AMD Ryzen 9 3950X beats Intel i9-10980XE in 3DMark Firestrike by almost 25%

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#5722638
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/133/133128.jpg
Intel was mocking with customers and enjoying the throne for far too long ... the prices were accordingly ... now things have changed and they are SO LOST but they still have the market share that will fall in the next years if they dont come with something truly magic ! How many sockets did the make ? how many times they made customers buy new motherboards ? I think there are maybe 10-15 sockets for basically the same CPUs ... they were so greedy even the chipsests had to be sold in imense amounts .... The performance increase was at least mediocre between the many "generations" they had and it was so easy and comfy to count the money coming in with absolutely nothing new. Take an I7 970 from 15 years ago compare it to an i7 from 5 years ago ... the difference ... marginal. All those core i5 with no hyperthreading all those K and Extreme processors that costed like a small town car ... it will all go to dust and I will be dancing in that dust in 5 years with my shiny new 64 core processor made by AMD.
#5722645
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bernek:

How many sockets did the make ? how many times they made customers buy new motherboards ? I think there are maybe 10-15 sockets for basically the same CPUs ... they were so greedy even the chipsests had to be sold in imense amounts ....
That argument is really getting old. I get it, there is enthusiasts here that might upgrade a CPU and keep using an old mainboard. But in the real world, the majority of Intels sales do not go to such people. Intel doesnt really care if they sell Chipset 1 or Chipset 2, because business and OEM will largely never upgrade CPUs only - and thats where the real money is for Intel. Even the majority of self-build systems will not upgrade frequent enough to ever make use of this. Making new chipsets was largely just "easier", they had all the freedom to design the CPUs how they wanted to, and they just didn't care, because the market segment that might care about reusable boards is an extremely tiny fraction. Its even funnier that you post in here, because the 10000 HEDT series is actually the 3rd line of CPUs that runs on the X299 platform.
#5722646
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bernek:

Intel was mocking with customers and enjoying the throne for far too long ... the prices were accordingly ... now things have changed and they are SO LOST but they still have the market share that will fall in the next years if they dont come with something truly magic ! How many sockets did the make ? how many times they made customers buy new motherboards ? I think there are maybe 10-15 sockets for basically the same CPUs ... they were so greedy even the chipsests had to be sold in imense amounts .... The performance increase was at least mediocre between the many "generations" they had and it was so easy and comfy to count the money coming in with absolutely nothing new. Take an I7 970 from 15 years ago compare it to an i7 from 5 years ago ... the difference ... marginal. All those core i5 with no hyperthreading all those K and Extreme processors that costed like a small town car ... it will all go to dust and I will be dancing in that dust in 5 years with my shiny new 64 core processor made by AMD.
What the hell are you talking about "marginal" Lol are you joking, get your fanboi cancer outta here mate. What you wrote is complete BS.
#5722651
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kanenas:

ergo compared is the CPU tied Physics score.
And yet the title says it's 25% faster.... This is a false and misleading piece.
#5722656
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bernek:

Intel was mocking with customers and enjoying the throne for far too long ... the prices were accordingly ... now things have changed and they are SO LOST but they still have the market share that will fall in the next years if they dont come with something truly magic ! How many sockets did the make ? how many times they made customers buy new motherboards ? I think there are maybe 10-15 sockets for basically the same CPUs ... they were so greedy even the chipsests had to be sold in imense amounts .... The performance increase was at least mediocre between the many "generations" they had and it was so easy and comfy to count the money coming in with absolutely nothing new. Take an I7 970 from 15 years ago compare it to an i7 from 5 years ago ... the difference ... marginal. All those core i5 with no hyperthreading all those K and Extreme processors that costed like a small town car ... it will all go to dust and I will be dancing in that dust in 5 years with my shiny new 64 core processor made by AMD.
Noob3d.com https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_10_2019/post-42975-0-98969900-1571668483.png
#5722669
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Silva:

