No not really. Its a complicated situation, people in Eastern Europe earn 4 times less than what we earn in West-Europe. Valve/Publishers made EU regions to handle this and to account for differences in wages and income but apparently the european commision doesn't give a f*ck and want to screw eastern europe by giving everyone in Europe the same prices. I hope you can see how retarded it is to make someone pay 60 EU when their income per month is around 400 EU.

I think more than 90% of people in Romania pirate games because of this. Our average income is less than 500EUR a month, I cannot fathom how they expect people to pay such prices. 60$ means living pretty comfortably for a week (excluding rent and heat/water etc). That's very similar to the amount my mother used to send me at university per week and I was really doing okay (not cooking very frequently, going out once a couple of days, used to be a smoker too). Our purchasing power is pretty high except when it comes to tech and cars. And games apparently.

This is just a big distraction from the real crime going on, and that's government's insatiable thirst for money through taxation. They take 30-60% of what you make, then nail you again for another 20% when you spend it. Then they file lawsuits like this to shake down profitable companies for more money which ALWAYS results in consumers having to pay higher prices for products.... another Tax essentially. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. The costs of bloated governments on the taxpayer and businesses will continue to rise as more and more creative regulations and fees are imposed. I've been wondering for a while now how much more will people put up with this before they do what Americans did two months ago and tell their government 'enough is enough'.

This is just a big distraction from the real crime going on, and that's government's insatiable thirst for money through taxation. They take 30-60% of what you make, then nail you again for another 20% when you spend it. Then they file lawsuits like this to shake down profitable companies for more money which ALWAYS results in consumers having to pay higher prices for products.... another Tax essentially. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. The costs of bloated governments on the taxpayer and businesses will continue to rise as more and more creative regulations and fees are imposed. I've been wondering for a while now how much more will people put up with this before they do what Americans did two months ago and tell their government 'enough is enough'.

And they voted for increased military spending. I wonder where that money will come from. :infinity:

It's people like you two who destroy systems like this. When steam had flash sales and people didn't like it because they missed them or bought the item early? They got rid of them, and the good sales. Why put your games on a massive sale price instead of a regular sale price for a full two weeks? The entire point was that it was on sale, but had a much better sale for a very, very limited time. So with that gone, poof goes the massive sale price at all. When people didn't like they couldn't refund their games? They gave the option to refund their games, and now there's even less really good sales. I mean, why put my game at 90% off when a bunch of people will return it for no good reason? If that's the case, 50-75% is the way to go. Now you're complaining that you can't take the money you get from selling stuff on the market and put it into your bank account. Guess what will happen if your complaining causes something to happen? Regulations after regulations after regulations will be put on them, more fees, the cost of all items will rise (due to people using it as an income rather then pocket change for new games/items) and you'll likely be charged to put it in your bank account. What you want? Nothing good will come of it just like nothing good has continued to happen when people complain.

I don't care about what other people have complained about. My point is, if I can put money into my steam account, then, I should be able to take that money back out. And if people can't complain, then, you better shut-up the next time a game or driver doesn't work.

And they voted for increased military spending. I wonder where that money will come from. :infinity:

Higher taxes on corporations like the ones in this thread is looking likely, so higher prices for consumers. As for Valve and the credit thing, i need to look into that as on the face of it people have a right to complain. Imagine if everyone paid you in store credit, or ebay only paid you in credit. Complaining can help make things better, only slaves fear complaining. I better not complain about my raw food, they might start serving it raw for everyone with added saliva for seasoning.

I don't care about what other people have complained about. My point is, if I can put money into my steam account, then, I should be able to take that money back out. And if people can't complain, then, you better shut-up the next time a game or driver doesn't work.

I've never complained about what a game or driver doesn't work, because not only have i never installed a driver that has given me problems, but games are rare that they are so badly done that they can't be played, and if they are they usually (but not always) get fixed relatively fast, and i generally wait awhile. And no, you should not be able to get your money back that you put in. Like any gift card for any company ever, you are not able to turn it in for cash. Why you expect this to be different is beyond me.

Higher taxes on corporations like the ones in this thread is looking likely, so higher prices for consumers. As for Valve and the credit thing, i need to look into that as on the face of it people have a right to complain. Imagine if everyone paid you in store credit, or ebay only paid you in credit. Complaining can help make things better, only slaves fear complaining. I better not complain about my raw food, they might start serving it raw for everyone with added saliva for seasoning.

You can not compare steam to ebay or random stores when it comes to credit unless you are the one making games or skins/etc. to sell on workshop. Wanna make a game for steam? Fine, do it, sell it on steam, have the money put in your bank, just like you would on Ebay, amazon, and the like Wanna make a skin for CS:GO or many various games and hope it gets put into the game? Fine, the profits you get for it will be put in your bank account, just like making and selling things on ebay, amazon and the like If you are comparing Steam to ebay or any other store, then you are comparing your ability to sell games on steam, or make skins etc. As there is no comparison when it comes to selling in-game items on any other system. When amazon, ebay, and the like start selling their own in-house digital items that you can only use on their websites and that you can sell between other people on ebay and the like, then you can compare them. Until then, you are comparing apples and zebras. Again, all that comes from complaining because people are greedy, is you getting your way but at a cost. You have already destroyed the sales, what more do you need to destroy before your greed is satisfied?

