Chess:

Aw man, if you play it that way, I HAVE to respond 😀 Alright, here goes: - GTA's concept hasn't changed much, so I think you want a new concept. Or you might look at older games with pink tinted glasses: it's well known that it's harder to enjoy games when you're older, not to mention in 'our time' much tech was brand new. - I agree that Deus ex went another route, but is has nothing to do with not being fun. DE2 was different garbage, DE3 was different but fun. - Skyrim, when it first came out, was huge. Oh I can make many improvement on it and the story was a bit meh. But what about all the stories that wasn't directly told? What about the atmosphere? First playtrough ( which took DAYS of playtime because: Oh look! something new! ) was fun for me. - Doom is selling much more than that. It's selling that UT99 or Q3Arena feelings of supercharged, jumping trough the hallways, strafeshooting but w/o the multiplayer aspect. If you take it for what it is, it's fun when you had a aweful day and just just wanna frag. - Dark Souls: It's hard, sure. But again, the atmosphere and mystery ( misery ) everywhere is very well done - Rising Storm is the Battlefield 1942 but better. It's what Battefield would be if it stayed true to it's core. It does what it does well without overly complicating things like Squad, Hell let loose or Arma. ( which are superb game in it's own righ if you're into the war sim genre ) You can simplify anything to crap if you really want to, but I strongly believe there are some fantastic games in the past 10 years. People who enjoyed PC through the 90's and 00's have the tendency to compare everything to that feeling of playing Doom, System shock or half-life for the very first time. We should stop that. I ogled my eyes out when playing Alyx for the first time as well. It's weird that Two Worlds never really gained a big, known following. I for one, have never played it. It simply flew under the radar. Too busy having my mind blown with Oblivion at that time. That, and dealing with horrible "consolisation" What do you think of the Divinity series? Or Kingdom Come? I'm really starting to thing we're discussing tastes, and not fun. Back to you, bud 😉

I remember DX3. That tutorial part. They try to teach you about environmental damage. And you can keep cooking yourself in fire till end of the times. Sad, but places where you can't die exist in that game. Quite contrary to this, game starts with some kind of standoff. You enter place and there is "police" and they say stuff like: "Cavalry's here. Look at that tank." And then you get to actual fight. I was messing with friend's game. So I tested what I could bug in many places. You die in 3 shots to foot on normal difficulty at start. But you do not kill regular enemy with 2 headshots. It is poorly made game. Maybe they fixed many of problems over time. But upon release, I was very disappointed. And from what I have been told, some parts of game can't be completed if you go full hacking/stealth. Best way was to go full assault. You know what was 1st thing I did in Skyrim. There was dude in tutorial, your buddy. I did backstab him quite a lot. Free skill up. I bugged hell out of that game. But its combat system, People should really look to Two Worlds for interesting mechanics. Doom is still empty game. Would you have exactly same maps, story, but used different skin and called it MooD, it would flop. Dead Space stands on its own thanks to interesting story and gameplay mechanics. How many games like Rising Storm are there? 20+? Would CoD series not come to that 3 studio BS, and yearly support drop, it would sit right next to it. BF, Titanfall, ... are same. All those games are same thing in different skins. When one series adds something, other copy it. And you pay $60 for next iteration that's really not worth it. Want pure Quake Game made with modern ways? TOXIKK. It is so classic, that you can do 15:0 in 20 kills TDM if you are that good. (Not sure if it still lives, not played it for some years. But mechanically and graphically, it is classic.) I kind of like Divinity. Mostly from Mechanical point of view, because from character point of view it does not stand as strong as did BG games. I Hope BG3 is not going to disappoint as many additions to older series. Games need their spirit and that's not in them being turn based or not. Anyone who played BG1/2 remembers hours of theory crafting and planning of possible character before making it. I even played once solo MP game where I made all characters in group. And once in BG2, I played without group to be really god-like. And when we are at God-Like, Fahrenheit did damn good job there. Great game of consequences and pressure on player. I did not play Kingdom Come. (Yes, Czech studio made it. But I was not in mood for it, yet.) Friends speak legends of it. It is likely good enough if one likes European story instead of pure fiction. As for tastes. I play mainly competitive MP Games and SP RPG games, but I expect them to have actual story and not something I write in 5 minutes. Like when I saw WW1984. Movie had enough content for 55 minutes, rest is filler which did movie disservice. Someone should have actually write proper story for it. I instead expect meaningful characters and story for content that's to be consumed like interactive movie. There is even interesting story in Life is Strange. Ugly plot twists included. And even run of the mill shooters can have interesting story. IIRC Singularity, while name betrays plot twist and you actually realize it exactly as it is very early, it is OK. But it is 2020, budgets of games that fail horribly are magnitudes bigger than those which succeeded in past. (That includes extreme marketing budgets.) On other side, Games like Crucible are practically dead on Arrival as they are totally inflexible when players today expect flexibility from such type of game. Then you have online shooters like Planetside which do pretty well due to continual support. Even simple games need Spirit. Like dialogues in Vermintide 2. Without dialogues, you would have much weaker attachment to characters. And much less fun. There are many basic rules to making good game. And way too often, they are ignored.

