I really like the Model S but the price tag is crazy.

I really like the Model S but the price tag is crazy.

Totally ... I can see myself in a Model 3 though. But I am rather scared as to what the extras and optionals are gonna cost.

I'll translate it to humanly readable language: When this vehicle runs at average speed of 40km/h, it eats 91Wh/km. That means 3640Wh per hour of moving. So it is 3,64kW of input power. With 85% motor and circuitry efficiency, it is 3,1kW of work delivered. That translates to 4,16 hp (horsepower). Apparently that means it has been tested in very favorable conditions where not much power was needed. But it is still good feat of engineering.

I'm still not convinced by electric cars being environmentally friendlier, there is of course the argument that the environmental cost of power generation is simply moved to power plants and also the whole thing regarding battery disposal hasn't been fully costed yet. How long do these batteries last before needing to be replaced? What is the cost of producing more and more units? Safety also; I've seen reports on crashes involving battery powered cars and the resultant fire burned so hot and fast that in minutes there was nothing left, I'd rather take my chances with fossil fuels!

*slow clap* if I could put 1,500 pounds of fuel in my car, I could go almost 7000 miles. That's fair since the Tesla probably weighs 5,000 pounds and my car weighs about 3,500.

*slow clap* if I could put 1,500 pounds of fuel in my car, I could go almost 7000 miles. That's fair since the Tesla probably weighs 5,000 pounds and my car weighs about 3,500.

DO IT!!!! I'd pay to see that happen...!

would love to know how much of a hit the batteries took from being completely emptied. im using different type of Li based batteries and most will only "allow" for a few discharges below nom voltage before taking a hit (lowering capacity). most ecars still produce an equal amount of total emissions by EOL, e.g. when a prius hybrid goes to the landfill, it will have the same impact on environment as a V8 driven Ford F-150. besides that, a 1985 golf diesel gets 50mpg, same as a toyota hybrid, without the impact of the lithium.

Was reading the UK is banning the sales of combustion engine vehicles in 2040, electric sales only after then

Totally ... I can see myself in a Model 3 though. But I am rather scared as to what the extras and optionals are gonna cost.

I saw a video about this. You can choose between 6-7 basic colours, very few options and then 5000$ for each upgrade pack. There are two of them and they mainly affect the self-driving experience.

I really like the Model S but the price tag is crazy.

Not sure about Florida, but many US states offer hefty discounts and tax breaks due to federal or state-specific incentives for greener transportation.

I'm still not convinced by electric cars being environmentally friendlier, there is of course the argument that the environmental cost of power generation is simply moved to power plants and also the whole thing regarding battery disposal hasn't been fully costed yet. How long do these batteries last before needing to be replaced? What is the cost of producing more and more units? Safety also; I've seen reports on crashes involving battery powered cars and the resultant fire burned so hot and fast that in minutes there was nothing left, I'd rather take my chances with fossil fuels!

They aren't more environmentally friendly, if you use fossil fuels from a remote power plant. If you use newable energy or your own biodiesel generator, then they are definitively more environmentally friendly. From what I heard, their batteries are very well made and have a surprisingly low degradation rate. It's good enough that Apple has seriously considered buying Tesla (though it will never happen, according to Elon). And sure, lithium fires are no joke - it's a very reactive metal where pouring water on it will often just fuel the fire. But Teslas are generally pretty good at avoiding accidents in the first place.

I'm still not convinced by electric cars being environmentally friendlier, there is of course the argument that the environmental cost of power generation is simply moved to power plants and also the whole thing regarding battery disposal hasn't been fully costed yet. How long do these batteries last before needing to be replaced? What is the cost of producing more and more units? Safety also; I've seen reports on crashes involving battery powered cars and the resultant fire burned so hot and fast that in minutes there was nothing left, I'd rather take my chances with fossil fuels!

I have the same doubts about electric cars regarding their environmental footprint. We are still a long way of producing all our energy from renewable sources, a critical aspect for electrics being cleaner than ICE cars, and the rare materials needed for the batteries and the recycling for the same are still a very big issue without any clear answer. Not to mention the huge investments needed to create the necessary structure for electrics and the pollution created by the same investments... I think the current push for electrics is due to the pollution caused by ICE cars in big cities together with politics trying/wanting to show they care about the environment and that they are doing something about it, like those silly promises of banning ICE cars in cities in 2 or 3 decades... This way they can pretend they are doing something about it...

