Nice, but I wish they would say when in 2023 the Zen 4 CPU with the higher levels of 3D cache are coming.

Yeah... I doubt anything will be available before 2023 actually. And that's very disappointing.

fantaskarsef:

Yeah... I doubt anything will be available before 2023 actually. And that's very disappointing.

I don´t mind that, gives me time to save for it. My concern is the cost of the CPU, MB and Ram, i hope by they are reasonable because i can´t justify paying around 1000€ just for those three parts...

H83:

I don´t mind that, gives me time to save for it. My concern is the cost of the CPU, MB and Ram, i hope by they are reasonable because i can´t justify paying around 1000€ just for those three parts...

DDR5 prices will come down and hopefuly zen4 8core part wont be more than 400$. Pairing it with B650 board wont so costly. I guess we'll see...

Pretty bold step moving to using current gen CPU and GPU architectures with Phoenix. This should really take it to Intel in laptops.

H83:

I don´t mind that, gives me time to save for it. My concern is the cost of the CPU, MB and Ram, i hope by they are reasonable because i can´t justify paying around 1000€ just for those three parts...

It probably will depend on the tier of motherboard and CPU you choose, picking cheap parts you won't be charged as much (i guess) but picking top parts you will spend that only on motherboard and ram

Maddness:

Nice, but I wish they would say when in 2023 the Zen 4 CPU with the higher levels of 3D cache are coming.

Should go without saying that 3D cache will be used per standard in all their CPU's from now on, and not in special models on the side. That was only necessary with Zen 3, because the tech wasn't ready for implementation before the middle of its lifespan.

Maddness:

Nice, but I wish they would say when in 2023 the Zen 4 CPU with the higher levels of 3D cache are coming.

it will be late in the launch, probably January/February. 5800X3D is a massive hit, but production has already begun on the Genoa 3D, so there's no "room at the inn". i'm very glad AMD decided to do a broad and deep release of 5800X3D, which i didn't expect but it makes so much sense. it really makes the AMD customer glad their old rig can now B-Slap a brand new Intel. the Raphael3D is the ace in the pocket of AMD for the launch of Meteor Lake, just as 5800x3D is for Alder lake.

Pale:

Should go without saying that 3D cache will be used per standard in all their CPU's from now on, and not in special models on the side. That was only necessary with Zen 3, because the tech wasn't ready for implementation before the middle of its lifespan.

it does not go without saying. 3D cache is a manufacturing nightmare (for anyone else but TSMC). there is only one fab in the world capable of producing it. yes, it will be replicated by other fabs. let me share a point of knowledge with you - the cpu and 3d cache have a wireless connection. and i do not mean any kind of radio wave based connection because there isn't one. the Cpu and Cache are polished within an Angstrom of each other, and then rely on physics to make the mirrored connection. No solder, No wires, No wifi so no, the 3d cache models are a specialty item for (at least a few) years to come.

Pale:

Should go without saying that 3D cache will be used per standard in all their CPU's from now on, and not in special models on the side. That was only necessary with Zen 3, because the tech wasn't ready for implementation before the middle of its lifespan.

If they can create product segmentation, they will. Because this is an easy one too, its not tied to the die itself, its done as a separate step, so its easy to make two products.

H83:

I don´t mind that, gives me time to save for it. My concern is the cost of the CPU, MB and Ram, i hope by they are reasonable because i can´t justify paying around 1000€ just for those three parts...

high risk to be disappointed then 1) the insanity of everything electronic especially cars and bicycles.means the electronic so called "shortage" which it's not will last forever, if you live in a bicycle heavy area like I am you see that e-MTBikes have invaded the market it's almost the only thing people buy or that you can buy as regular bikes are "out of stock" and as also a hiker I can tell you invasion is not an exageration they are everywhere...like locusts and that's a completely new market that didn't exist years ago, it's not going away so their "portion" of semi-conductors is lost for computer hardware 2) ddr5 is if you ask me still in "beta" state, unreliable lots of problems so clearly not like ddr4 or ddr3 well known and mastered, it's also more complex and has more chips on it it will never be ddr4 prices 3) pcie5 design despite being slightly paid for idiots like me who went Intel, still is a "new tech" that hasn't been "reimbursed" so motherboards won't be cheap (good ones I mean..not ones that have less features than a 10y older chipset)

Pale:

Should go without saying that 3D cache will be used per standard in all their CPU's from now on, and not in special models on the side. That was only necessary with Zen 3, because the tech wasn't ready for implementation before the middle of its lifespan.

3D cache helps keeping jobs away from slow memory, the jump to faster DDR5 5200 memory reduces the penalty of hitting the memory instead of cache, so the cache may not be worth it compared to a bit higher clocks, better cooling and lower price on the non 3D chips.

TLD LARS:

3D cache helps keeping jobs away from slow memory, the jump to faster DDR5 5200 memory reduces the penalty of hitting the memory instead of cache, so the cache may not be worth it compared to a bit higher clocks, better cooling and lower price on the non 3D chips.

DDR5 is faster in terms of bandwidth, latency is about the same or slightly worse isn't it ? Random accesses will be no better off on DDR5, this is what the cache helps massively with. When you're processing large chunks of data, the memory is prefetched ahead of the CPU using it, so size of cache doesn't really help there. Bandwidth helps in those situations.

TLD LARS:

3D cache helps keeping jobs away from slow memory, the jump to faster DDR5 5200 memory reduces the penalty of hitting the memory instead of cache, so the cache may not be worth it compared to a bit higher clocks, better cooling and lower price on the non 3D chips.

The issue with missing the CPU's cache is not so much to do with bandwidth, but to do latency. If a fetch hits the L3 cache, it has to deal with a latency of around 10-15ns. But if it hits the memory, it will have a latency of 60-80ns, depending on the memory. DDR5 cycle rates are similar to DDR4. Slightly higher, but not much. So DDR5 won't help when there is a cache miss.

The PR team needs language lessons, it's pinnacle and not pinnicle.....

Richard Nutman:

DDR5 is faster in terms of bandwidth, latency is about the same or slightly worse isn't it ? Random accesses will be no better off on DDR5, this is what the cache helps massively with. When you're processing large chunks of data, the memory is prefetched ahead of the CPU using it, so size of cache doesn't really help there. Bandwidth helps in those situations.

Horus-Anhur:

The issue with missing the CPU's cache is not so much to do with bandwidth, but to do latency. If a fetch hits the L3 cache, it has to deal with a latency of around 10-15ns. But if it hits the memory, it will have a latency of 60-80ns, depending on the memory. DDR5 cycle rates are similar to DDR4. Slightly higher, but not much. So DDR5 won't help when there is a cache miss.

Sorry for not being 100% clear. The statement was that all CPUes should have 3D cache from now on. There are Workloads that benefit from DDR5 even though the latency is higher (Render, compression and a few games), so that performance boost might eat into the cache boost benefit. The price difference between 5800x and 5800 3D is 120 € where I live. There are workloads that do not benefit from 3D cache on the 5800x, this will probably not change much for the 6000-7000 series, so in some cases the money is better spend on 2-4 cores extra, instead of paying the same money for 3D cache. It may also not be possible to use 3D cache on CPUes with 105W TDP or higher, unless they change from 2 to 4 chiplets on normal desktop, to spread the heat out.