Indies got a lot of my time last decade ! Rimworld , darkest dungeon , kenshi are the three that come to mind. People consider bad what ever they do not like .... I for example when i was asked if the zelda series is good i said yes it is good most of the games in there are in all time classic status . And then came the question witch one is the best ... Just for me to respond , no idea never played em i do not like em personally 😛 he was so confused ! Anyway what i am trying to say is that is ok to not like a game but that does not make trash or even bad it can still be a great game .

anticupidon:

Could it be that Gabe Newell understands so well the situation, because this whole dissatisfaction "riot" amongst gamers he foresaw if Valve would release HL3? That game could not satisfy expectations. Doesn't matter that the dev team will bring something brilliant, new, Innovative. There is a harsh reality as a creator to find that people can never be happy or satisfied with creator's content.

Well, that's probably why they made HL: Alyx, and made it a VR title. It wasn't the game HL fans asked for and for the most part, it was as surprise, so as a result, it wasn't a disappointment. It's kinda like asking for vanilla and getting chocolate instead - it's not what you wanted but most people aren't going to be unhappy about it. That being said, I know there are people who were butthurt that it was a VR-only title, and there are people out there who, even if they like chocolate, would get in a hissy-fit over it. But when you're facing an impossible-to-please crowd, you either let them all walk away or only some. So yeah, I think you're right that Gabe realized CDPR was in a similar situation. However... they didn't have to be. There was too much hype and too much developer attention was taken away from the game. I think people would have been a lot less pissed if it was managed better and if the marketing team chilled out a bit.

anticupidon:

Let's see. Witcher 3 won almost all prizes in the gaming history and CDProjekt could ride the wave and cash in the hype and sell (as greedy idiots) everything lore and DLC related. Yet, DLC and GOTY is what made them so loved in the gaming community, and GOG never cease to offer very good deals for CDProjekt games. And gamers got for free DLC and a LOT of game related lore and CD Projekt released even a fan requested video showing their gratitude [youtube=zgqz8Je7P0s] So much for greediness here. Or a good game!? Are you for real? Really @zhalonia , this is your way of posting on the forums? How many lines of code YOU write and sold yourself? Do you know the costs involved in developing and project management? Don't answer, there is no need. Please, don't wait any second and go to the CD Projekt HQ and show them how it is done, please. Releasing the Cyberpunk was a bet and a risk involving move. They knew it and now they took responsibility. Isn't this enough? On the other hand, getting the first batch in everything, be it games or hardware is always a high risk bet, you can be sure to be the guinea pig. So gamers are blaming CDProjekt for their unwillingness to wait and buy the game when it was ready? Speaking for the sake of speaking is something i can't stand. And I'll finish saying: I am a regular here, and very, very rarely lash out or say anything as above. One can see all my post and 80% of what I am saying is " Guys, let's keep this civil". But this made me wrote all that. I am not affiliated to CD Projekt in any way, shape o r form. I don't own the game, I always buy games when they reach GOTY.

ok witcher fan lol , for me i could care less about that game but hey glad you enyoied it.. but i have my own opinion about that shitty game that was made for nvidia with the redicouless hairphysics xD you do you boo ill keep my opinions for myself as i don't post much aswell , cyberpunk was one of the games i looked forward too if you can't understand that i am mad because they released early is my problem not yours and you shouldn't even care for my opinion or what i write here got it ? and for a devs point of view oh yes i am very ashamed for all the people that worked on this game only to be ruined by 1 ceo that made the decision to ruin it for everyone and release early ! that is why i am mad and rightfully so , the bullshit needs to stop. and yes then im talking about you saying " its ok to release an unfinished game aslong as we have the brain to wait and buy it when its finished to our personal standard ? LOL ! did you really think im gonna keep a list of unfinished released games that i will keep an eye on untill its playable ? LOL whatever , maybe i should not have replied i think you know how dumb you sound.

