cheers for him. intel is pulling all the stops to rescue skylake-x from oblivion. i doubt it will cause even a small ripple as most folks *will not take the risks* of de-lidding, including obvious warranty voiding. furthermore, i doubt Der8auer paid for that cpu. it may be my cynicism, but it also tracks with intel - that they would use a disavowed method to hype the product. Intel read my lips please get rid of the tim. not gonna happen, but a boy can wish.

So I guess it's pretty much confirmed that all the Skylake-X CPUs will use TIM? A real shame, that.

I have mixed feelings on the TIM. I personally don't think we have enough information to draw conclusions. People keep saying soldered is better but I don't really know what it's based on. For overclocking, obviously lowering thermals is nice - but only a small portion of Intel users are overclocking their CPUs. What portion of CPU failures are attributed to thermal cracking? What's the average life span of a CPU on solder vs TIM? Intel ships 100M+ CPU's a quarter. Pudget systems show a .33% failure rate in their OEM systems. If that number is industry wide, it's 300K CPU's failing a quarter - are all of them due to thermal cracking? Probably not but again it's a number we don't know. If Intel is cutting that number by ~100K CPU's a quarter by switching to TIM but also cutting the lifespan from 15 years to 12 years due to thermal increase, does it really matter to most users? I'm not saying those are the numbers - I just don't know how people are drawing conclusions with so many unknown variables. That being said, Intel is a greedy POS company - so if the answer does turn out that they are trying to save a few cents per processor it wouldn't surprise me.

I bet most bought "K" CPU's are paired with a locked motherboard or the user will never overclock it. They buy it because "it's better". Intel can fuck off with this silly attempt at free marketing using overclockers. My mind is on price/performance, and rarely Intel wins here.

A question: is that a cpu 1366 on a 2066 adaptor ??

Denial:

I have mixed feelings on the TIM. I personally don't think we have enough information to draw conclusions. People keep saying soldered is better but I don't really know what it's based on. For overclocking, obviously lowering thermals is nice - but only a small portion of Intel users are overclocking their CPUs. What portion of CPU failures are attributed to thermal cracking? What's the average life span of a CPU on solder vs TIM? Intel ships 100M+ CPU's a quarter. Pudget systems show a .33% failure rate in their OEM systems. If that number is industry wide, it's 300K CPU's failing a quarter - are all of them due to thermal cracking? Probably not but again it's a number we don't know. If Intel is cutting that number by ~100K CPU's a quarter by switching to TIM but also cutting the lifespan from 15 years to 12 years due to thermal increase, does it really matter to most users? I'm not saying those are the numbers - I just don't know how people are drawing conclusions with so many unknown variables. That being said, Intel is a greedy POS company - so if the answer does turn out that they are trying to save a few cents per processor it wouldn't surprise me.

The reason they're shitty is that they betray their own image of quality for their most hardcore audience. They could not use TIM for the enthusiast parts at least, when you know they're overpriced enough anyway and they go to a specific, niche market that you know won't take that kind of shit.

I don't think having TIM inside the heat-spreader would have that much of a negative effect compared to soldering it. The only bad to come from it is 1. TIM does actually dry out over time but that should take a long time if the seal is good. 2. They use a very cheap low quality paste? Who knows what they use? 3. Placing a heat-spreader with glue could lead to bad contact or uneven contact which could in turn cause drying out of TIM pretty quickly. Since these chip are de-lidable we can find out if temps are better or not. Unfortunately i'm not rich enough to carry out these sort of tests but i'd be interested to see temps without the lid and temps from an unaltered sample and then maybe remove Intel TIM and replace with IC Diamond or another top TIM and retest.

I dont care about TIM temperature wise (oc), but if the cheaper competition uses soldering on virtually all cpus, and intel wont do it on cpus going for +500?, right. Besides that, the thermal conduction of TIM isn't as good soldering, no matter what. Again, i dont look at lowest (overall) temps, but i want the fastest heat transfer possible (within reasonable cost), especially when im wasting +300$ on a cpu.

Italia1:

A question: is that a cpu 1366 on a 2066 adaptor ??

This. That seriously looks like a CPU on top of a CPU, wtf? https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21370860_1516142931796386_7771487741351488112_n.jpg?oh=59ce7bf0c5bfd6b2212aacb21971579a&oe=5A2168D0

It kind of looks like it was meant to be on another socket like the 1151 or something and decided nope u have to buy the bigger enthusiast socket to use this beast.

Its^ Skylake-X https://hothardware.com/Image/Thumbnail/?width=696&height=404&imageFile=/ContentImages/NewsItem/41379/content/small_skylake-x-top.jpg

I think the multi layer pcb that they have going there is for future flexibility, If x299 gets a refresh, i'd imagine it will be on 14nm on an even larger die. Though it could be due to the rushed nature of x299, might have opted for a smaller pcb to allow them to use equipment that would other wise need to be more heavily retooled.

