And it still won't have a low level API, you chewed me out for saying that. It's a lowER level API, aint that right. lol

Yes, "closer to the metal" (aka "high-level" with [post="5017546"]"reduced level of abstraction")[/post] is still not the same as "low-level" (aka "no abstraction" at all). That's quite easy to understand when you know some low-level programming languages (Z80 or x86 assembler) and a few high-level languages which are naturally lower-level (Fortran, Pascal, C, etc.) or higher-level (C++, Java, etc.) of abstraction relatively to each other. But that's too much for you to comprehend so you'd rather make more of your useless rants.

It's already on Wikipedia with a fairly technical bits of info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D#Direct3D_12_levels Nah. For AMD cards, there is no practical difference between feature levels 11_1 (GCN 1.0) and 12_0 (GCN 1.1/1.2). GCN 1.0 cards only lack Tier 2 Tiled Resources, but Tier 2 can be approximated on Tier 1 hardware with some additional shader code. Otherwise, the supported feature set is identical, and all GCN chips also support the highest Resource Binding Tier 3 - where there are no practical limits on the size of most important descriptor tables (i.e. fully bindless resources) - and typed UAV loads for additional texture formats. As for Nvidia, everything below Maxwell 2nd gen is level 11_0, but that's not really too far away from levels 11_1 and 12_0 either, since Kepler/Maxwell-1 support partially bindless resources with Resource binding Tier 2, as well as Tiled resources Tier 1 (which again can approximate Tier 2 with additional shader code) - though they don't support typed UAVs for additional texture formats, but do support typed UAV for the three basic formats defined in Direct3D 11.0. Level 12_1 has some interesting additions and in the future every card should support it, but for now it's only Maxwell 2nd gen (GeForce GTX 900 and GTX Titan X). Intel Haswell/Broadwell is feature level 11_1 but at the lowest Resource binding Tier 1, and Skylake is level 12_0. In other words: any existing feature level 11_0 card is just as good in Direct3D 12 as level 11_1 or 12_0 cards. Supporting any particular feature level does not guarantee any performance benefits.

I am glad someone can see these things clear. Just not much people to find to be objective. So much disinfo going on. In-fact, on many "pro technical" sites as well.

But that's too much for you to comprehend so you'd rather make more of your useless rants.

You're right, slinging mud over it being called a low-level API vs lower is pretty useless. Glad that finally drove home for you. 🙂

I think this guy summed it up beast ATM: "currently no card has full DX12 support, and that DX12 support doesn't just go linearly "higher tier is better", but rather the different features have separate tier systems. That is, currently top Maxwell is tier 3 in "tiled resources" and tier 2 in "resource binding", while newest GCN cards are tier 3 in "resource binding" and tier 2 in "tiled resources"." - TunaFish2 Not here to plug another website, but beyond3d.com has some more(fairly technical) info about the DX12 tiers.

Fortunately, the GCN-based cards will fully support DirectX 11.2 once an updated driver has been released. As it turns out, Microsoft’s final DirectX 11.2 specification ended up being slightly different than what AMD expected. As a result, the graphics cards do not currently fully support the API. The issue is not one of hardware, however, and an updated driver can allow the GCN-based 7000 series hardware to fully support the latest DirectX 11.2 API and major new features such as tiled resources http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/GCN-Based-AMD-7000-Series-GPUs-Will-Fully-Support-DirectX-112-After-Driver-Updat sounds like they can make it compatible through software.

You're right, slinging mud over it being called a low-level API vs lower is pretty useless. Glad that finally drove home for you. 🙂

Still didn't drove home for you, as you're the only one who's been calling it "lower level API".

Fortunately, the GCN-based cards will fully support DirectX 11.2 http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/GCN-Based-AMD-7000-Series-GPUs-Will-Fully-Support-DirectX-112-After-Driver-Updat sounds like they can make it compatible through software.

No, they can't. Direct3D 11.2 runtime is part of Windows 8.1 - its major feature addition is support for optional Tiled Resources tiers 1 and 2, which cannot be "made compatible through software" as they require the GPU to have virtual memory with relevant descriptor tables and registers. This feature requires WDDM 1.3, so what AMD did is releasing updated Windows 8.1 drivers that support WDDM 1.3. Otherwise older WDDM 1.x drivers work but new features of the runtime are not be available.

GCN fully support 11.2 .................... Pleeeeease. I would not give them DX11.0 clearance for not implementing command lists 😀

Yes, "closer to the metal" (aka "high-level" with [post="5017546"]"reduced level of abstraction")[/post] is still not the same as "low-level" (aka "no abstraction" at all). That's quite easy to understand when you know some low-level programming languages (Z80 or x86 assembler) and a few high-level languages which are naturally lower-level (Fortran, Pascal, C, etc.) or higher-level (C++, Java, etc.) of abstraction relatively to each other. But that's too much for you to comprehend so you'd rather make more of your useless rants.

You do have a point, but your language analogy is a bit off. Specifically I wouldn't include C++ as necessarily higher-level than C. C++ includes pretty much most of C, with the addition of other frameworks and APIs. Visual C++ is a good example of this. It abstracts a lot, especially system calls. In short, C++ can be lower-level or higher-level. It's a flexible language. Also, low-level languages do provide abstraction. Assembly language falls into this category, there is not always a 1:1 correspondence between an assembly instruction and the underlying machine code instruction(s). A purely non-abstracting language would be the machine code itself, I am not aware of any 1:1 assembly language.

let's be honest here - most of us only care about lower CPU overhead and thread optimizations. That will make AMD cpus on par with intel in games and give both intel and amd cpu owners more fps. As for the other new features - I think we have enough "special effects" so who cares...well, maybe someone does...

