@rl66 google taking 30% is also too much on google's defense they allow you to install any apk you want from an external source sure they provide a service .... still 30% is way too much a credit card also provides you a service but it takes a cut from 1 to 3% ... i would like to see em trying to get 30% on a credit card people will be so acceptive and be like ... yeah they provide a service that like ...costs ... so thats fine ! or rather they will turn on full cash ...

Venix:

@rl66 google taking 30% is also too much on google's defense they allow you to install any apk you want from an external source sure they provide a service .... still 30% is way too much a credit card also provides you a service but it takes a cut from 1 to 3% ... i would like to see em trying to get 30% on a credit card people will be so acceptive and be like ... yeah they provide a service that like ...costs ... so thats fine ! or rather they will turn on full cash ...

But Epic were knowing that, when they sign up with Google and Apple and i don't think that if it was only 10% it would have change anything for them. Also Epic have been kicked out by both to brake the contract by changing their program in a way to cheat them (previous version is totaly Ok with EU's law, Google and Apple). Epic play and Epic fail (and also fall back on the dark side by accepting back blood money, because no control again). And now they make a drama to victimise their company and make player believe that Google and Apple are the bad one, as an argument to push... In fact they don't care about player but about money.

rl66:

But Epic were knowing that, when they sign up with Google and Apple and i don't think that if it was only 10% it would have change anything for them. Also Epic have been kicked out by both to brake the contract by changing their program in a way to cheat them (previous version is totaly Ok with EU's law, Google and Apple). Epic play and Epic fail (and also fall back on the dark side by accepting back blood money, because no control again). And now they make a drama to victimise their company and make player believe that Google and Apple are the bad one, as an argument to push... In fact they don't care about player but about money.

of course they knew that ..... but epic knew exactly when to strike ...THIS IS NOT about making some money with vbacks ! ...see the bigger picture they lunch that after the eu antitrust investigation started .... Epic is playing the long game ... mark my words if epic win this and both platforms open up for more stores epic will have an epic store for android and apple devices most likely ready to go seems too well planned to be just about Vbucks ! to sum up i believe that indeed ...30% is WAY too much of a cut , Do i love apple google or epic ...nooooo they are big corporation with ultimate goal more profit ! Do i want epic to win ? yes actually i do but not cause i love Epic i do not give a darn about epic but if apple and google are forced to allow anyone to open their store that would mean competition and competition often brings lower prices ... lower prices are good in my books ! And i honestly HONESTLY do not care if google or apple or epic loose money . About fortnight i played for 10 mins 1 round when it began when PugG was still higher in population to see what the fuss is about i got bored and uninstalled it ... i do not care what happens on fortnight as well !

Apple is the 3rd biggest video games company in the world. Apple doesn't make video games. Still, bigger than Microsoft and its entire Xbox ecosystem (and its denied GamePass app on iOS), and their Microsoft Studios (Flight Simulator 2020) Bigger than Nintendo, Activision Blizzard, EA, Take-2, Warner Bros, Ubisoft.... ! How the hell did we end up with such non-sense ? https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1300096274822295552 https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-25-companies-game-revenues/ https://i.imgur.com/8ssSD0b.png

Don't the console makers charge a similar fee for games on their box? If so, how is what Apple is doing any different? If it's not, do they deserve to be sued as well? I am normally all for supporting the underdogs in these situations. But I'm having a hard time with the idea that Apple deserves to be treated differently (i.e. punished) because they've been wildly successful. I don't buy their products (Android/Windows personally) but painting them as the bad guy because they charge a fee for their platform and aren't budging on it seems silly. This sounds like Epic just doesn't have a strong enough business case for Fortnite on mobile. It sounds like they aren't generating enough revenue from their Mobile players to justify their costs, so instead of packing it up, they're in a last ditch effort to try and force their costs down.

rm082e:

Don't the console makers charge a similar fee for games on their box? If so, how is what Apple is doing any different? If it's not, do they deserve to be sued as well? I am normally all for supporting the underdogs in these situations. But I'm having a hard time with the idea that Apple deserves to be treated differently (i.e. punished) because they've been wildly successful. I don't buy their products (Android/Windows personally) but painting them as the bad guy because they charge a fee for their platform and aren't budging on it seems silly. This sounds like Epic just doesn't have a strong enough business case for Fortnite on mobile. It sounds like they aren't generating enough revenue from their Mobile players to justify their costs, so instead of packing it up, they're in a last ditch effort to try and force their costs down.

Games bought on Microsoft store can go as low as 5% to Microsoft and 95% to Developer/Publisher, it requires the game developper/publisher to handle the game downloading/distribution, otherwise it's 15%. Also, Microsoft doesn't have its hands in the cookie jar, if there's in-game payment that's from the game developer. Microsoft isn't forcing you to use its own payment system and taking another 30% from all in-game payment (CoD Battlepass/Fortnite skins, whatever ...).

