To be fair, it is just simply a random number. Most other games that use random numbers (which is presumably most games in general) don't seem to have this problem, because they're fine with using the software-based seed.
But... I still don't think Bungie is really obligated to make a patch because of AMD's mistake, especially since AMD already said they were working on it. It'd have been nice for Bungie to just release a patch anyway, but I don't fault them for not bothering.
I'm extremely curious how the chipset driver managed it, i'd hope it was temporary and a bios change was still coming because of it requiring SVM disabled.
I'm extremely curious how the chipset driver managed it, i'd hope it was temporary and a bios change was still coming because of it requiring SVM disabled.
The chipset driver is probably a catch-all term for "everything revolving around the Zen platform". I wouldn't be surprised if the driver update was just a temporary fix that maps rdrand calls to urandom or whatever. Not the most ideal or secure method, but, better than having nothing at all (or errors). If that's true, hopefully they'll get a more permanent fix.
have you seen the game code and how much relies on that instruction?
While ofc I don't have their code I'm a systems engineer (with a masters degree and phd student if that actually matters 😛) working on RA/AI and a hobbyist game dev so I'd bet 1 month of wages it's a 10 min fix. (Unless it's on some sort of drm shit :S)
While ofc I don't have their code I'm a systems engineer (with a masters degree and phd student if that actually matters 😛) working on RA/AI and a hobbyist game dev so I'd bet 1 month of wages it's a 10 min fix. (Unless it's on some sort of drm crap :S)
i'd actually believe its part of their anti-hack code.
But... I still don't think Bungie is really obligated to make a patch because of AMD's mistake, especially since AMD already said they were working on it. It'd have been nice for Bungie to just release a patch anyway, but I don't fault them for not bothering.
Not saying that AMD shouldn't patch it via software or bios updates or both, but honestly, updating the AMD software is something a lot of people don't do, and even less update firmware.
The correct way to go about it, in my opinion, is for bungie to update their game, and AMD provide the updates they are providing. This eliminates the issue on both fronts, and the consumers benefit. Typically i don't go around looking for chipset driver updates because a game is not working....
Not saying that AMD shouldn't patch it via software or bios updates or both, but honestly, updating the AMD software is something a lot of people don't do, and even less update firmware.
The correct way to go about it, in my opinion, is for bungie to update their game, and AMD provide the updates they are providing. This eliminates the issue on both fronts, and the consumers benefit. Typically i don't go around looking for chipset driver updates because a game is not working....
Well, here's the crux of the matter:
Destiny 2 was just one example. systemd in Linux was a much bigger problem, but also still arguably niche. The problem is hardware-specific, so, it is unfortunately entirely up to AMD to fix this, because the problem will come back for other programs that may use rdrand. It's just coincidence that so far, only 2 programs have been identified. There could be more.
Well, here's the crux of the matter:
Destiny 2 was just one example. systemd in Linux was a much bigger problem, but also still arguably niche. The problem is hardware-specific, so, it is unfortunately entirely up to AMD to fix this, because the problem will come back for other programs that may use rdrand. It's just coincidence that so far, only 2 programs have been identified. There could be more.
And that's kind of my point though. What will fix it for the majority without people even knowing? Bungie applying a fix to to the game, and whatever needs to be changed in linux.
Again i'm not saying that AMD shouldn't provide a fix, i'm just saying that they aren't the only ones who should as it's unreasonable to expect everyone with a Zen 2 processor to update their bios or chipset drivers. You HAVE to update destiny 2 to play it, so if bungie provides a fix, in that one scenario, not a single person will be affected from then on. Maybe i feel that if i was a developer/publisher that i'd want to make certain people can buy and play my games more then bungie if they don't provide a fix, but if they don't, that really doesn't look good for them.
One other possible solution i guess would be if AMD provides microsoft with the latest chipset driver as a recommended automatic update through windows update.....but that still means people have to make sure their system is up to date and are not blocking windows updates, whereas, again, Destiny 2 HAS to be updated, to play.
It's still by no means a fix for all situations, a bios update realistically is the only way to do that.
But put simply, it doesn't hurt to provide the fix on multiple fronts, and it only helps Bungies customers by them providing a fix for their game, regardless of anything else. Otherwise in 5 years people could still be having this issue if they haven't updated to the latest chipset drivers or bios.
If this was a GPU driver issue i probably wouldn't say that bungie really needs to do anything, because people are use to updating their GPU drivers. Chipset drivers and bios updates however, are a different story.
The new 3000 series Ryzen cpu's will make Linux kernel devs work hard again.
Not sure that every motherboard will ship a new bios with the Agesa module updated, not to mention that a fresh Agesa has just been released.
As for today it seems also that the k10temp module has some pending fixes also.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Zen2-k10temp-Patches
AMD is kidding again.
For the record, it took me six months to have a full 100% hang free Linux machine when I ve migrated to my last Ryzen 2700x.
After that pain I am so happy with the cpu that I do have, time to pass this time my dear AMD.
The new 3000 series Ryzen cpu's will make Linux kernel devs work hard again.
Not sure that every motherboard will ship a new bios with the Agesa module updated, not to mention that a fresh Agesa has just been released.
As for today it seems also that the k10temp module has some pending fixes also.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Zen2-k10temp-Patches
AMD is kidding again.
