same socket.

I haven't used AMD since I had a socket 939 Opteron, but this really pisses me off and I think I'll buy AMD again for my next upgrade. Although I would still buy coffee lake if someone found a way to make it run on z170/270 boards (socket adapter, bios update, whatever).

More of the same from big blue. 🙁

kastriot:

Well since socket 1366/2011 intel fucked up completely with 1155,1156,1150,1151 etc etc they could made one fucking future proof socket but no they have to milk every fucking segment of customers well intel FU..

Its not the socket, its the chipset.

Lordhawkwind:

Well this looks like another stupid decision by Intel in a long line of stupid decisions. They seem to think they're still operating as a monopoly and are refusing to see the elephant in the room called Ryzen. Coffee Lake is potentially going to be a flop for Intel because they're effectively locking out all owners of Z100/200 from upgrading without buying yet another mobo with virtually the same specification. It's crazy. I only bought my 7700K and Z270 mobo in January when KL launched and now they've ended my upgrade path. Gee thanks Intel. As and when I'm ready to move to 6/8 core Intel will not even be a consideration. I'm not giving any money to a company that is so blatantly trying to shaft me LMAO. I only went Intel this time because I was concerned with the rumours regarding Ryzen CPU's which turned out to be well founded. As AMD are supporting AM4 for at least the next 3 to 4 years that won't be a problem when I next decide to upgrade. If CL does begin to flop it wouldn't surprise me if CL suddenly became backwards compatible to keep people like me on board and stop us from buying Ryzen chips with more cores and for less money. Time will tell I guess.

I dont understand all the complaints about Chipset compatibility, it feels like most of you are just AMD fanboys making noise and string anti-Intel sentiment. If you been using Intel CPU in the last 10 years you should know that Intel has One chipset per TWO CPU generation Plus chipset refresh with more features in the second year for the mainstream and one chipset per 2 CPU generations for the HEDT X99: Haswell, Broadwell X79: Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge X58: Nehalem, Westmere Z270: Refresh Z170: Skylake, Kabylake Z97: Refresh Z87: Haswell, [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwell_%28microarchitecture%29']Broadwell [/URL] Z77: Refresh Z68: Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge P55: Lynnfield, Clarkdale Going back to socket LGA 775 you can see how MUCH worse the chipset situation, during that period 4 different companies made TENS of chipsets for LGA775, Intel, ATI, Nvidia, ViA and SiS, one socket but Zero compatibility, one chipset worked with Pentium 4, another just with dual core, another with quad core and so on. One socket and Mega confusion, right now its the best it ever was. Intel from i845 to 4X chipset: i845GV/GE/i848P/i865G/GV/P/PE/i910GL/i915G/GL/GV/P/PL/i925X/XE/i945/955/i945G/P/ i955X/i946/946GZ/PL/965/i975/Q965/P965/G965/Q963/i975X/ X35/P35/Q35/G35/P33/G33/Q33/P31/G31/X38/X48/P45/P43/G45/G43/G41/B43/Q43/Q45, SiS: SiS 649/649FX/655/656/656FX/662/671/671FX/671DX/672 VIA: PT800/PM800/PT880/PM880/P4M800/P4M800 Pro/PT880 Pro/PT880 Ultra/PT894/PT894 Pro/P4M890/PT890/P4M900 ATI: ATI Radeon Xpress 200; ATI Radeon Xpress 1250, ATI CrossFire Xpress 3200 nVidia: nForce4 Ultra; nForce4 SLI XE; nForce4 SLI; nForce4 SLI X16; nForce 570 SLI; nForce 590 SLI; nForce 610i; nForce 630i; nForce 650i Ultra; nForce 650i SLI; nForce 680i LT SLI; nForce 680i SLI; nForce 730i; nForce 740i SLI; nForce 750i SLI; nForce 760i SLI; nForce 780i SLI; nForce 790i SLI; GeForce 9300; GeForce 9400

Size_Mick:

I haven't used AMD since I had a socket 939 Opteron, but this really pisses me off and I think I'll buy AMD again for my next upgrade. Although I would still buy coffee lake if someone found a way to make it run on z170/270 boards (socket adapter, bios update, whatever).

If you go AMD you will also be forced to by a mobo, so nothing changed.

well no 6c/12t for me till my next build then, in 4 years or more, by then we should 8c/16t running 4ghz all cores base and be priced @ 299 or lower hopeful, and hopefull games and programs finally start getting programed to used all cores available to it, not half assed sorta kinda aware IF the z170 could use the 8700k I would bought it and sold my 6700k, but intel..

So how exactly does that make Intel the bad wolf and AMD the sheep? It's like most of the thread is filled with zombies saying "must upgrade, must upgrade" while there systems are perfectly fine for what they do and an upgrade will yield minor improvement, so who is milking who again?

