With my 2700x i've been using windows balanced until now! so now is better to use ryzen balanced?

kilyan:

With my 2700x i've been using windows balanced until now! so now is better to use ryzen balanced?

If you've not had problems with it, keep using it. I think that Ryzen Balanced is targeted more towards the 3000 series (correct me if I'm wrong).

kilyan:

With my 2700x i've been using windows balanced until now! so now is better to use ryzen balanced?

It you are running an update version of Windows 10, then it is needed only for Zen2 arch CPU based. It should not be automatically installed on older versions (Zen and Zen+).

Its not needed at all. Only if you like your cpu to be ultra responsive, as they just change min cpu perf to 99%, thus preventing win to lower clocks on idle. If your gaming, just set min to 15-25% and max to 100, and your good. I usually run power saving profile and keep the performance "locked" to 50% (max, and the cpu staying ar 2.2 ghz) i have yet to see any issues, and im even playing games like that (ace combat 7 and others). But i think they messed up with this driver.. Forgot i had also updated bios. Seems the lower ST clock doesnt stem from the driver, as reverting back didnt change it.

That's not exactly how Ryzen works... 100% is considered the "base" frequency, and 99% is on the "edge" of that frequency, which prevents the low-power C-state from engaging while still keeping power management "on" (100% turns it off completely). Windows does a software evaluation of load every 15 ms when ratio is below 99%, to determine which C-state to send to the CPU. The thing is... Ryzen has hardware evaluation of load, which is done every 1 ms (1000 times per second). So, if the power management is On but Windows doesn't send C-state changes, the CPU instead takes over and changes internal frequency up and down 1000 times per second. This can not even be seen in Windows at all, and all 3rd party monitoring tools which rely on Windows Power API will just see the base frequency unchanged. In reality the CPU can go very low, even under 200 Mhz, and consume very little power, in the order of just a few milliwatts per core ! And it does that for each core individually, while C-states apply to the entire CPU. Only Ryzen Master can read this info, as it communicates directly with the CPU's internal registers instead of relying on Windows Power API (and it calculates an average/max clock/frequency). Don't even bother running some software like CPU-z or Coretemp or HWinfo, it will not show the CPU downclocking below base frequency when running in hardware power management mode. I strongly recommend leaving that one to 99% and not bothering to change it, as you only harm your computer performance and power efficiency for no reason. Let the "hardware accelerated" power management (called SenseMI) do it's thing. https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/sense-mi The same hardware logic inside the CPU does the boost as well, to whatever AGESA microcode is telling it to do. It's literally a mini-computer inside the CPU running it's own internal real time operating system and software (with instructions only AMD knows .. probably some form of RISC). I presume Microsoft is working with AMD to integrate communicating with this thing into the OS itself, but it will probably be a while...

Alessio1989:

It you are running an update version of Windows 10, then it is needed only for Zen2 arch CPU based. It should not be automatically installed on older versions (Zen and Zen+).

wavetrex:

That's not exactly how Ryzen works... 100% is considered the "base" frequency, and 99% is on the "edge" of that frequency, which prevents the low-power C-state from engaging while still keeping power management "on" (100% turns it off completely). Windows does a software evaluation of load every 15 ms when ratio is below 99%, to determine which C-state to send to the CPU. The thing is... Ryzen has hardware evaluation of load, which is done every 1 ms (1000 times per second). So, if the power management is On but Windows doesn't send C-state changes, the CPU instead takes over and changes internal frequency up and down 1000 times per second. This can not even be seen in Windows at all, and all 3rd party monitoring tools which rely on Windows Power API will just see the base frequency unchanged. In reality the CPU can go very low, even under 200 Mhz, and consume very little power, in the order of just a few milliwatts per core ! And it does that for each core individually, while C-states apply to the entire CPU. Only Ryzen Master can read this info, as it communicates directly with the CPU's internal registers instead of relying on Windows Power API (and it calculates an average/max clock/frequency). Don't even bother running some software like CPU-z or Coretemp or HWinfo, it will not show the CPU downclocking below base frequency when running in hardware power management mode. I strongly recommend leaving that one to 99% and not bothering to change it, as you only harm your computer performance and power efficiency for no reason. Let the "hardware accelerated" power management (called SenseMI) do it's thing. https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/sense-mi The same hardware logic inside the CPU does the boost as well, to whatever AGESA microcode is telling it to do. It's literally a mini-computer inside the CPU running it's own internal real time operating system and software (with instructions only AMD knows .. probably some form of RISC). I presume Microsoft is working with AMD to integrate communicating with this thing into the OS itself, but it will probably be a while...