Totally ... I can see myself in a Model 3 though. But I am rather scared as to what the extras and optionals are gonna cost.

I can understand the appeal of the model S but i can´t say the same from model 3. The car seems ugly from the exterior and the interior is horrible!!! I think you´re better of waiting to see what Nissan has to offer with the new Leaf... Just promise me that if you buy an electric, that you are going to overclock it hard!...

I have the same doubts about electric cars regarding their environmental footprint. We are still a long way of producing all our energy from renewable sources, a critical aspect for electrics being cleaner than ICE cars, and the rare materials needed for the batteries and the recycling for the same are still a very big issue without any clear answer. Not to mention the huge investments needed to create the necessary structure for electrics and the pollution created by the same investments... I think the current push for electrics is due to the pollution caused by ICE cars in big cities together with politics trying/wanting to show they care about the environment and that they are doing something about it, like those silly promises of banning ICE cars in cities in 2 or 3 decades... This way they can pretend they are doing something about it... I can understand the appeal of the model S but i can´t say the same from model 3. The car seems ugly from the exterior and the interior is horrible!!! I think you´re better of waiting to see what Nissan has to offer with the new Leaf... Just promise me that if you buy an electric, that you are going to overclock it hard!...

Even if the power is generated entirely by coal, it's still more efficient then having hundreds of thousands of gas engines + the infrastructure required to move that fuel. Like one of the best things about using a battery and electricity is that the power generation can be centralized and the efficiency of transporting power is way better than any other resource. And as that power generation becomes cleaner, every car on the road becomes cleaner. Switch that coal plant to a fusion one in 15-20 years every car on the planet gets significantly cleaner. Li-Ion waste and other stuff is an issue but they advancing the recycling of it fairly often. Battery technology in general will probably be advanced rather quickly as the requirement ramps up. This will benefit multiple different industries too. There is obviously some downsides, as there is in every technology - i just think there is a net benefit overall moving to electric cars. Not only for the environment but even the car. The maintenance on an electric vehicle is theoretically way lower for example.

Not to mention the huge investments needed to create the necessary structure for electrics and the pollution created by the same investments...

With the exception of the hazardous waste refining the lithium, Telsa's got you covered on that one: https://www.tesla.com/gigafactory Building a giant solar-powered facility in the middle of a desert wasteland will have basically no effect on the ecosystem.

I think the current push for electrics is due to the pollution caused by ICE cars in big cities together with politics trying/wanting to show they care about the environment and that they are doing something about it, like those silly promises of banning ICE cars in cities in 2 or 3 decades... This way they can pretend they are doing something about it...

Here's the thing: Electric cars can potentially be much more environmentally friendly. The way the car operates itself is indisputably more efficient than an ICE car. The only part that's questionable is the net efficiency and/or net waste, from the source of power.

I think you´re better of waiting to see what Nissan has to offer with the new Leaf...

For electric cars, Chevy seems to be the best alternative to Tesla at the moment. Normally I have 0 interest in any of Chevy's lineup, but if I were to buy an all-electric car, it would be a Chevy Bolt.

Even if the power is generated entirely by coal, it's still more efficient then having hundreds of thousands of gas engines + the infrastructure required to move that fuel. Like one of the best things about using a battery and electricity is that the power generation can be centralized and the efficiency of transporting power is way better than any other resource. And as that power generation becomes cleaner, every car on the road becomes cleaner. Switch that coal plant to a fusion one in 15-20 years every car on the planet gets significantly cleaner. Li-Ion waste and other stuff is an issue but they advancing the recycling of it fairly often. Battery technology in general will probably be advanced rather quickly as the requirement ramps up. This will benefit multiple different industries too. There is obviously some downsides, as there is in every technology - i just think there is a net benefit overall moving to electric cars. Not only for the environment but even the car. The maintenance on an electric vehicle is theoretically way lower for example.

I also believe that electrics cars are cleaner and more efficient than ICE ones but i´m not sure that the difference is that big in the end when we factor everything evolved. As for electrical cars becoming cleaner and more efficient in the future due to advancements in their tech the same applies to ICE cars. But if people are really interested in a cleaner environment regarding cars, there´s right now a much better and cheaper solution that can be deployed immediately but i guess very few would like that solution...