Aura89, It's people like you who have actually helped kill the PC retail market and made PC games have no resale value. All that just to save a few dollars on digital games that you don't even technically own anymore (a side topic on it's own). Even then, you only seem to be bothered about sales, not full-price (which the promise of digital was supposed to be cheaper games), which further helped these companies to justify selling us the same s*** time after time and exploit users. If it was down to people like you, we wouldn't even be able to refund games at all. You're all too willing to accept Steam's "closed-system", but, you ignore the fact we're dealing with real money here. Let me say that again, REAL MONEY NOT CREDIT. This has nothing to do with whether you make games or create content. No matter how you try and spin it, this is real money we're dealing with. CSGO itself is a great example of why Steam needs investigating. All those skin buying/selling transactions etc costs users real money. When we buy a gun/knife/stickers etc, we're using real money. They're obviously charging us for everything we do. There is definately cash profit being made by them, therefore, they must be taxed since we already are being taxed by them. To not investigate them would be the equivalent of allowing them to do digital money laundering. You also accuse people of being greedy, but, you over-look the company's greed completely. When I put money into my steam account it tells me how much I've got in £. For you in $. It's not in C (credit). It is real cash that is used to pay for games/items with real cash value. Further proof is that I can take my £40 and walk into a shop and buy the same games, except, I would have a boxed-retail-version. If those game shops didn't exist, yeah, your argument could maybe be justified, but, that's not the reality. People are pushing for Steam to allow selling on games they don't want. You know what happens when they allow this? Yep, transaction charges. Your own greed for cheap "on-sale" games doesn't justify anything else related to money regarding Steam. What I've said isn't even related to what Valve are being investigated for (yet), but, I hope changes that favour consumers more than these companies and corporations comes into place.

....Snipped Again, all that comes from complaining because people are greedy, is you getting your way but at a cost. You have already destroyed the sales, what more do you need to destroy before your greed is satisfied?

It sounds like they're concerned about their rights as a consumer, not being greedy. I'd rather lose out on a somewhat better sale than sacrifice my rights so a company can make more money.

Apologies for the lazy response, but on my phone. Yep, Valve are effectively making money from it twice by enforcing credit only. It's very smart, but a better deal could be struck for everyone else. I also think it's wrong to live in fear of complaining because they could make things even worse. True, it's a gamble but you could also make things better. Personally, i think things are better now when it comes to sales etc m

I think more than 90% of people in Romania pirate games because of this. Our average income is less than 500EUR a month, I cannot fathom how they expect people to pay such prices. 60$ means living pretty comfortably for a week (excluding rent and heat/water etc). That's very similar to the amount my mother used to send me at university per week and I was really doing okay (not cooking very frequently, going out once a couple of days, used to be a smoker too). Our purchasing power is pretty high except when it comes to tech and cars. And games apparently.

Its even more wrong to artificially make product cheaper for some people in expense of others.*If you cant afford a game (or iPhone or what*ever) then you cant. Its just*about these companies maximizing profits*through silly IP legislation, which grant them*being able to pull a price from hat for a product which have distribution value*of 0. Well not anymore in*EU and that's*good. If*they want people in poor countries as customers they need to price the products accordingly for*everyone - or live without that customer base. Their choice. But anyway I would*call this*quite fair.

Its even more wrong to artificially make product cheaper for some people in expense of others.*If you cant afford a game (or iPhone or what*ever) then you cant. Its just*about these companies maximizing profits*through silly IP legislation, which grant them*being able to pull a price from hat for a product which have distribution value*of 0. Well not anymore in*EU and that's*good. If*they want people in poor countries as customers they need to price the products accordingly for*everyone - or live without that customer base. Their choice. But anyway I would*call this*quite fair.

You cannot possibly name a single price that is ok for everyone, all the way from Sweden (over 3kEUR/month minimum wage) down to Afghanistan (67 EUR/month minimum wage). It's not a matter of pricing, you simply can't. 20EUR per game would be okay for Romania, cheap as fck for the US and ridiculously expensive for Afghanistan. You simply need pricing tiers to accommodate for this if you really want to sell your product. The same thing is happening with cars and tech. Do you know how many people make a living off buying second-hand cars in Germany and then selling them in Romania? People just rarely buy new cars here. A decently-equipped Focus sets you back like 20k EUR here. You crazy? With that money I get a credit and clear 1/3rd of an apartment where I live. 40k EUR left, which translates into a comfortable 140EUR/month. Had the car prices been better, people would really buy new cars here. They don't even need to lower them that much. If you have a company and you can shove the taxes over from a car, it's actually worth it. And our taxes are 20% or something. It's the exact same thing with games. Publishers were moaning that game piracy was out of control during the recession. No fcking sh!t you @ssholes, people couldn't afford them because of your pricing. Given the average quality of games nowadays is lower (read: sh!t) compared to 10-15 years ago, game prices could AT LEAST be adjusted for the different areas. I don't see anything wrong with this.