For the record, it took me six months to have a full 100% hang free Linux machine when I ve migrated to my last Ryzen 2700x.
After that pain I am so happy with the cpu that I do have, time to pass this time my dear AMD.
I have the same problem. How did you fix it? What is your motherboard?
I have the same problem. How did you fix it? What is your motherboard?
Hi, you should upgrade at least to kernel version 4.18 even if some distros have pulled some 4.18 patches to the 4.16 version as well.
For the note, I am using kernel version 5.0.2 and I am on Debian.
For the bios, you should have a bios with Agesa version 1.0.0.4 or greater.
The motherboard I am using is an Asus X470-I Strix
Hi, you should upgrade at least to kernel version 4.18 even if some distros have pulled some 4.18 patches to the 4.16 version as well.
For the note, I am using kernel version 5.0.2 and I am on Debian.
For the bios, you should have a bios with Agesa version 1.0.0.4 or greater.
The motherboard I am using is an Asus X470-I Strix
And that's kind of my point though. What will fix it for the majority without people even knowing? Bungie applying a fix to to the game, and whatever needs to be changed in linux.
Well, you're kinda missing the point here:
rdrand is an already well-established instruction since 2012. AMD got it right the first time around, even for Zen. It's not the same thing as other forms of random numbers, so, even though so far we only know of 2 cases, I bet you there are much more than that. The thing is, Zen2 hasn't really been widely adopted yet, especially for high-end workstations or servers (that's what TR, Epyc, and Xeon are for) and that's where rdrand is more likely to be used. Random numbers are ideal for security purposes, which is why systemd in Linux uses it and, as stated by Astyanax, likely contributes to Destiny 2's anti-hack system.
Again i'm not saying that AMD shouldn't provide a fix, i'm just saying that they aren't the only ones who should as it's unreasonable to expect everyone with a Zen 2 processor to update their bios or chipset drivers. You HAVE to update destiny 2 to play it, so if bungie provides a fix, in that one scenario, not a single person will be affected from then on. Maybe i feel that if i was a developer/publisher that i'd want to make certain people can buy and play my games more then bungie if they don't provide a fix, but if they don't, that really doesn't look good for them.
I don't disagree, but, seeing as there is a protocol for rdrand that Zen2 is not following, I don't exactly fault Bungie for basically saying "not my problem". It's shitty customer support on their end, but in principle, they're not wrong.
One other possible solution i guess would be if AMD provides microsoft with the latest chipset driver as a recommended automatic update through windows update.....but that still means people have to make sure their system is up to date and are not blocking windows updates, whereas, again, Destiny 2 HAS to be updated, to play.
I think most people update the chipset driver through Windows update anyway. I don't think there are too many OEM PCs with Zen2 CPUs yet.
It's still by no means a fix for all situations, a bios update realistically is the only way to do that.
Agreed, though, that's even harder for the average person to do.
If this was a GPU driver issue i probably wouldn't say that bungie really needs to do anything, because people are use to updating their GPU drivers. Chipset drivers and bios updates however, are a different story.
I don't disagree. It's not an easy situation no matter how you look at it, but, at least AMD is doing something.
I don't disagree, but, seeing as there is a protocol for rdrand that Zen2 is not following, I don't exactly fault Bungie for basically saying "not my problem". It's shitty customer support on their end, but in principle, they're not wrong.
its the state of the register the instruction uses being out of sorts once the ccx has powered down, rather than it actually outright being wrong. if you never power off the chip by fully disabling CC power states, i suspect destiny 2 wouldn't have any issues - trouble is CC states are how ryzens do their boosts.
Hi, you should upgrade at least to kernel version 4.18 even if some distros have pulled some 4.18 patches to the 4.16 version as well.
For the note, I am using kernel version 5.0.2 and I am on Debian.
For the bios, you should have a bios with Agesa version 1.0.0.4 or greater.
The motherboard I am using is an Asus X470-I Strix
Could you tell me what is exact model number of intel wlan module on that board? Specification on website doesn't list it at all. I want to know if this is the same module as on asrock x470 taichi ultimate.
That's rich coming from you. You ignore the first part of the sentence that basically agrees AMD is at fault, yet the part that doesn't really have anything to do with AMD makes me have too much fanboyism?
Destiny 2 is not a very successful game. This is why they eventually gave it away for free.
Destiny 2? fanboyism? LOLOLOLOLOL oh and LOLOL i have to agree my friend gifted me D2 when he got his 1080ti and i have never touched the game not even installed it so by all means thats not a game i care to even play to start with, so amd came out and said we are sorry,makes them the bad guy? at least they said sorry and working on a fix and didnt say its a bungie problem and they need to fix it asap,no one needs to use the word fanboyism anymore its about what you like,if amd didnt come out with ryzen intel still be on 4c/8t to this day, and to this day i still bash on my friend who told me DLSS and Ray was going to be epic on games and yet i still Ball Bust on him for that,but i also give him the respect as others should you make money and you spend it how you want too.
Could you tell me what is exact model number of intel wlan module on that board? Specification on website doesn't list it at all. I want to know if this is the same module as on asrock x470 taichi ultimate.
The WLAN card on the Asus X470-I Strix is a crap 🙂 I swapped it for an intel 9260.
fixworkaround was to disable RDRAND https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/594661727057215510/605687799714414605/attachment.png