Lordhawkwind:

AMD are supporting AM4 to at least 2020 which will likely see Zen/Zen+/Zen++ (whatever it gets called).

You couldn't use AM3+ CPUs on AM3 sockets, you couldn't use AM3 CPUs on AM2+ sockets, you couldn't use AM2+ CPUs on AM2 sockets etc. It's all the same. TR4 will probably stay there for a bit. But Zen+ will most likely won't work in AM4 sockets.

Intel keep changing chipset/socket as they make an utter fortune on selling now basically empty south bridges - for every CPU they sell, they also sell a south bridge. Not just been gouging on the CPUs and £200 i3s, they love to doubledip their ever so loyal fans. AM3+ was supported for a long time, but only because nobody in their right mind would have bought another mobo for Piledriver after being ripped off with the shitty move AMD pulled with Bulldozer - getting the motherboards out the door before people realised just how bad BD was and eBay getting flooded with them as people changed platforms, heh. With the r7 1700 about, hard to consider anything else.

Michal Turlik 21:

Nice to see that many of you are putting into the dark the intel cpu's and at the same time manifesting the indifference for the Ryzen bug which does affect the gcc compilator and as it seems few others compilators as well. Probably many of you do spend their time on a Windows machine by playing games, surfing and launching synthetic benchmarks but the reality is that no company within the big two is the best choice right now. Intel made itself an auto goal with the last coffe lake decision to do not support x270 series motherboards and AMD repeated itself once again by the history - during all the time prior to the Ryzen release no one has it tested on a Linux machine as it had to be done! Once again AMD is completely snobbing the Linux system and is doing it the best way it can, this should be enough to leave the Ryzen processors and the Vega gpus where they should be, on the shelve. Many of you are running to buy AMD products by paying probably no much attention on the fact that the AMD company is not an angelic one and that it it is not better then Intel. Intel on its counterpart does test their cpu's on the Linux and Unix like systems...want to see how many Apple pc's and notebook's will be released in the next future based on the Ryzen arch? Want to see how many Linux servers will be equipped with the Ryzens? Probably zero. AMD was smart enought for having addressed the Ryzen bug by the arrival of the Threadripper's. So from the AMD point of view it seems that Ryzens are made for playing and toying while the Threadrippers are for scholars and engineers. And to say the last, Intel did always retired their faulty cpu's at their own cost...AMD is not doing the same with their awesome Ryzen's.

Why does Linux support matter to people running Windows? Ryzen was intended for a market where the vast majority of users are on Windows. The likelihood of Apple dumping Intel for AMD is incredibly low. Ryzen R3, R5 and R7 were not intended for servers. AMD released EPYC to target that market. Personally, I couldn't care less about Linux support on my desktop. Linux doesn't require that much processing power anyway. Even on an old i3 380M, it's just as responsive as Windows is on my Ryzen R5 1600 based desktop. There are servers in the works running EPYC CPUs though, since that's AMD's server processor. There are also workstations being built around Threadripper.

coth:

TR4 will probably stay there for a bit. But Zen+ will most likely won't work in AM4 sockets.

zen+ is on AM4. in the time it took you to type that, you should have looked it up instead.

__hollywood|meo:

zen+ is on AM4. in the time it took you to type that, you should have looked it up instead.

Zen+ is nowhere near. And won't be here for at least a year.

Am i crazy, or is there no "first post" with the news and link on this forum?

coth:

You couldn't use AM3+ CPUs on AM3 sockets, you couldn't use AM3 CPUs on AM2+ sockets, you couldn't use AM2+ CPUs on AM2 sockets etc. It's all the same.

That is partially incorrect. You couldn't use AM3/AM3 + on any of the AM2 sockets because those were DDR3-based (notice the "3" in the name), while AM2/+ was DDR2 However AM3+ CPU worked just fine in AM3 (if vendor had bios support), or AM2+ worked just fine in AM2 ( but a tad slower, or in case of AM2, at less PCI-e speed ) ~~ The only REAL reason to change the socket is when the memory technology changes ( DDR4 has different signaling than DDR3 and due to all those minute differences in timing of each memory bit etc etc... new socket is 99.9% required ) However, in this case... it is EXACTLY the same memory, same PCI-e, same DMI, same everything. Last year when I bought a pretty expensive Sk 2011v3 motherboard I was convinced it would last another generation, because there was no news on the horizon of DDR5 or new PCI-e (and still isn't) Yet, they made the shitty SK20xx whatever I don't even care anymore on X299 and Skylake X not compatible, while it uses EXACTLY the same tech as Haswell-E or Broadwell-E. Thanks Intel for pushing me to AMD ! Threadripper, here I come !

coth:

You couldn't use AM3+ CPUs on AM3 sockets.