XenthorX:

Games bought on Microsoft store can go as low as 5% to Microsoft and 95% to Developer/Publisher, it requires the game developper/publisher to handle the game downloading/distribution, otherwise it's 15%. Also, Microsoft doesn't have its hands in the cookie jar, if there's in-game payment that's from the game developer. Microsoft isn't forcing you to use its own payment system and taking another 30% from all in-game payment (CoD Battlepass/Fortnite skins, whatever ...).

If the argument is Apple takes too large of a cut relative to other stores, or that they aren't as flexible, I think that could be a winning argument. I have not gotten deep into the details on this lawsuit, so I'm probably behind.

how there 30% any diffrent from the 30% sony asks on there platform? atlest last i read it was 30% anyway this whole thing stupid Epic started it and Apple continues the stupid Any damage done to Epics name or game is done by them selves seeing they instigated/started it all

tsunami231:

how there 30% any diffrent from the 30% sony asks on there platform? atlest last i read it was 30% anyway this whole thing stupid Epic started it and Apple continues the stupid Any damage done to Epics name or game is done by them selves seeing they instigated/started it all

Sony doesn't force games to use Sony payment system for in-game purchases, Sony also owns game studios and the Playstation ecosystem. Apple takes 30% upfront, force you to use their payment system in-app, and take another 30% in the process on all future transactions.

same can be argue for epic, or hell countless other "game" companies I dont like Apple I dont like Epic I never liked Epic only thing good to come out them was unreal engine and "unreal" games, Epic is only doing what they doing now and last few years cause of unreal engine. I probably hate EA even more then 2 of them follower by Activision. now they want customer to help Epic when Epic start this and effect there own customers by cause the game to be pulled, and possible the engine it self, because they no longer want to agree to there the terms? It constantly amazing me how complains can sue of this stuff especial when they violated terms in first place. just for the other company to sue them for something just as stupid. 2 kids in a sand pit playing childish games

XenthorX:

Sony doesn't force games to use Sony payment system for in-game purchases, Sony also owns game studios and the Playstation ecosystem. Apple takes 30% upfront, force you to use their payment system in-app, and take another 30% in the process on all future transactions.

google asks the same I last checked, again term are terms if epic dont like they dont get to distribute. epic is the one that cause issue to there customers and there brand not Apple, is Apple right in what they doing im sure in there eye and there lawyer eyes they are. But this all stupid but use the customers to help win something they started and knew was gona happen. all cause epic dont want to play ball is low even for epic

The whole 30% of the store, without alternative, and the fact that you're forced to used a specific payment system, with another 30%. This is just locking any form of competition out, creating a paywall on the work of others, that's unlawful or at least that's what Epic is wanting to prove. The benefit of it all could impact every app creator for those platform, it goes beyond Epic at this point. Now it would be fairly naive to believe that a small company could take on Apple in court and stand a chance at making it change for the better. Epic at least has the means to do something and act on it. Epic has been stating for years that those 30% are unbearable for the gaming industry, an industry they've been an integral part of for over 20 years, an Industry Apple is to this day totally disconnected from, to the point of creating their own store. It would be hypocritical for them not to act on it regarding the Apple and Playstore.

XenthorX:

The whole 30% of the store, without alternative, and the fact that you're forced to used a specific payment system, with another 30%. This is just locking any form of competition out, creating a paywall on the work of others, that's unlawful or at least that's what Epic is wanting to prove. The benefit of it all could impact every app creator for those platform, it goes beyond Epic at this point. Now it would be fairly naive to believe that a small company could take on Apple in court and stand a chance at making it change for the better. Epic at least has the means to do something and act on it. Epic has been stating for years that those 30% are unbearable for the gaming industry, an industry they've been an integral part of for over 20 years, an Industry Apple is to this day totally disconnected from, to the point of creating their own store. It would be hypocritical for them not to act on it regarding the Apple and Playstore.

Also Epic has no legs to stand on when it comes to locking out any form of competition when they have that stupid timed PC game exclusives and stating that it is unlawful when they are doing something similar in the PC gaming market.

Venix:

of course they knew that ..... but epic knew exactly when to strike ...THIS IS NOT about making some money with vbacks ! ...see the bigger picture they lunch that after the eu antitrust investigation started .... Epic is playing the long game ... mark my words if epic win this and both platforms open up for more stores epic will have an epic store for android and apple devices most likely ready to go seems too well planned to be just about Vbucks ! to sum up i believe that indeed ...30% is WAY too much of a cut , Do i love apple google or epic ...nooooo they are big corporation with ultimate goal more profit ! Do i want epic to win ? yes actually i do but not cause i love Epic i do not give a darn about epic but if apple and google are forced to allow anyone to open their store that would mean competition and competition often brings lower prices ... lower prices are good in my books ! And i honestly HONESTLY do not care if google or apple or epic loose money . About fortnight i played for 10 mins 1 round when it began when PugG was still higher in population to see what the fuss is about i got bored and uninstalled it ... i do not care what happens on fortnight as well !

