AMD Zen chipset issue To Increase Mobo Cost

Crazy Serb

2016-06-22 16:47

Price difference between cheapest skylake/haswell boards is 15 euros and the only difference between them is USB 3.0 and 3.1. So people already pay extra for 3.1 If this is HSA issue, they can simply allow 3.0 only to keep prices lower for these cheapest boards, and they would sell better then these pricier with 3.1 for sure because people who buys that kind of boards dont have 100+ euros fdd/ssd to make real use of it

#5293516

Lane

2016-06-22 16:53

I would assume the Northbridge functions are on the CPU die now for Zen, but it looks like a sad state when AMD outsources the Southbridge to ASMedia. I wonder where the problem is. ASMedia blaming AMD? ASMedia screwing up and blaming AMD? AMD screwing up? $5 in parts = $10 to $20 MSRP increase.

Well the response of Asmedia seems pretty clear, but no idea if this true:

while ASMedia clarified that this is purely a market rumor and its product's signal, stability and compatibility have all passed certification.

AMD Zen chipset designs have already been finalized and will begin shipments at the end of the third quarter and start mass production in the fourth.

#5293517

Lane

2016-06-22 16:57

You shouldn't listen to anything negative about Zen until after Zen ships. (Of course.) AsMedia is not AMD--it's an add-on chip made by a third party. MSI used it for awhile in some AMD motherboards for USB 3.x support--and I noticed that MSI switched to VIA for that support in more recent AMD boards. But that's because AMD's current core logic doesn't support things like USB3.x and PCIe 3.0. (Yes, it's been *that Long* since AMD has released new core logic!) I expect that AMD's own AM4 chipset will support all of that functionality directly, and only employ third-party chips for additional USB capacity, etc. At any rate, this is an ASMedia problem, if a problem at all, having nothing to do with Zen and the AM4 core-logic chipset support.

Even my LGA2011 Asus and my previous Gigabyte are using ASMedia USB 3.0 ( 0,96 extensible ) .. )-Asus X79-C600 Intel chispet.. Most additional USB 3.0 and 3.1 are provided by Asmedia .

#5293520

Sukovsky

2016-06-22 17:12

Wow. This contributes absolutely nothing to any discussion.

#5293521

PrMinisterGR

2016-06-22 17:17

That doesn't even sound like a chipset issue. It sounds like ASMedia will have the USB 3.1 part and that they might (or according to them, they might not) have signaling problems that are correctable.

#5293553

Loophole35

2016-06-22 18:22

wich mean in marketing "don't worry it's not expensive 10 to 15$... oups i mean 2 to 5$"... it has always been like that, why should it be different with this? (have you seen Fury or GTX 10** at the price estimated in shop (exept summer sales etc of course)?

Actually I live in America and we don't get bent over by VAT. We have newegg selling a EVGA ACX3.0 for $619.99 and EVGA lists a lower model at $609. This issue is likely costing manufacturers ¢20 and the are going to charge consumers $2-5.

#5293563

KFBR392

2016-06-22 18:50

This is how amd gets bad reputed without any cause. It is a common problem with long circuitry for high speed data transfers. Alot z170 so are also affected I think. But it isn't highlighted ever like this when it comes to Intel. Whatever it AMD? Well it is their fault.. Right?? Can you please give some information. Is there any proof that ES samples of xeon e5 2xxx can be with unlocked multiplier? Off topic though...

Why does this make so much sense? :massacre:

#5293574

Fox2232

2016-06-22 19:04

Price difference between cheapest skylake/haswell boards is 15 euros and the only difference between them is USB 3.0 and 3.1. So people already pay extra for 3.1 If this is HSA issue, they can simply allow 3.0 only to keep prices lower for these cheapest boards, and they would sell better then these pricier with 3.1 for sure because people who buys that kind of boards dont have 100+ euros fdd/ssd to make real use of it

HSA is currently only for APUs.

#5293577

realmadrid

2016-06-22 19:18

delete

#5293597

sammarbella

2016-06-22 20:03

That doesn't even sound like a chipset issue. It sounds like ASMedia will have the USB 3.1 part and that they might (or according to them, they might not) have signaling problems that are correctable.