No, they can't. Direct3D 11.2 runtime is part of Windows 8.1 - its major feature addition is support for optional Tiled Resources tiers 1 and 2, which cannot be "made compatible through software" as they require the GPU to have virtual memory with relevant descriptor tables and registers. This feature requires WDDM 1.3, so what AMD did is releasing updated Windows 8.1 drivers that support WDDM 1.3. Otherwise older WDDM 1.x drivers work but new features of the runtime are not be available.

Yes, and how quickly it is forgotten that "software compatibility" with hardware features means cpu-driven instead of gpu-driven, or, in other words, "dog slow"...;) Perhaps "unacceptably slow" is a better phrase. Software-driven feature compatibility, even when it's possible, is no substitute for "the metal" in many cases--it's what's been wrong with Intel's series of IGPs for a long time, for instance.

soooooo... looking at the list from AMD... All the fully DX11's GPU are DX12 compatible (with DX11 API) as already stated on GPU box from MSI and ASUS in shop... It is what M$ told us 6 month ago (well done AMD you make a release list that could have be an NVidia one... everyone know that already lol).

Yes, and how quickly it is forgotten that "software compatibility" with hardware features means cpu-driven instead of gpu-driven, or, in other words, "dog slow"...;) Perhaps "unacceptably slow" is a better phrase. Software-driven feature compatibility, even when it's possible, is no substitute for "the metal" in many cases--it's what's been wrong with Intel's series of IGPs for a long time, for instance.

The API is very well done this time we have to wait release but we can be positive (specialy if you have slow GPU). wait and see.

Are you sure. I have the 7970 and no such option at all on 15.4 beta drivers.

Search the forum. You can enable it with a registry tweak. Or install this drivers. http://forum.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=399099&page=3

So no dx 12 for my laptop 🙁 .

So no dx 12 for my laptop 🙁 .

7670m is 6650m rebranded, so no.

All the fully DX11's GPU are DX12 compatible (with DX11 API)

Not exactly. ~55% of currently installed graphics hardware on the desktop (as of Feb 2015 Steam survey) are fully compatible with Direct3D 12 (which amounts to 68% of D3D11.x cards out of total 78% share for all D3D11.x cards). This includes 100% of feature level 11_1 cards and ~50% of feature level 11_0 cards (specifically all 11_0 cards from Nvidia, but not Intel Ivy Bridge or AMD Evergreen/Terascale). However a small share of these Direct3D12 compatible parts have minor optional features that qualify them for higher feature levels 12_0 and 12_1 (currently about 3-5% each out of all Direct3D 12 compliant GPUs on the desktop).

It is what M$ told us 6 month ago (well done AMD you make a release list that could have be an NVidia one...

We knew about the desktop parts, that is Radeon HD7700-7900/8500-8900, R5 240 and all the higher Rx 200 series (at least Graphics Core Next 1.x). Now AMD explicitly specified mobile and APU parts as well.

You do have a point, but your language analogy is a bit off.

There is a direct analogy since system-level APIs are closely tied to a particular programming language and the underlying hardware architecture. Specifically a graphics API is hardly low-level when there is still significant level of abstraction that hides away specific hardware implementation details, even though memory/resource management has been reworked to have less abstraction and automatic memory management.

I wouldn't include C++ as necessarily higher-level than C.

C++ features that are specific to object-oriented programming ("classes" (objects) with member functions/sctructures, inheritance/polymorphism of classes, operator overloads for custom object manipulation, and templates) do provide a higher level of abstraction comparing to simple pointer-based memory model of standard C. In highly abstracted object-oriented languages like Visual Basic .Net/C#, JavaScript/TypeScript, Python and Perl/PHP almost everything is an "object" - even basic variables which would be just a simple scalar type (integer, float, string, and boolean) in lower-level languages.

C++ can be lower-level or higher-level. It's a flexible language.

Because the lower-level part of C++ that operates on scalar types is essentially C.

Also, low-level languages do provide abstraction. Assembly language falls into this category, there is not always a 1:1 correspondence between an assembly instruction and the underlying machine code instruction(s).

Any assembly code is still a low-level language because the level of abstraction is very minimal, even when there's no direct 1:1 mapping and there are several mnemonics/operands for a given machine code or different machine codes for a specific mnemonic/operand.

http://i.imgur.com/aY13AkP.png

http://8pic.ir/images/veemhqc286k5isfbl9i2.jpg Wikipedia - Direct3D 12 feature levels If we really have to go deeply technical, that slide from a Brazilian forum is not correct on several counts. First, none of GCN chips support rasterizer ordered views, conservative rasterization, or tiled resources tier 3 (ie. "volume tiled resources" with Texture3D support). GCN 1.1/1.2 (GCN2/GCN3 in AMD language) support tiled resourced tier 2 (with Texture2D support) - hence they are both at feature level 12_0. GCN 1.0 "only" supports tiled resources tier 1, hence feature level 11_1. Double precision floats are supported across the entire range. As for Nvidia, Kepler and Maxwell-1 do support resource binding tier 2, and do not support typed UAV load for additional texture formats - this leaves them at feature level 11_0. Maxwell-2 is currently the only card which supports feature level 12_1. [post="5070453"]It's not that it really matters much though.[/post] All this has been verified against the latest SDK and preliminary WDDM 2.0 drivers. Conservative depth, SAD4 or dedicated atomic counter are not part of the current SDK, neither is "emulated" tier 3 for tiled resources.

gotta love the play on words both side use. There are no DX 12 HW cards there are cards that are compatible, and the compatible comes from mix of hw/software. Atlest this how i always understood it since forever. We probably wont see fully HW DX12 cards till after Windows 10 is out