AMD FreeSync will be adopted by VESA

shymi

2014-04-08 08:13

So at first glance AMD is one step ahead of Nvidia in this, although it would be interesting to see the pros and cons for the two technologies.

#4796756

Koniakki

2014-04-08 08:14

So basically everyone that already owns a monitor/HDTV and has it connected to their discrete gpu is out of luck for enjoying either FreeSync or G-Sync. Correct? Or did I miss something?

#4796769

DarkKnightDude

2014-04-08 08:27

Regardless of whoever implements this first, I'll be glad to see things like screen tearing gone. But this will take awhile. I was thinking about buying a GSync monitor but now I'm probably just going to wait and see how Free does first.

#4796798

ASLayerAODsk

2014-04-08 09:09

arg! display port is limited to 60hz :P aka youll never get more than 60fps :P my current moniter does up to 72hz...blah. hence why I do NOT use DP but HDMI. :P

#4796802

Ven0m

2014-04-08 09:25

arg! display port is limited to 60hz :P aka youll never get more than 60fps :P my current moniter does up to 72hz...blah. hence why I do NOT use DP but HDMI. :P

I don't think it's really true.

#4796803

Fierce Guppy

2014-04-08 09:25

So basically everyone that already owns a monitor/HDTV and has it connected to their discrete gpu is out of luck for enjoying either FreeSync or G-Sync. Correct?

Yes. http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Variable-Refresh-FreeSync-Could-Be-Alternative-NVIDIA-G-Sync "All that is needed for this to work, as AMD explained it, was an eDP connection between the discrete GPU and the display, a controller for the screen that understands the variable refresh rate methods of eDP 1.0 specifications and an updated AMD driver to properly send it the signals. The panel can communicate that it supports this variable refresh technology to the graphics card through the EDID as resolutions and timings are communicated today and then the graphics driver would know to send the varying vblank signals to adjust panel refresh times on the fly." Laptop displays use an eDP connection, but existing desktop monitors do not. There's a scalar chip inside desktop monitors and it doesn't do dynamic v-sync which is why Freesync was demoed on a laptop. I'm fairly sure HDTVs are in the same boat with desktop monitors. My question is: Do all modern laptops support ePD 1.0 and above and, if so, why doesn't nVidia include support for dynamic v-sync in their drivers? I mean, I can run BF4 on my laptop which has a GTX 675MX. With dynamic v-sync I could increase the detail settings and the game would still appear to run smooth.

#4796806

ASLayerAODsk

2014-04-08 09:29

I don't think it's really true.

why wouldn't you think its true? that it can only do 60hz in its current level...

#4796811

Lane

2014-04-08 09:39

Yes. http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Variable-Refresh-FreeSync-Could-Be-Alternative-NVIDIA-G-Sync "All that is needed for this to work, as AMD explained it, was an eDP connection between the discrete GPU and the display, a controller for the screen that understands the variable refresh rate methods of eDP 1.0 specifications and an updated AMD driver to properly send it the signals. The panel can communicate that it supports this variable refresh technology to the graphics card through the EDID as resolutions and timings are communicated today and then the graphics driver would know to send the varying vblank signals to adjust panel refresh times on the fly." Laptop displays use an eDP connection, but existing desktop monitors do not. There's a scalar chip inside desktop monitors and it doesn't do dynamic v-sync which is why Freesync was demoed on a laptop. I'm fairly sure HDTVs are in the same boat with desktop monitors.

Huum, well im not sure, but eDP connected monitor ( mainly laptop and mobile phone, tablet ) had allready the dynamic v-blank control, as it is used for reduce power usage of the monitor. Now Vesa applied the "dynamic v-blank" to DP 1.2a as standard.. this is by software, you dont need a scalar chip .. Basically a new parameter is taking in account by the monitor software: it can ignore the timing of the v-sync ( i should say v-blank ), and let it controlled by the GPU driver. The only thing is doing this vesa appliccations is add a new parameter in the actual 1.2a compliance: " MSA timing parameter Ignore" .. ( and not 1.3 as it was mentionned early in some article ) . This is the assesment deposed by AMD to VESA compliance. and added in DP1.2a compliance.

Summary Extend the “MSA TIMING PARAMETER IGNORE” option to DisplayPort to enable source based control of the frame rate similar to embedded DisplayPort. Intellectual property rights N/A Benefits as a result of changes This enables the ability for external DisplayPort to take advantage of the option to ignore MSA timing parameter and have the sink slave to source timing to realize per frame dynamic refresh rate. Assessment of the impact The proposed change enable per frame dynamic refresh rate for single stream devices that expose dynamic refresh rate capability in EDID for DisplayPort interface. The source will be able to enable this with an SST interface or MST hub with physical ports. Logical MST port support of the feature is not included as part of this SCR. A generic framework to enable such feature for logical port is required that can accommodate other feature where stream related configuration is programmed in DPCD. Analysis of the device software implication SST device which support “MSA TIMING PARAMETER IGNORE” option will be able to expose the capability in EDID and DPCD to let source enable dynamic refresh rate. Source driver would have to be updated to parse EDID and enable “MSA TIMING PARAMETER IGNORE” feature when source want the sink to be refreshed based on its update rate. Analysis of the compliance test and interop implications Currently this feature is tested as part of eDP CTS. New test would have to be added as part of DP LL CTS and EDID CTS.