Best game ever for me at least Unreal 2004 still very actively played lots of mods by the community just hours of pure mindless frag and be fragged its great, but I may be biased as have played all the series since Unreal 99 but 04 was the pinnacle and its not been beaten since...not yet anyway

anticupidon:

Let's see. Witcher 3 won almost all prizes in the gaming history and CDProjekt could ride the wave and cash in the hype and sell (as greedy idiots) everything lore and DLC related. Yet, DLC and GOTY is what made them so loved in the gaming community, and GOG never cease to offer very good deals for CDProjekt games. And gamers got for free DLC and a LOT of game related lore and CD Projekt released even a fan requested video showing their gratitude [youtube=zgqz8Je7P0s] So much for greediness here. Or a good game!? Are you for real? Really @zhalonia , this is your way of posting on the forums? How many lines of code YOU write and sold yourself? Do you know the costs involved in developing and project management? Don't answer, there is no need. Please, don't wait any second and go to the CD Projekt HQ and show them how it is done, please. Releasing the Cyberpunk was a bet and a risk involving move. They knew it and now they took responsibility. Isn't this enough? On the other hand, getting the first batch in everything, be it games or hardware is always a high risk bet, you can be sure to be the guinea pig. So gamers are blaming CDProjekt for their unwillingness to wait and buy the game when it was ready? Speaking for the sake of speaking is something i can't stand. And I'll finish saying: I am a regular here, and very, very rarely lash out or say anything as above. One can see all my post and 80% of what I am saying is " Guys, let's keep this civil". But this made me wrote all that. I am not affiliated to CD Projekt in any way, shape o r form. I don't own the game, I always buy games when they reach GOTY.

They threw away any good will they created with Witcher 3 with Cyberpunk. 100 hour crunch weeks for devs to make the rushed release dates, then blaming the QA team for all the bugs on the consoles, marketing being just a bunch of lies about what the game was. Please stop yourself with the "how many lines of code did you write" - they took no responsibility, they just went "oh... uhm, yeah, uh, the QA team sure didn't do their job!" and just continued to rake in money. Just because you don't write code doesn't mean you can't criticize and that you can't see that corporate overlords just messed it up in the end. They didn't start actual development till a few years ago, the game today represents something like ~3 years of development, not 7. That's why they had to crunch so much, the game was all over the place and more akin to something like Anthem in its problems. It is supremely ironic that corporate politics ruined a cyberpunk game.

zhalonia:

ok witcher fan lol , for me i could care less about that game but hey glad you enyoied it.. but i have my own opinion about that shitty game that was made for nvidia with the redicouless hairphysics xD you do you boo ill keep my opinions for myself as i don't post much aswell , cyberpunk was one of the games i looked forward too if you can't understand that i am mad because they released early is my problem not yours and you shouldn't even care for my opinion or what i write here got it ? and for a devs point of view oh yes i am very ashamed for all the people that worked on this game only to be ruined by 1 ceo that made the decision to ruin it for everyone and release early ! that is why i am mad and rightfully so , the bullshit needs to stop. and yes then im talking about you saying " its ok to release an unfinished game aslong as we have the brain to wait and buy it when its finished to our personal standard ? LOL ! did you really think im gonna keep a list of unfinished released games that i will keep an eye on untill its playable ? LOL whatever , maybe i should not have replied i think you know how dumb you sound.

AlmondMan:

They threw away any good will they created with Witcher 3 with Cyberpunk. 100 hour crunch weeks for devs to make the rushed release dates, then blaming the QA team for all the bugs on the consoles, marketing being just a bunch of lies about what the game was. Please stop yourself with the "how many lines of code did you write" - they took no responsibility, they just went "oh... uhm, yeah, uh, the QA team sure didn't do their job!" and just continued to rake in money. Just because you don't write code doesn't mean you can't criticize and that you can't see that corporate overlords just messed it up in the end. They didn't start actual development till a few years ago, the game today represents something like ~3 years of development, not 7. That's why they had to crunch so much, the game was all over the place and more akin to something like Anthem in its problems. It is supremely ironic that corporate politics ruined a cyberpunk game.

To both of you. You, of course, are entitled to your opinion. Rightfully so. Now, @zhalonia Caring less for a well deserved and awarded game from the same dev team make you smarter and makes me a fan boy that sound dumb. I like you style. Still, I would agree: maybe we don't know what decision that CEO took and ruined the thing, even that the dev team gave 200% during the dev process and all. And please, twisting words and putting words in mouth doesn't work. I wasn't OK with releasing an unfinished game and I will never be. And nobody is forced to apply or even take in account my personal way of buying games or software. But, hey whatever, if it makes you look smarter, just go ahead. And calling out names for sure gets you a lot of attention. From the forums mods, not from me. @AlmondMan I asked about writing lines of code just to emphasize the situation where one tries to be in other's shoes. And yes, you can criticize and ask for your money back. Nobody forced any gamer to buy Cyberpunk and one is free to do whatever with money. And to finish this. I have no interest in follow this up and lose time in endless forum discussion. You are entitled to say whatever and for sure each one of you have reasons to say what you want. I respect that. Cheers,