As i see, the Epic's communication worked 🙁 , the origin of the problem IS NOT the 30% (this is the fog), it is HOW you buy on Fortnite that have changed and cause problem to many (not only Google and Apple).

tsunami231:

now they want customer to help Epic when Epic start this and effect there own customers by cause the game to be pulled, and possible the engine it self, because they no longer want to agree to there the terms?

Nope the engine will not be pulled, they have found a agrement on that point (but there is still the problem of unreal engine with future OS compatibility)

rl66:

As i see, the Epic's communication worked 🙁 , the origin of the problem IS NOT the 30% (this is the fog), it is HOW you buy on Fortnite that have changed and cause problem to many (not only Google and Apple).

you are mistaken ... Epic does not aim Vbacks Epic is trying to squeeze their store in. here is a Small piece from the 60 page lawsuit page 22 81. Apple has enforced these restrictions against Epic. Epic approached Apple to request that Apple allow Epic to offer its Epic Games Store to Apple’s iOS users through the App Store and direct installation. Apple’s response was an unequivocal “no”. iii. Lack of Procompetitive Justification 82. There is no procompetitive justification for Apple’s anti-competitive conduct in the iOS App Distribution Market. 83. Apple has asserted that blocking third-party app distribution platforms is necessary to enforce privacy and security safeguards. This is a pretext that Apple has used to foreclose all competition in the iOS App Distribution Market in which it has absolute monopoly power. A simple comparison to how Apple handles third-party software on its Mac personal computers illustrates how baseless its justifications are. Apple allows Mac users to access a number of different distribution channels to download software applications to their computers, including direct downloads from developer websites and the ability to purchase software applications from stores offered by third parties that compete with Apple’s App Store. The consumer experience of acquiring software on Apple personal computers and Apple’s smartphones is night and day. There is no legitimate reason why the same competitive structure for acquiring software on an Apple personal computer could not safely and securely exist on Apple’s smart mobile devices. SOURCE : https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf i tell you Epic calculated that move they plan to try and get a ruling on courts that allow em to have their competing store in our phones! All they did was play Apple you do not pull a video propaganda style ...and a 60 page lawsuit in less than 24 hours that was planned a while now ,

vazup:

And Microsoft got almost split up 20 years agos just because it had pre-instaled Explorer and its own programs like Word because that was considered monopoly despite as far as I remember there was always an option to download other software... Let that sink in.

At the time that Microsoft was fighting that anti-trust suit, the most well known browsers aside from Internet Explorer were Netscape Navigator and AOL's built-in browser. At the time, Netscape Navigator cost $19.99USD.... Nobody had even heard of Opera at that point. Firefox was still years away from existing.

schmidtbag:

As for Microsoft, I don't suppose you've heard of the Windows Store? Again, like Android, you do have the option to evade it if you want.

I don't know how much Microsoft charges for distribution through the Windows store, but most of the apps are complete garbage. I've found very few that are even remotely useful. For a lot of what's sold, you can find free alternatives on the internet that are higher quality.

schmidtbag:

I would argue Apple is the only one really in the wrong here, since they don't really give you any option for an alternative.

Apple is not the only one wrong in this particular instance. EPIC knew they were in violation of the ToS for Apple's App store. They didn't care. As a result, their users are being punished. EPIC is guilty of breach of contract while Apple is guilty of having a monopoly. One doesn't justify the other.

RooiKreef:

I can't believe Epic Games want to argue with Apple... I mean they went to Apple for business on Apple's platform and store, yet they don't want to follow Apple's t&c's... Wtf???

In EPIC's defense..... (don't worry, I dislike EPIC plenty and I'd generally be more inclined to defend Apple, but neither are right, morally or ethically)... Apple should not have the kind of control over software development or distribution that they do. They have a monopoly, as defined by US law. No other company has never been allowed the kind of control that Apple has always had. Apple should have been bitch-slapped by a Judge numerous times over the years.

sykozis:

I don't know how much Microsoft charges for distribution through the Windows store, but most of the apps are complete garbage. I've found very few that are even remotely useful. For a lot of what's sold, you can find free alternatives on the internet that are higher quality.

lol yes I agree, the only time I've used the Windows store for anything was because of a device that didn't have a full version of Windows. I hate using it.

Apple is not the only one wrong in this particular instance. EPIC knew they were in violation of the ToS for Apple's App store. They didn't care. As a result, their users are being punished. EPIC is guilty of breach of contract while Apple is guilty of having a monopoly. One doesn't justify the other.

I 100% agree, and have even made the same point myself elsewhere. I think you misunderstood me though: I meant Apple is the only one in the wrong of OSes that have their own stores. So compared to Android, Windows, and even Mac OS, you're not forced to use the suggested store. On iOS, you don't have a choice - you must use the App Store to get anything. So, that makes Apple extra scummy in that situation, because they can charge whatever they want and if anyone balks, you're kicked out.

I'm reading this debate and just wondering, who even wants to play Fortnite on a phone? Or, pretty much, any AAA game on a phone. But I digress...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c1/c6/eb/c1c6eb36b358864d60d95bfda39c593b.jpg