So at the end what is best for you wavetrex ? ryzen balanced or windows balanced? how should i set minimum value?maximum value is 99 and not 100 than? I woul dlike the minimum frequency possible in idle and the max frequency reacheable while gaming.

if you are on 1903 and running on a Ryzen 1xxx or 2xxx then is the same. If you are running a Ryzen 3xxx then the Ryzen palanced power plane.

Alessio1989:

if you are on 1903 and running on a Ryzen 1xxx or 2xxx then is the same. If you are running a Ryzen 3xxx then the Ryzen palanced power plane.

ok i'm on ryzen 2700x and have build 1903, so which plan i choose between ryzen balanced or windows balanced is the same, and that is clarified. But about what wavetrex said: "100% is considered the "base" frequency, and 99% is on the "edge" of that frequency, which prevents the low-power C-state from engaging while still keeping power management "on" (100% turns it off completely). Windows does a software evaluation of load every 15 ms when ratio is below 99%, to determine which C-state to send to the CPU." This i didn't understand, what means in terms of settings, how should i set the values correctly?

You cannot change those values on Windows, they are part of the kernel scheduler internal implementation.

Alessio1989:

You cannot change those values on Windows, they are part of the kernel scheduler internal implementation.

I meant in the power plan the minimum performance and maximum performance of the cpu that i usually set minimum 5 and maximum 100

kilyan:

So at the end what is best for you wavetrex ? ryzen balanced or windows balanced?

Install chipset drivers (which also installs the power profile Ryzen Balanced), set it as default and never go there again. "Windows balanced" was designed for Intel chips, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

@wavetrex great that you know what i need for cpu performance and what will hinder it. last time i checked, you have not much knowledge of what i use my machine for. and no matter what chipset drivers balanced profile i used, never down clocked below 3600 while sitting idle for +1h with almost everything turned off when it comes to software running, even in background, and using 0/100 works as expected, going down to 2.2 ghz and no issue using win even with max limited to 50%. as im using a modified balanced (win, not amd) plan (15/100) and have "identical" results for bench, i know the 99/100 is not needed, and only keeps base clock artificially high to get an ultra responsive win. so far everyone that switched from amd to win profile saw voltage and of course temps dropping, while not reporting any lag or similar issues. im not wasting power and produce more heat, for ZERO noticeable impact on my rig for what i do.

Why AMD Power Management has PCI Express Link State power management Moderate power saving? should it be off or moderate?

@fry178 you understood absolutely nothing about what I posted in relation to the hardware-level (inside CPU) power management. Do whatever you please with your computer, I'm not holding a gun to your head and say: SET THIS VALUE OR ELSE. @X7007 Leave it on Moderate. Off = PCI Express always stays at the current level (PCI-e 3.0 or 4.0 depending on your platform) On = PCI-Express downgrades to PCI-e 2.0 speeds and power consumption or even 1.0 when usage is low (aka, when not transferring much, for example during windows desktop or very light load). It may also reduce the numbers of active lanes in half ( 16-> 8 or 4-> 2) The power effect is minimal and it only has any purpose on mobile computers when even 1 single Watt saved can mean 10-15 minutes more battery time. The performance effect is also non-existent, as you basically only care about faster PCI-e while playing a game (so it switches up to 3.0 or 4.0) when launching the 3D load on the GPU, or when copying large amounts of data to a NVME SSD. The switch itself is also very fast (sub-milisecond), so no performance is lost.

kilyan:

I meant in the power plan the minimum performance and maximum performance of the cpu that i usually set minimum 5 and maximum 100

The minimum power/performance is read at OS boot, setting a lower value will not effect anything (eg: a CPU minimum power performance value is 40, you can set it at 5% or even 0% in the control panel of Windows, but it will not decrease under 40 so any lower values will be ignored). If you want avoid high CPU frequency spikes you can leave the minimum value at 90% like the Ryzen power plane.