Based on an unnamed source, hardware.fr (google translate) appears to have seen the response to this document, specifically mentioning it in the line “Extend DP1.2a MSA Tmg settings Ignore Option AMD”. This indicates that the specific option AMD requested has been accepted, and will be extended into the DisplayPort 1.2a specification. This should mean that any display supporting DP1.2a should support the dynamic refresh rate that is required for AMD to make use of what they called “Freesync” when they showed it off at CES. This is a developing story, and we’ll be updating it as new information comes in.

Now, does it need a firmware update ? or a driver monitor update, can it applied to exisiting monitor, HDTV ? .. i dont know.. we will need to wait more. Something is sure, we can maybe expect any monitor in the future will got this function added, without any additional cost. Or monitor / TV manufacturers can improve and use this feature on their own for their panels.

#4796816

southamptonfc

2014-04-08 09:48

why wouldn't you think its true? that it can only do 60hz in its current level...

I have 144hz running on my DP.

#4796821

ASLayerAODsk

2014-04-08 09:57

I have 144hz running on my DP.

hmm...i couldnt get mine to go higher than 60hz @ 2560x1080

#4796824

Lane

2014-04-08 10:09

hmm...i couldnt get mine to go higher than 60hz @ 2560x1080

I dont think there's any limitation on the DP standard... Now this can come from the manufacturer of the monitor limitation.. There's many 144-120hz monitor out, who use DP and they do 120-144hz on DP port .. DisplayPort should be the most advanced connection today over DVI and HDMI .. and you can even do 120hz on DVI ( ask peoples with QNIX 27" PLS panel ), i dont see why you will not been able to do it on DP... Now, for the eDP demonstration of Free-sync, 60hz was because the laptop panel used for the demonstration had a max 60hz timing. ( like if you buy a 60hz 1920x1080p panel, outside overclocking it (if possible ), you cant set an higher v-sync of 60hz ( fixed by the manufacturer ).

#4796825

ASLayerAODsk

2014-04-08 10:13

Im using an Asus PB298Q which can do up to 72hz...and when I had the DP in...it wouldnt detect any more than 60hz...@ 2560x1080. :P

#4796828

JulianBr

2014-04-08 10:16

Diplayport is better

hmm...i couldnt get mine to go higher than 60hz @ 2560x1080

"DisplayPort has slightly more bandwidth at 21.6 Gbit/s (17.28 Gbit/s with overhead removed) as opposed to HDMI 2.0's 18 Gbit/s" Displayport does support 120hz ++ (running @120hz right now (1080P). HDMI 1.4 is even slower with 10.2 Gbit/s .. Diplayport has also alot of other advantages over HDMI. 🙂

#4796832

ASLayerAODsk

2014-04-08 10:21

grr..now im wondering what I am doing wrong..and why I couldnt get DP to go up to 72hz...:P I have a R9-280x..so its not like I have crap hardware..or outdated....

#4796839

southamptonfc

2014-04-08 10:25

Im using an Asus PB298Q which can do up to 72hz...and when I had the DP in...it wouldnt detect any more than 60hz...@ 2560x1080. :P

That's a problem with your monitor, not the Display Port standard.

#4796840

Lane

2014-04-08 10:26

grr..now im wondering what I am doing wrong..and why I couldnt get DP to go up to 72hz...:P I have a R9-280x..so its not like I have crap hardware..or outdated....

Dont worry about it, its a limitation on the panel software or EDID, not all PLS panel can be overclocked... I can set mine 27" PLS at 85hz, open the game choose 85hz, play and i can see that im at 85hz, but suddenly after 5minutes , a short blink, and it revert to 60hz.

#4796849

ASLayerAODsk

2014-04-08 10:47

so its my moniter that cant handle it then? Im not quite well versed in moniters...yet 🙂

#4796857

BLEH!

2014-04-08 11:02

60 Hz here at 1440p

#4796867

Lane

2014-04-08 11:21

so its my moniter that cant handle it then? Im not quite well versed in moniters...yet 🙂

I think this is the case yes. ( well i dont know much this particular monitor too )

#4796993

Benny_26

2014-04-08 15:10

arg! display port is limited to 60hz :P aka youll never get more than 60fps :P my current moniter does up to 72hz...blah. hence why I do NOT use DP but HDMI. :P

my SyncMaster SA850 overclocks up to 85Hz on DP 1.2