Aw, here we go again, just 3 days after the driver got released

Knew this one was coming though.

kurtextrem:

Aw, here we go again, just 3 days after the driver got released

And whats the problem here ? You need the fixes?, Install it. Dont need it?, Ignore it...

kurtextrem:

Aw, here we go again, just 3 days after the driver got released

Too soon? You'd rather wait 5 days? 7? Oh wait, you're being silly. You're the same sort who'd complain if there WASN'T a fix and be screaming "why haven't they fixed this yet!!!!! grrrrrr" Get a grip mate.

r436_45-7

kurtextrem:

Aw, here we go again, just 3 days after the driver got released

I don't understand why NVIDIA do this. Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to release this as the official certified driver a few days later, one with fewer issues, than a buggy one followed by a hotfix only a few days later? I admit that I was quite shocked at how many major release games have issues still with NVIDIA drivers from the release notes. FIFA is now fixed via this hotfix but Gears has been problematic for NVIDIA for years now since Gears of War 4. The Division 2 DX12 issue has also been a problem for a while. In fact, it seems like DX12 just isn't a good match for NVIDIA graphics cards, either due to developer error or because the API itself just isn't all that well coded at the Windows level by Microsoft. Whatever, DX12 has certainly been a massive disappointment really, perhaps more so than the woefully undersupported DX10 (you remember that one, the one that was initially exclusive to Windows 8 or was it Vista?). In my experience, it is usually best to avoid DX12 entirely on the GTX 1080 Ti and use DX11 where available. With that said, Microsoft's own UWP games such as the Forza series seem to run without issue on my system.

Darren Hodgson:

I admit that I was quite shocked at how many major release games have issues still with NVIDIA drivers from the release notes. FIFA is now fixed via this hotfix but Gears has been problematic for NVIDIA for years now since Gears of War 4. The Division 2 DX12 issue has also been a problem for a while.

How is it any more shocking than when AMD wouldn't let Destiny 2 run on their new CPUs at launch? They all have issues, big or small.

Darren Hodgson:

In fact, it seems like DX12 just isn't a good match for NVIDIA graphics cards, either due to developer error or because the API itself just isn't all that well coded at the Windows level by Microsoft. Whatever, DX12 has certainly been a massive disappointment really, perhaps more so than the woefully undersupported DX10 (you remember that one, the one that was initially exclusive to Windows 8 or was it Vista?). In my experience, it is usually best to avoid DX12 entirely on the GTX 1080 Ti and use DX11 where available. With that said, Microsoft's own UWP games such as the Forza series seem to run without issue on my system.

Most games have both DX11 and DX12 support. And DX12 hold no real benefit anyway over DX11 on nVidia in most cases. Unless there is a visual reason you need DX12, such as RTX, there is no real reason to use it, DX11 is vastly superior and more stable as developers are more familiar with it.

Darren Hodgson:

I admit that I was quite shocked at how many major release games have issues still with NVIDIA drivers from the release notes. FIFA is now fixed via this hotfix but Gears has been problematic for NVIDIA for years now since Gears of War 4. The Division 2 DX12 issue has also been a problem for a while.

Yea, many have given up on Gears at this point. I do believe it's largely on the developers with Gears, The Coalition seems to be severely underskilled as a technical dev team, if you just look at their track record of issues, crashes, bugs, the types of bugs, and how long it takes TC to fix them if they fix them at all, you can clearly see they are not even at an average skill level compared to any other developer of an AAA title. It is sad though, that GOW4 was being advertised with GTX 10 series cards and Nvidia had all sorts of promotions going with them, and it's the 10 series cards that are mainly effected. https://www.superbiiz.com/images/landing_page/2473/Nvidia_Game_Bundle_Gears_of_War_P2209.jpg

Gears of war is a classic example of developers playing it dangerous and using undefined behavior to cheat their way around device limits or gain some easy performance (or they just don't know any better)

Darren Hodgson:

In fact, it seems like DX12 just isn't a good match for NVIDIA graphics cards, either due to developer error or because the API itself just isn't all that well coded at the Windows level by Microsoft. Whatever, DX12 has certainly been a massive disappointment really, perhaps more so than the woefully undersupported DX10 (you remember that one, the one that was initially exclusive to Windows 8 or was it Vista?). In my experience, it is usually best to avoid DX12 entirely on the GTX 1080 Ti and use DX11 where available. With that said, Microsoft's own UWP games such as the Forza series seem to run without issue on my system.

Hitman, Rise of the Tomb Raider and Shadow Tomb Raider have all been great for me though. Most benchmarks usually show Kepler losing GPU performance in DX12, but I still get better performance all around because the CPU performance is so much better. And in the case of Tomb Raider, DX12 multi GPU has the best Sli scaling I've experienced. CPU gains tend to be overlooked because most sites only do the tests on the latest CPUs. Even on my GT 610 (Fermi), DX12 was a huge win over DX11 and OpenGL playing Zelda TP on Dolphin, with a Phenom II X4.

Yxskaft:

Hitman, Rise of the Tomb Raider and Shadow Tomb Raider have all been great for me though. Most benchmarks usually show Kepler losing GPU performance in DX12, but I still get better performance all around because the CPU performance is so much better. And in the case of Tomb Raider, DX12 multi GPU has the best Sli scaling I've experienced. CPU gains tend to be overlooked because most sites only do the tests on the latest CPUs. Even on my GT 610 (Fermi), DX12 was a huge win over DX11 and OpenGL playing Zelda TP on Dolphin, with a Phenom II X4.

Consider yourself lucky because I still can't play Rise of the Tomb Raider or even the Shadow of the Tomb Raider demo without crashing.