If you study economics you'll learn a company's sole objective is profit. You'll learn also that any company will try to have some kind of advantage and will use it to crush/buy any rivals in pursuit of monopoly. By that time, they can charge anything they want as long their production is sold. So, in recap, no questions raised anywhere, as AMD would/will do the same given the opportunity. Competition and choice is healthy for the market, monopoly is not.
Agree. We can't blame Intel for trying to make money as that is the sole purpose of corporations. If you look at Intel's earnings they are still making record profits year on year so they are following there C corp mandate. I do disagree with corporations as a whole as maximizing shareholder profits really should be 3rd or 4th on the priorities list for any company that plans to be around for the long haul. Take Intel for example there short term maximizing of profits is going to cost them long term market share. If we look out 50 years I bet this myopic view costs Intel trillions. My hope is AMD doesn't let up and gets a sizable share of the server market and they very well should since there SMT is significantly better than Intel's hyperthreading. The closer to 50/50 market share the better it is for the consumer albeit the worse it is for Intel. To be fair I do hope Intel gets a decent piece of the dedicated GPU market as it really needs a third player to help stop all the proprietary nonsense Nvidia pulls off. So in short competition is good for the consumer and bad for the pseudo monopolies.
#5722674
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/247/247876.jpg
Ain`t that obvious - AMD optimized that CPU for that benchmark. 😎
#5722677
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/242/242134.jpg
@Margalus Doesnt say WHERE it is 25% faster. And anyone that actually cares to read the article, would know that its the phy score..
#5722681
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bernek:

Take an I7 970 from 15 years ago...
I think the i7 970 is 9 years old and some months.
#5722687
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/220/220214.jpg
wavetrex:

Fire Strike tops out at 16 threads. It's an old bench by now from when quad cores were still king... That 9.4% is only from clock speeds/better binning of the CCDs, 3950X able to sustain clocks better than 3900X, and probably the fact that the 16 threads get allocated to 16 real cores instead of 12 and leftovers... Let's see Time Spy Extreme... the CPU bench in that one goes up to 256 threads, so it will be a while until it's maxed out.
I didn't know those facts. I have a Time Spy Extreme done.... not sure if that guy did one to compare.
#5722693
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/133/133128.jpg
Angushades:

What the hell are you talking about "marginal" Lol are you joking, get your fanboi cancer outta here mate. What you wrote is complete BS.
i7 3770 vs i7 4770 - diference is 5% they difference between generations 15% at best ... they have some leaps but everytime a new CPU is launched they popup a new socket and that is pure marketing BS and like someone said they are only interested in profit. A company driven closer to the enduser will have success in the long run. Ok if the diference is performance is 25-35% the ok new socket but it wasnt the case all the time.... And please dont just trow dirt at me dont call me a fanboy because I only buy what is the best perf/price ratio. P.S. if you call me a fanboy what does that make you ? the guardian of Intel ? Competition is good but some just fail to see that and think what they have is the absolute best...
#5722694
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/156/156348.jpg
nevcairiel:

That argument is really getting old. I get it, there is enthusiasts here that might upgrade a CPU and keep using an old mainboard. But in the real world, the majority of Intels sales do not go to such people. Intel doesnt really care if they sell Chipset 1 or Chipset 2, because business and OEM will largely never upgrade CPUs only - and thats where the real money is for Intel. Even the majority of self-build systems will not upgrade frequent enough to ever make use of this. Making new chipsets was largely just "easier", they had all the freedom to design the CPUs how they wanted to, and they just didn't care, because the market segment that might care about reusable boards is an extremely tiny fraction. Its even funnier that you post in here, because the 10000 HEDT series is actually the 3rd line of CPUs that runs on the X299 platform.
The name of this site is guru3D not guruOEM or guruBusiness or guruIntelInside or guruIBMCompatible. Lot of people here upgrade every 3-4 years or so. If you can upgrade the CPU after 3-4 years without upgrading the mb then it's a plus for a lot of people since most of the time after 3-4 years there's no new mb features that you really need and the mb is still perfectly good to use. So be ready to hear this argument again. Personally it was part of my decision to go with Ryzen. I like the fact i'll be able to buy a 3700 or 3800 when they will be on sale 2 years from now without having to change the mb and ram.
#5722714
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/66/66148.jpg
nevcairiel:

That argument is really getting old. I get it, there is enthusiasts here that might upgrade a CPU and keep using an old mainboard. But in the real world, the majority of Intels sales do not go to such people. Intel doesnt really care if they sell Chipset 1 or Chipset 2, because business and OEM will largely never upgrade CPUs only - and thats where the real money is for Intel. Even the majority of self-build systems will not upgrade frequent enough to ever make use of this. Making new chipsets was largely just "easier", they had all the freedom to design the CPUs how they wanted to, and they just didn't care, because the market segment that might care about reusable boards is an extremely tiny fraction. Its even funnier that you post in here, because the 10000 HEDT series is actually the 3rd line of CPUs that runs on the X299 platform.
Indeed it is the 3rd CPU on the X299 platform, mostly because it's still the 7980XE and they are managing to convince people to pay more for the same CPU again. Not sure how that's a pro customer position but hey. Most people have already pointed out that the numbers for both CPU's are bunk so meh. The 3950X will gain more with faster memory and tuned timings. The 10980XE will gain more when it uses boost. I'd be willing to bet it wasn't running boost or running very low boost settings for that run.
#5722719
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I find the 3dmark physics score frustratingly useless, since it seems no devs ever build a game/engine with CPU physics at the level that scales with threads. Its an endless tease of a theoretical possibility we seemingly never get to see in a practical application. At least cinebench mirrors an actual applications workload and is similar to other actual applications.
#5722728
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MonstroMart:

The name of this site is guru3D not guruOEM or guruBusiness or guruIntelInside or guruIBMCompatible. Lot of people here upgrade every 3-4 years or so. If you can upgrade the CPU after 3-4 years without upgrading the mb then it's a plus for a lot of people since most of the time after 3-4 years there's no new mb features that you really need and the mb is still perfectly good to use. So be ready to hear this argument again. Personally it was part of my decision to go with Ryzen. I like the fact i'll be able to buy a 3700 or 3800 when they will be on sale 2 years from now without having to change the mb and ram.
The point of the argument is that people around here always use that to somehow prove that Intel is just greedy (hint: all companies are at their core, thats just capitalism), but ultimately the number of additional mainboards they sell to guru3d upgraders is miniscule and thats not really a reason for them, since the majority of sales of chipsets will happen anyway, no matter if its 270, 370, or 470. You can choose or not choose to make that an argument for yourself. Personally, I don't, because I just recycle the entire CPU/MB/Memory set and either use it myself in a secondary system, give it to family, or sell it to friends (which I incidentally just did last weekend again with one old set). But regardless Intel does not do it just so you are forced to buy a motherboard, they just do it because its easier for them not to worry about compat.
#5722732
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/156/156348.jpg
nevcairiel:

The point of the argument is that people around here always use that to somehow prove that Intel is just greedy (hint: all companies are at their core, thats just capitalism), but ultimately the number of additional mainboards they sell to guru3d upgraders is miniscule and thats not really a reason for them, since the majority of sales of chipsets will happen anyway, no matter if its 270, 370, or 470. You can choose or not choose to make that an argument for yourself. Personally, I don't, because I just recycle the entire CPU/MB/Memory set and either use it myself in a secondary system, give it to family, or sell it to friends (which I incidentally just did last weekend again with one old set). But regardless Intel does not do it just so you are forced to buy a motherboard, they just do it because its easier for them not to worry about compat.
I can't speak for others but i don't think it makes Intel greedy. The point of all business is not make money. AMD is no different. But i do think Intel over the years became over confident and took their fans for granted. Lack of competition definitely influenced some of their decisions (potentially : high price, no HT on core i5, staying on 4 cores for so long, new socket about every new generation, ...). You can't really blame people for hating that and wanting to send a message with their pocket. AMD would do the same as Intel in the same position. But they are not in the same position ... Competition is good. It drives companies to improve. Without it it's all about making more money..
#5722760
https://forums.guru3d.com/data/avatars/m/242/242134.jpg
@blkspade except it allows to compare systems by hardware and able to not have variations just because the scene (game) changed a bit. might not mirror real world use, but is nice if i want an idea of the difference in perf i will get between different chips/arcs etc. @nevcairiel i tend to call companies greedy when they add features like HT to i3 (i5?) without any redesign, meaning they had the capability already, but were not giving it to customers all this time, until amd started doing it.

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