Cyberpunk 2077 has me really confused. I own it, I've seen the bugs, and I don't really mind them. But I don't get the "complexity" talk. The game isn't complex at all. It has a large city, many bad people, more NPCs, some cars, some upgrades and more guns. So, vastness yes, But nothing more than that, not complexity. No choices that shape the future, no real interaction with the living city, nothing. And that, in my opinion is more of a problem than the bugs. It seems like a wasted opportunity for something great.

Mpampis:

Cyberpunk 2077 has me really confused. I own it, I've seen the bugs, and I don't really mind them. But I don't get the "complexity" talk. The game isn't complex at all. It has a large city, many bad people, more NPCs, some cars, some upgrades and more guns. So, vastness yes, But nothing more than that, not complexity. No choices that shape the future, no real interaction with the living city, nothing. And that, in my opinion is more of a problem than the bugs. It seems like a wasted opportunity for something great.

Maybe they're talking about complexity of environment. The world and the many interactions and ghosts and mirrors created to make it seem like a real place is a complex creation. Even if there's nothing in the way of more complex AI at all, getting that many things to work together is complex, regardless. That the game seems to be completely linear and unneeding of this great big open world, and probably would've been better served if they'd just created a series of levels you progress through, is a completely different thing. In advertisement in the past they discussed how it'd be a great big open world RPG with lots of choices that would affect the story and its outcome. How there'd be branching paths with backgrounds that mattered and so on and so forth. Seems none of that is present and they would've been better served with having less a focus on an open world that is unbelievable due to poorly implemented AI solutions like the police, GTA1 in 1997 had more complex police AI, e.g. they'd not just shoot you - there was a primitive escalation and this was carried through and refined in newer GTA games. A lack of things like a faction system, GTA 2 had gangs with respect systems in 1999, and so on... why is it there if they didn't do anything this obvious with it? A baffling game that obviously was rushed and poorly directed.

Mpampis:

Cyberpunk 2077 has me really confused. I own it, I've seen the bugs, and I don't really mind them. But I don't get the "complexity" talk. The game isn't complex at all. It has a large city, many bad people, more NPCs, some cars, some upgrades and more guns. So, vastness yes, But nothing more than that, not complexity. No choices that shape the future, no real interaction with the living city, nothing. And that, in my opinion is more of a problem than the bugs. It seems like a wasted opportunity for something great.

Even Witcher 3 seems to have more complexity in that regard. The one thing that annoys me in CP2077 is the flickering with DLSS enabled when checking inventory, map and so on, so kinda forced to play it with RT+DLSS disabled. Rest of the game seems ok, playing at slow pace so I might not run into certain bugs before they are fixed.

Chess:

You can simplify anything to crap if you really want to, but I strongly believe there are some fantastic games in the past 10 years. People who enjoyed PC through the 90's and 00's have the tendency to compare everything to that feeling of playing Doom, System shock or half-life for the very first time. We should stop that. I ogled my eyes out when playing Alyx for the first time as well.

I would add new Wolfenstein games, and Dishonored ones - pretty solid in all aspects.

AlmondMan:

That the game seems to be completely linear and unneeding of this great big open world, and probably would've been better served if they'd just created a series of levels you progress through, is a completely different thing. In advertisement in the past they discussed how it'd be a great big open world RPG with lots of choices that would affect the story and its outcome. How there'd be branching paths with backgrounds that mattered and so on and so forth.

This is actually incorrect, and only holds true, if you only play the main story line. But there are major side quests with major side characters, that can go many ways, and actually end up heavily influencing the main story in the end aswell. You could argue many of these major side quests should have been part of the main story line, but CDPR said they wanted to make the main story shorter than witcher 3 (cause plebs have the attention span of goldfish), thus branched out alot of significant stuff to side quests.

itpro:

Only RTX 20/30 owners defend this game to justify their overpriced bricks as always.

Says the salty one.

mbk1969:

I would add new Wolfenstein games, and Dishonored ones - pretty solid in all aspects.

Actually playing through both wolfenstein games now again.

DeskStar:

Actually playing through both wolfenstein games now again.

Do you enjoy them? I did a lot.

Dragam1337:

This is actually incorrect, and only holds true, if you only play the main story line. But there are major side quests with major side characters, that can go many ways, and actually end up heavily influencing the main story in the end aswell. You could argue many of these major side quests should have been part of the main story line, but CDPR said they wanted to make the main story shorter than witcher 3 (cause plebs have the attention span of goldfish), thus branched out alot of significant stuff to side quests.