I would love it to see if someone would pry the two layers apart and see how many pins are underneath the top layer and see if it lines up with any other sockets

user1:

I think the multi layer pcb that they have going there is for future flexibility, If x299 gets a refresh, i'd imagine it will be on 14nm on an even larger die.

Not sure that makes any sense. The larger portion underneath of it would allow for a larger die, the 14nm wouldn't have anything to do with anything, and the top layer is completely and totally pointless in either case, because to "allow" for a larger die does not mean that a smaller die would require a 2nd, smaller top layer.

Denial:

I have mixed feelings on the TIM. I personally don't think we have enough information to draw conclusions. People keep saying soldered is better but I don't really know what it's based on. For overclocking, obviously lowering thermals is nice - but only a small portion of Intel users are overclocking their CPUs. What portion of CPU failures are attributed to thermal cracking? What's the average life span of a CPU on solder vs TIM? Intel ships 100M+ CPU's a quarter. Pudget systems show a .33% failure rate in their OEM systems. If that number is industry wide, it's 300K CPU's failing a quarter - are all of them due to thermal cracking? Probably not but again it's a number we don't know. If Intel is cutting that number by ~100K CPU's a quarter by switching to TIM but also cutting the lifespan from 15 years to 12 years due to thermal increase, does it really matter to most users? I'm not saying those are the numbers - I just don't know how people are drawing conclusions with so many unknown variables. That being said, Intel is a greedy POS company - so if the answer does turn out that they are trying to save a few cents per processor it wouldn't surprise me.

i do not dispute what you are saying. however, it applies to the mass market, not the HEDT market with unlocked processors that Intel is "shocked, so shocked that overclocking may occur". this is a market that Intel *created*, which usually shows off their latest and greatest before trickling down to the mass market locked processors.

user1:

I think the multi layer pcb that they have going there is for future flexibility, If x299 gets a refresh, i'd imagine it will be on 14nm on an even larger Though it could be due to the rushed nature of x299, might have opted for a smaller pcb to allow them to use equipment that would other wise need to be more heavily retooled.

i think you're right, but in the future they are investing heavily in their r&d for their version of infinity fabric. at the end of the day there's a physical limit to the size (& cost effectiveness) of the die. building up 3d style is a great work around short term. basically by building compute units similar to the "zeppelin" that AMD uses you could have it scaled like they do

that stacked pcb could also just be a bga version for non socketed systems. Or simply a way to bring those cpu on the other sockets later. It would hurt anyway to publish a an enthusiast platform now and then repropose the same cpus on a better chipset or just on a lower end one. That would be really bad. Not sure if that can be just a new way of manifacturing, from my unexpert, out of the businness point of view, an additional layer with additional soldering can just be another point of failure.

So not only intel makes people to delid cpu, they make people to seperate those pcb:s to make it fit the old mobo.

Reddoguk:

I don't think having TIM inside the heat-spreader would have that much of a negative effect compared to soldering it. The only bad to come from it is 1. TIM does actually dry out over time but that should take a long time if the seal is good. 2. They use a very cheap low quality paste? Who knows what they use? 3. Placing a heat-spreader with glue could lead to bad contact or uneven contact which could in turn cause drying out of TIM pretty quickly. Since these chip are de-lidable we can find out if temps are better or not. Unfortunately i'm not rich enough to carry out these sort of tests but i'd be interested to see temps without the lid and temps from an unaltered sample and then maybe remove Intel TIM and replace with IC Diamond or another top TIM and retest.

As someone who delid their i7 7700K and saw INSANE temp drops of around 28C this idea that TIM is ok is a joke. It was like dust taking it off!! Literally some of the cheapest stuff I have ever seen. I used some thermal grizzly liquid metal between the die and IHS, I reglued it with high temp silicon, and then used IC Diamond ontop of the IHS. 28C idle temps are full load at stock clock speeds is insane! This not only allows for less voltages to be used, it keeps the chip healthy and lasting longer. We all know that overclocks can become unstable over time and needing more volts. The fact that AMD is using solder on every single chip with Ryzen, TR, and EPYC, and Intel is using basic TIM on every single chip but selling them at nearly 50% more when they only perform about 15-20% better in single IPC scenarios if you are lucky. Intel, at the moment, is a complete joke, their entire lineup is simply not worth it. At this point in time I can and will not recommend Intel CPU's to anyone, from gamer to production. AMD simply have Intel by the balls, in terms of price, performance, and future proofing. With AM4 being supported until at the very least 2020 and rumours of 10 core CPU's coming to AM4 as well. Intel are in some seriously bad waters. All Intel can hope for now is that AMD don't make strides in the server market, or the OEM market. If they do I can see Intel going the way of IBM and becoming a server only company.

So this is a "Glued together CPU"?

I know this is probably a stupid question, but I'm honestly not sure.... do Intel make cpu's for gamers that do not have the integrated gpu?