Well from what i read in HH article it's in fact a Zen chipset design limitation issue...:

Because of the Zen chipsets' design limitations, USB 3.1 transmission speeds drop dramatically as circuit distance increases, forcing PC and motherboard players to add additional retimer and redriver chips or even an independent USB 3.1 IC in order for the function to work properly. This has thus increase the makers' costs.

Sometimes the little details are important, not a good start for Zen.

#5293617

Aardwolfe

2016-06-22 20:31

Sh#t, now i can't afford it :'(

#5293641

xrodney

2016-06-22 21:24

I take CPU+MB+RAM as composite block delivering CPU performance and features. $2~5 increase on this entire part is not that much even for entry level parts. But they should ensure that there is no need for more overrides like this. Because $20 on entry level system will be already noticeable and people may go for alternatives. And on top of that, there will be millions of boards made... I hope they are not dumb and make all problems requiring extra overrides go away with next iteration/revision of chipset.

I dont think 8Core CPU can be counted as entry level, plus who would miss fast USB 3.1 on entry level system.

#5293681

Fox2232

2016-06-22 22:26

I dont think 8Core CPU can be counted as entry level, plus who would miss fast USB 3.1 on entry level system.

You know, there are going to be APUs in very same socket. Just saying. And I guess that there will be low clocked, low power and cheap 8-core Zen too.

#5293695

nz3777

2016-06-22 23:02

I think if (zen) is a failure which I hope it is not Amd schould just stop making traditional cpu's and stick with the Apu's -They do so much better in that arena, Intel is just way to strong at the moment and they cannot catch-up iam sorry to say. What id like to see-Apu with 8 cpu cores and 4 gpu cores (12) core if you will with 1,000 stream prossesors with support for DDR4 priced around $150-$175 Then they will have one hell of a cruiserweight contendor for the crown.

#5293716

LimitbreakOr

2016-06-23 00:22

I think if (zen) is a failure which I hope it is not Amd schould just stop making traditional cpu's and stick with the Apu's -They do so much better in that arena, Intel is just way to strong at the moment and they cannot catch-up iam sorry to say. What id like to see-Apu with 8 cpu cores and 4 gpu cores (12) core if you will with 1,000 stream prossesors with support for DDR4 priced around $150-$175 Then they will have one hell of a cruiserweight contendor for the crown.

The thing is, if zen is a failure, it will be a failure for the apu first and for most. The bulldozer arch was weak to begin with and even with the steamroller and excavator updates they have been falling further and further back. So even if they give up on "traditional" cpu's, their apu will also fail. No one is under the delusion that amd is going to beat intel as intel is actually holding back. If you look at their skylake die layout, you'll notice that merely 2/5 of the actual processor is dedicated to the cpu cores. If intel wanted to, they can make a 10 core i5 for their next gen and sell it for 250$ and still make a great profit. Though this would destroy their whole marketing strategy and even kill their server cpu's. We don't need amd to beat intel, we need amd to bring us a cpu that's anywhere close to intel in therms of performance so to bring them back in the game.

#5293726

-Tj-

2016-06-23 01:38

Well from what i read in HH article it's in fact a Zen chipset design limitation issue...: Sometimes the little details are important, not a good start for Zen.

I don't see much fuzz.. I mean look at Haswell and Z87 chipset by rls, C1 had a errata with USB, fixed by C2, but that didn't stop makers selling Z87 rev.C1 with 200€/$+ price tags. Mine was C1 because I bought the whole set by rls, but I got a FW update later so all is good, didn't mind this issue much since had no USB3 devices back then, even now just 2 USB3.0 keys and it works fine. 🤓

#5293817

Aura89

2016-06-23 08:47

God damn it I keep hearing bad things about Zen and its platform.

You do? such as?

#5293823

Athlonite

2016-06-23 09:11

If it turns out it's an Asmedia chip problem then shouldn't Asmedia pay the price of cocking **** up

#5294115

Warrax

2016-06-23 22:02

What id like to see-Apu with 8 cpu cores and 4 gpu cores (12) core if you will with 1,000 stream prossesors with support for DDR4 priced around $150-$175 Then they will have one hell of a cruiserweight contendor for the crown.

Keep dreaming because if Zen is competitive, prices will be much higher than that, specially 8 cores APUs

#5294116

BLEH!

2016-06-23 22:03

This isn't as serious as the P67 chipset issue intel had. That was basically a complete recall, or the debacle with X79 and the SAS ports not working...