The marketing, response from reviews, players who played it and friends who played it that I've gotten so far has confused me as to what this game even is at this point. One friend described it as reminding him of playing a Call of Duty game because it was so linear and that he could find nothing of the RPG elements that they had promised. Then others are like "i'm on my 5th playthrough with a bazingo archetype" and I'm here watching videos of t-posing characters, people falling through the world, flying cars, police spawning in behind the player and guys smoking their assault rifle. So - at this point I'm just going to wait with this one for another few years. I didn't play Witcher 3 till this year either, and that was a fun experience. Even if the main quest felt a bit dragged and dull at times. There were excellent moments, and I really enjoyed the DLC - didn't actually finish the Blood & Wine one yet - the news of the RT patch made me wait.

suty455:

Best game ever for me at least Unreal 2004 still very actively played lots of mods by the community just hours of pure mindless frag and be fragged its great, but I may be biased as have played all the series since Unreal 99 but 04 was the pinnacle and its not been beaten since...not yet anyway

Yeah, that game really got it right. It looked great for its time, while being very easy on hardware. Not only was it easy to mod for but the game openly welcomed them. The music was great. There was a good selection of characters. There were tons of fun game modes, and so many ways to play them. With community maps, you could play the game for the better part of a whole week before you played them all for every mode. It didn't take itself too seriously, while also being a very seriously competitive game. The bots were actually a real challenge, and were what really honed my skills to the point that people would vote-ban me because they thought I was cheating (I never have). And... it had 64 bit Linux support, which was a nice bonus to me considering how hardly any games at the time were ported. Though back then, I mostly gamed on Windows.

Fox2232:

I remember DX3...

I think we need to agree to disagree here. You bring many respectable points, yet I detect a vast difference in how we both enjoy our games. Perhaps... I'm easy to please 😉

Venix:

Indies got a lot of my time last decade ! Rimworld , darkest dungeon , kenshi are the three that come to mind. People consider bad what ever they do not like .... I for example when i was asked if the zelda series is good i said yes it is good most of the games in there are in all time classic status . And then came the question witch one is the best ... Just for me to respond , no idea never played em i do not like em personally 😛 he was so confused ! Anyway what i am trying to say is that is ok to not like a game but that does not make trash or even bad it can still be a great game .

This holds true for decades: If you're passionate, you can make fantastic games as an indy dev. Alas, much of the time, the recognition isn't there. I kept out Indy games because they're just sooo many! And I can't possibly name every hidden gem.

zhalonia:

ok witcher fan lol , for me i could care less about that game but hey glad you enyoied it.. but i have my own opinion about that shitty game that was made for nvidia with the redicouless hairphysics xD you do you boo ill keep my opinions for myself as i don't post much aswell , cyberpunk was one of the games i looked forward too if you can't understand that i am mad because they released early is my problem not yours and you shouldn't even care for my opinion or what i write here got it ? and for a devs point of view oh yes i am very ashamed for all the people that worked on this game only to be ruined by 1 ceo that made the decision to ruin it for everyone and release early ! that is why i am mad and rightfully so , the bullshit needs to stop. and yes then im talking about you saying " its ok to release an unfinished game aslong as we have the brain to wait and buy it when its finished to our personal standard ? LOL ! did you really think im gonna keep a list of unfinished released games that i will keep an eye on untill its playable ? LOL whatever , maybe i should not have replied i think you know how dumb you sound.

Reported.

AlmondMan:

The marketing, response from reviews, players who played it and friends who played it that I've gotten so far has confused me as to what this game even is at this point. One friend described it as reminding him of playing a Call of Duty game because it was so linear and that he could find nothing of the RPG elements that they had promised. Then others are like "i'm on my 5th playthrough with a bazingo archetype" and I'm here watching videos of t-posing characters, people falling through the world, flying cars, police spawning in behind the player and guys smoking their assault rifle. So - at this point I'm just going to wait with this one for another few years. I didn't play Witcher 3 till this year either, and that was a fun experience. Even if the main quest felt a bit dragged and dull at times. There were excellent moments, and I really enjoyed the DLC - didn't actually finish the Blood & Wine one yet - the news of the RT patch made me wait.

If you haven't played the game yourself, then perhaps stop posting about what the game is or isn't...

Dragam1337:

If you haven't played the game yourself, then perhaps stop posting about what the game is or isn't...

I think he has right to put trust to what his friends tell him and what he sees on videos. Your view is same as: "You are not politician, so stop talking politics." "You are not teacher, so stop teaching." ...