Darren Hodgson:

I don't understand why NVIDIA do this. Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to release this as the official certified driver a few days later, one with fewer issues, than a buggy one followed by a hotfix only a few days later? I admit that I was quite shocked at how many major release games have issues still with NVIDIA drivers from the release notes. FIFA is now fixed via this hotfix but Gears has been problematic for NVIDIA for years now since Gears of War 4. The Division 2 DX12 issue has also been a problem for a while. In fact, it seems like DX12 just isn't a good match for NVIDIA graphics cards, either due to developer error or because the API itself just isn't all that well coded at the Windows level by Microsoft. Whatever, DX12 has certainly been a massive disappointment really, perhaps more so than the woefully undersupported DX10 (you remember that one, the one that was initially exclusive to Windows 8 or was it Vista?). In my experience, it is usually best to avoid DX12 entirely on the GTX 1080 Ti and use DX11 where available. With that said, Microsoft's own UWP games such as the Forza series seem to run without issue on my system.

I agree completely, I never install Nvidia drivers now, I just wait a few days for the hotfix which then seems to become the "new" driver for at least a month before a big new game release. Its not as if they didn't know that the hotfixes were in the works, these things take time to code, fix, tested, bundle together into an installer, get signed off by higher ups in the company for release, etc, etc. They know what is in the works and probably have multiple driver versions being played with and tested out at any one time. It wouldn't take long for someone on one driver team to ask another driver team "hey what you doing?" and then have just one driver release instead of two so close together. It doesn't look good on the company. Also, on DX12 I think its a budget thing. You see games like BF with DX12 and you can tell their resources were placed elsewhere and their marketing is MUCH bigger than their dev costs. Hence why DX12 is always in beta more or less. On the other hand or any Microsoft exclusive game has the juggernaut that is Microsofts bank account to hand, not to mention people who actually coded DX12 just a phone call/email away. They also more than likely have access to much better dev tools too. Its always the same on consoles, just look at Sony or Microsofts exclusives and you can see their budget and performance is way ahead of anyone else's. As for the Gears games I have not had any issues with Gear 4 or 5 on Nvidia but Gears 1 Ultimate was and still is a joke on PC. Its so broken its not even funny.

jbscotchman:

Consider yourself lucky because I still can't play Rise of the Tomb Raider or even the Shadow of the Tomb Raider demo without crashing.

I think it has more to do with Nvidia changing something in its DX12 driver for the other architectures but not for Kepler.

Yxskaft:

I think it has more to do with Nvidia changing something in its DX12 driver for the other architectures but not for Kepler.

That's the thing, DX12 is a low level API meaning lots of the things handled by the driver in DX11 need to be handled by the application in DX12. In other words it's completely up to the developers' implementation. I guess major reason why DX12 is still as said in "beta" is DX11 backwards compatibility. Low level nature implies, I suppose, that for proper implementation an app needs to be built from the ground up for it (DX12). That would essentially either eliminate or at least make keeping backwards compatibility cost ineffective as you'd probably need basically two separate renderer implementations and even executables. Example is Doom 2016 that has a separate executable for Vulkan and OpenGL (and even so perf gains from Vulkan aren't substantial, as the game needs to be built to work on both, a high level and a low level API).

AsiJu:

That's the thing, DX12 is a low level API meaning lots of the things handled by the driver in DX11 need to be handled by the application in DX12.

Also meaning it is at the mercy of the weakest point of your system build. CPU and Memory tuning specifically. Overclocks that work in dx11 but aren't actually stable (and you can't confirm an overclock is ever 100% stable) are the majority cause of dx12 app crashes.

Astyanax:

Also meaning it is at the mercy of the weakest point of your system build. CPU and Memory tuning specifically. Overclocks that work in dx11 but aren't actually stable (and you can't confirm an overclock is ever 100% stable) are the majority cause of dx12 app crashes.

How can you confirm that a non overclocked system is 100% stable?

FranciscoCL:

How can you confirm that a non overclocked system is 100% stable?

You can't. You can only truly say it's more stable than your overclock was. Even that statement though isn't entirely accurate. I tried both completely stock, and underclocked settings for both dx12 tomb raider games and continued to crash. At some point people need to stop blaming the hardware and acknowledge the drivers/software/developers are actually to blame. The real question is how motivated they are to actually fix it over time.

wasteomind:

You can't. You can only truly say it's more stable than your overclock was. Even that statement though isn't entirely accurate. I tried both completely stock, and underclocked settings for both dx12 tomb raider games and continued to crash. At some point people need to stop blaming the hardware and acknowledge the drivers/software/developers are actually to blame. The real question is how motivated they are to actually fix it over time.

BINGO! running electricity through a rock is never going to be 100%.

wasteomind:

You can't. You can only truly say it's more stable than your overclock was. Even that statement though isn't entirely accurate. I tried both completely stock, and underclocked settings for both dx12 tomb raider games and continued to crash. At some point people need to stop blaming the hardware and acknowledge the drivers/software/developers are actually to blame. The real question is how motivated they are to actually fix it over time.

because hardware always comes from the factory without defects, or isn't damaged in shipping / storage. 🙄

Irenicus:

Too soon? You'd rather wait 5 days? 7? Oh wait, you're being silly. You're the same sort who'd complain if there WASN'T a fix and be screaming "why haven't they fixed this yet!!!!! grrrrrr" Get a grip mate.

You tell me to get a grip and start insulting, even though I did not include a single judging word apart from "again". Did I say it's negative, positive, did I even state anything? No, I did not. I just told the facts. That doesn't change that WHQL drivers currently feel like beta drivers and the hot fixes afterwards are the ones you wanna use.

Run the same tests you run to test overclocked systems, OCCT, 3dmark, unigine etc for a few hours or even just leave a game or game benchmark running that you know for a fact stresses your system.