With the exception of the hazardous waste refining the lithium, Telsa's got you covered on that one: https://www.tesla.com/gigafactory Building a giant solar-powered facility in the middle of a desert wasteland will have basically no effect on the ecosystem.

I would take with a grain of salt what Tesla says. After all they are an interested party in the affair. As for the Chevy Bolt, it´s interesting but i think the Leaf is going to be a better car.

Even if the power is generated entirely by coal, it's still more efficient then having hundreds of thousands of gas engines + the infrastructure required to move that fuel. Like one of the best things about using a battery and electricity is that the power generation can be centralized and the efficiency of transporting power is way better than any other resource. And as that power generation becomes cleaner, every car on the road becomes cleaner. Switch that coal plant to a fusion one in 15-20 years every car on the planet gets significantly cleaner. Li-Ion waste and other stuff is an issue but they advancing the recycling of it fairly often. Battery technology in general will probably be advanced rather quickly as the requirement ramps up. This will benefit multiple different industries too. There is obviously some downsides, as there is in every technology - i just think there is a net benefit overall moving to electric cars. Not only for the environment but even the car. The maintenance on an electric vehicle is theoretically way lower for example.

I doubt it will hold up under practice with all the money involved.

670 miles in 29 hours, Is that not horse back speed

How about battery when there is -20C or even -45C frost? That car needs to be heated somehow too without fuel engine, and hope these batterys going to last also on cold weather. Quite a tress for a normal battery if cars stays outside few days in cold winter.

@Denial The problem isnt with the use/recycling of the li, its getting it out the ground, refined, shipped etc thats adding emissions/pollutants. Not even talking about the few countries that have them and the control over it...

As for electrical cars becoming cleaner and more efficient in the future due to advancements in their tech the same applies to ICE cars.

Not really, when you consider how long ICEs have existed, and how little their their efficiency has improved in the last century. In a best-case scenario, a modern ICE will be roughly 60% efficient, and that's when you're revving it to the redline without much load. In most scenarios, they're around 40% efficient. Remember - there is a lot of power loss by the time the power reaches the wheels. There just isn't a whole lot left to improve. So, manufacturers are left to figure out alternative ways to improve fuel economy, like taking things off the timing belt (such as power steering), more complex transmissions, and weight reduction. Diesels, meanwhile, have improved significantly in efficiency, but that comes at the price of their robustness. You can't run a modern diesel on vegetable oil without expensive modifications (diesels were originally designed to run on veggie oil). Something many people aren't aware of either is bigger displacements are more efficient, despite their worse fuel economy. In other words, you are proportionately getting more power out of your fuel with a 2.5l vs a 2.0l, but you're also using more fuel. Fuel economy is the number everyone cares about, so that's what manufacturers focus on.

But if people are really interested in a cleaner environment regarding cars, there´s right now a much better and cheaper solution that can be deployed immediately but i guess very few would like that solution...

I don't think it's so much a matter of liking the alternatives but rather they're not viable in modern society. A bicycle is not ideal in bitter cold and icy winters. Having an electric moped that you recharge via solar panels isn't going to go fast enough on the highway. Most people aren't within walking distance of the places they need to go. Not everyone has access to public transportation.

I would take with a grain of salt what Tesla says. After all they are an interested party in the affair.

I take your point, but I sincerely believe them with this. Their claims are very believable - in case you're not aware, that is the largest building (horizontally) in the world and the entire roof of it is solar panels dedicated to its needs. Worst case scenario, all they have to do is slow down the charge rate of their completed cars/batteries. But, it wouldn't surprise me if they have enough solar energy to sell to wherever the nearest city is.

As for the Chevy Bolt, it´s interesting but i think the Leaf is going to be a better car.

Why? I don't know about next year's model, but for 2017 the Leaf is an objectively worse car. Despite being up to 6% lighter, the Leaf's range is much worse, the efficiency is slightly worse, and it has worse safety ratings (though the Bolt apparently isn't great for children). For more subjective things, many critics enjoy the Bolt more, and the Leaf is pretty ugly. Though the Leaf isn't the worst all-electric car on the market, I would also pick the VW e-Golf and Mercedes B-class over a Leaf. But, to each his/her own.

Why is this front page news on Guru3d? Please Hilbert the last thing I come here for is Tesla news I can go to any news site for that.