Never said that, but please explain how it is better to use 99/100% with clocks between 3.6-4.2, when i can do the same things (idle/low power use like surfing/office/streaming/movies from drive) with a 0/100 (balanced) or even 0/50 (on the power saving profile) with the cpu lowering clocks almost by half (2.2) and lowering voltage because of that, and reducing temps as well, without any noticeable impact on win? Im getting more noticeable delay from my mouse waking up from sleep (logi doesnt allow messing with sleep modes anymore), than i've ever seen any negative from running fixed 2.2 ghz

Alessio1989:

The minimum power/performance is read at OS boot, setting a lower value will not effect anything (eg: a CPU minimum power performance value is 40, you can set it at 5% or even 0% in the control panel of Windows, but it will not decrease under 40 so any lower values will be ignored). If you want avoid high CPU frequency spikes you can leave the minimum value at 90% like the Ryzen power plane.

but if i set minumum to 5 it downclocks to 2200 mhz when idle, if i set that 90, it practically doesn't downclock and stays always 3900, so is not good since i want to powersave when pc is idle

Set it to 0 and your fine. I personally always switch from power saving to balanced for anything more than low load. so (with ps profile) i dont even have it go past 2.2 by setting max cpu to 50 ( up to 60%), balanced is 30/100%, so to not drop to low when i play games..

I'll say it one more time and then quit this topic: What you see in Windows Task Manager or tools like CPU-z, CoreTemp, etc. while the CPU is in idle is NOT the real low clock of Ryzen ! (That includes Ryzen 1000, 2000 and also 3000). The CPU clocks internally much lower than what is visible in all these tools, and is being controlled by the power management hardware inside the CPU itself ! Currently the only program that shows the real core clocks is Ryzen Master, and AMD keeps the inner workings of that tool as closed source, for whatever reason they want... Setting the % of power management to anything lower than 99% only slows down the internal hardware mechanism to the software-level mechanism built into Windows. Quick table: 100% - Downclocking completely disabled, minimum CPU frequency is the base frequency 99% - Hardware level downclocking enabled - CPU evaluates the load 1000 times per second and only gives it as much as needed to complete micro tasks (interrupt requests, audio buffer, network transfer, etc.). These rapid changes are not visible to the OS. 1-98% - Software level downclocking handled by Windows - The Windows Scheduler determines P-state only 60 times per second and sends it to the CPU, which must obey. This is slower to react than the 99% version. You will see the P-State clock in the tools ( from 2200 to whatever the base is ) 0% - Core parking is Enabled, meaning CPU cores will flush their L1/L2 cache and completely stop when idle. Waking up from this takes a long time, which may induce stuttering in games and other real-time applications. It is the WORST possible thing to do on a desktop and is designed only for laptops or other battery-powered devices. TL;DR: When using a Ryzen CPU, DO NOT CHANGE from the 99% value ! It is NOT necessary to touch that.

wavetrex:

I'll say it one more time and then quit this topic: What you see in Windows Task Manager or tools like CPU-z, CoreTemp, etc. while the CPU is in idle is NOT the real low clock of Ryzen ! (That includes Ryzen 1000, 2000 and also 3000). The CPU clocks internally much lower than what is visible in all these tools, and is being controlled by the power management hardware inside the CPU itself ! Currently the only program that shows the real core clocks is Ryzen Master, and AMD keeps the inner workings of that tool as closed source, for whatever reason they want... Setting the % of power management to anything lower than 99% only slows down the internal hardware mechanism to the software-level mechanism built into Windows. Quick table: 100% - Downclocking completely disabled, minimum CPU frequency is the base frequency 99% - Hardware level downclocking enabled - CPU evaluates the load 1000 times per second and only gives it as much as needed to complete micro tasks (interrupt requests, audio buffer, network transfer, etc.). These rapid changes are not visible to the OS. 1-98% - Software level downclocking handled by Windows - The Windows Scheduler determines P-state only 60 times per second and sends it to the CPU, which must obey. This is slower to react than the 99% version. You will see the P-State clock in the tools ( from 2200 to whatever the base is ) 0% - Core parking is Enabled, meaning CPU cores will flush their L1/L2 cache and completely stop when idle. Waking up from this takes a long time, which may induce stuttering in games and other real-time applications. It is the WORST possible thing to do on a desktop and is designed only for laptops or other battery-powered devices. TL;DR: When using a Ryzen CPU, DO NOT CHANGE from the 99% value ! It is NOT necessary to touch that.

Good post, thanks 🙂