Not correct, though there were no guarantee, as it was up to the motherboard manufacturer to provide a BIOS update (though this can be argued about many motherboards in general, as there have been countless times when a new CPU comes out that a bios does not recognize, even if it was the same socket and everything, it would not work, unless a BIOS update happened, and often that never happened). That being said, if there were features on the AM3+ motherboard that you wanted, you could use an AM3 CPU on an AM3+ motherboard guaranteed.

coth:

you couldn't use AM3 CPUs on AM2+ sockets

Uh, duh? DDR2 to DDR3, it's the most important and valid reason for there to be an incapability.

coth:

you couldn't use AM2+ CPUs on AM2 sockets etc.

Again, not correct, and i quote "AMD confirmed that AM2 processors will work on AM2+ motherboards and AM2+ processors will work on AM2 motherboards. However, the operation of AM2+ processors on AM2 motherboards will be limited to the specifications of Socket AM2 (1 GHz HyperTransport 2.0, and one power plane for both cores and the IMC). AM2 processors do not benefit from the faster HyperTransport 3.0 and separate power planes on AM2+ motherboards."

coth:

It's all the same.

Well, no, it's not all the same as has been shown to you. If you believe facts or not is a different story. That being said, you talked about CPU sockets that spanned from 2006 to 2011 (2017 if you want to consider there wasn't a change from AM3+ till 2017) In that 5 year time frame, there were 2 socket changes that made things completely incompatible, due to DDR2 and DDR3. In that 5 year time frame, there were a total of 4 "technical" socket changes, with varying compatibilities with themselves, AKA with two AM2 and AM2+ being completely compatible with a BIOS update, and AM3 to AM3+ also being completely compatible with a bios update, and the only one, for sure, definitely not being compatible, was AM2/+ to AM3/+, due to the obvious reason: DDR2 to DDR3 Whereas with intel, in the last 5 years, there have been 6-7 "technical" socket changes(not counting the HEDT systems), with varying compatibilities with themselves, but mostly required you to change motherboards for a new CPU, and many times newer motherboards were not compatible with a one generation old CPU. It also had 3 physical CPU socket changes. And the only one real reason for a socket change during this time? DDR3 to DDR4.

wavetrex:

That is partially incorrect. You couldn't use AM3/AM3 + on any of the AM2 sockets because those were DDR3-based (notice the "3" in the name), while AM2/+ was DDR2 However AM3+ CPU worked just fine in AM3 (if vendor had bios support), or AM2+ worked just fine in AM2 ( but a tad slower, or in case of AM2, at less PCI-e speed )

Old AM3 CPUs did work on AM3+ sockets, but not otherwise. Different pinout.

coth:

Old AM3 CPUs did work on AM3+ sockets, but not otherwise. Different pinout.

The socket itself was 942 pins, yes, and AM3 had 941, so you'd assume, correctly, that a CPU with 942 pins (am3+ CPU) would not work (fit) inside an AM3 socket. Except, you're forgetting that the amount of pins a socket has, does not denote how many the CPU have AM3 socket = 941 AM3 CPU = 938 AM3+ socket = 942 AM3+ CPU = 940 And i quote: "Some manufacturers have brought AM3+ support to some of their AM3 motherboards via a simple BIOS upgrade. Mechanical compatibility has been confirmed and it is possible for AM3+ CPUs to fit in AM3 boards, provided they can supply enough peak current. Another issue is the use of the sideband temperature sensor interface for reading the temperature from the CPU. Therefore, some CPU PWM fan headers may only run at full speed. Also, certain power-saving features may not work, due to lack of support for rapid VCore switching."

Funny the last time I adopted a an upgradeable chipset mindset... ( after my old dual socketed intel BX boards that could take anything ) I actually bet on AMD with socket 939 and got but hurt pretty quickly! 😉 But I have been praying that they force some innovation via a new chipset design with coffee lake! And after the 7740x lane nerf... I am hoping that flak from as much is enough of a mandate for a respectful Intel to cater the coffee lake core count increase with a lane count increase to compliment the excitement/energy of such additions! ( enthusiasm for enthusiasts ) I am not holding my breath but a 6 core 12 thread coffee lake with around 30 lanes empowered/"forced" by a new chipset is all I need to salvage my sadly scar'd Intel love and adopt such a core/lane increase combination as my own "personal hedt" solution! ( finally replacing my aging 6 core i7-980x socket 1366/X58 solution that I have been refusing to upgrade during 7 years of "OBVIOUS" increment. ) It could happen? 🙁 ( let me have my illusions dammit! ) Where if forcing a new chipset for coffee lakes equates to real value and technical advantage/advancement... Who am I to then "nay say" till the actual writing on the wall is revealed?