its not just a exclusive api for PC, but a exclusive api for just AMD cards (7xxx and up) isnt it ?

You would hope that they have made Mantle as close as possible to coding bare-metal on the PS4 and XBox One. Otherwise I just can't see it being adopted, especially when they will still need to write a DirectX / OpenGL version as well for Nvidia / Intel graphics.

Starting to smell of exclusives, to encourage people to buy an AMD card.

Starting to smell of exclusives, to encourage people to buy an AMD card.

If they are smart, thats there plan.

Stop delaying Hilbert and post those R9-290X reviews! 😀

Stop delaying Hilbert and post those R9-290X reviews! 😀

Not this week ...

Not this week ...

boooo

You would hope that they have made Mantle as close as possible to coding bare-metal on the PS4 and XBox One. Otherwise I just can't see it being adopted, especially when they will still need to write a DirectX / OpenGL version as well for Nvidia / Intel graphics.

Taking in account the Low level API on the xbox one and PS4 are made for GCN architecture and have have access to close metal programming, and like Mantle is too an API who allow close to metal programming, the port or the use is clearly similar. Even if is not a straight "Mantle API ": - XboxOne and Ps4 use an API who access low level close to metal programming on AMD GCN architecture. - Mantle is an API for PC who allow the same access to low level close to metal programming on AMD GCN architectures. Even if the "software ( API ) part " is different.. they are surely close enough as they do more or less the same thing. Anyway we will know more on november.

that's what I'm thinking, both consoles run gcn hardware and a low level api, there will be similarities.

Not this week ...

Oh well... It worth a shot anyway... Thanks Hilb. :thumbup:

Not the best of news but we'll see how things turn out.

What the hell AMD. We need to se the 290x benchmarks. I want to upgrade to this cards before BF4 comes out and If I don't order this week I might not even get it at the launch of BF4. BTW I'm in SA.

And lo, thousands of AMD fanbois cried out in terror and then were suddenly silenced.

Mantle is DX HLSL-compatible, you can develop for DX11.x, use the Mantle-API to optimise a lot of graphics coding/performance (just like some games have PhysX-options although the value of that is pretty much nil since the performance hit is usually not worth it for most Geforce-owners), nVidia can write a Mantle-driver for their cards (but they probably won't). AMD have said that nothing stops nVidia from writing a driver that works with Mantle on their GPU's. We'll see where this will go. Impossible to say anything at this point.

im just laughing about all the hiped people before when amd first announced all this and they were like hell yeah supper crads new technology new api and all you got was a rebrand. Everyone who followed the market last couple of yours could have seen this coming, mantle is still in beta and has no announcements except for BF4 and ofcourse microsoft will not use mantle on xbox one as for mantle we already had such api in the past and we moved away from them so unless amd makes it open enough and usable for nvidia it will not catch on

NVidia will never use it,if it takes off they'll have their own similar API( that they can control ). Im more interested in seeing if this will be available on Linux and if it will mean more PC games will be available on Linux( i hate Windows, would move in a second if top games were available on Linux ), M$ has done its best to hold PC gaming back, forcing delays of PC ports with $$$, having a crap PC GFWL, not porting most of M$ developed Xbox games. I would love to see sales of their OS's hurting if gamers moved to Linux, might be a pipe dream but sure we live in hope.

im just laughing about all the hiped people before when amd first announced all this and they were like hell yeah supper crads new technology new api and all you got was a rebrand. Everyone who followed the market last couple of yours could have seen this coming, mantle is still in beta and has no announcements except for BF4 and ofcourse microsoft will not use mantle on xbox one as for mantle we already had such api in the past and we moved away from them so unless amd makes it open enough and usable for nvidia it will not catch on

Mantle is open and NVidia is completely free to use it if they so choose. That has been stated several times. With AMD controlling all 3 consoles, NVidia is [in reality] irrelevant in whether or not Mantle takes off. It's solely up to developers and whether or not they want to make use of it.

....

Starting to smell of exclusives, to encourage people to buy an AMD card.

Well if you look at it in another way this might be a good thing for the future of pc gaming.First let's look at gpu's as i high end scalable console (Nvidia and AMD) each with their own api and exclusives like the console market (Microsoft and Sony) which are both competitors.Now the difference between them is what they have to offer for sale.Sony and Microsoft are stuck on one console for the next 5-10 years but AMD and Nvidia until then they would have hundreds of different variants of Gpu's for sale.If AMD and Nvidia would step in a new direction they could each make their own api and operating system exclusively for gaming only based on their hardware. As technology progresses users won't need i high end rig anymore to play AAA titles as more features get embedded on the card itself like what Amd is doing now with including a DSP for sound.This as a reaction could expand their business even further if they pay game studios to take advantage out of their cards and OP systems like the web has done with endless possibilities.Only then we could get (finally) rid of Windows for gaming and leave it for other purposes only and have a much better experience and performance plus almost? no more pirated games...Anyway i could go on and on but i will put a stop here. I might be dreaming but only time will show...........

Gliding to obscurity: no consoles in Mantle’s crust

AMD’s cross-platform API, which promises ease of development across platforms that use graphics core next (GCN), will not be coming to consoles, Microsoft and AMD confirm. Late Monday night U.S. time Microsoft published a blog post confirming that the Xbox One’s only API will be DirectX 11.x, and will closely resemble a superset of DirectX 11.2 at launch. “The Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2 functionality,” Microsoft wrote. “Other graphics APIs such as OpenGL and AMD’s Mantle are not available on Xbox One.” Shortly after, AMD followed up to Microsoft’s post with a comment to DSOgaming: “What Mantle creates for the PC is a development environment that’s *similar* to the consoles, which already offer low-level APIs, close-to-metal programming, easier development and more (vs. the complicated PC environment). By creating a more console-like developer environment, Mantle: improves time to market; reduces development costs; and allows for considerably more efficient rendering, improving performance for gamers. The console connection is made because next-gen uses Radeon, so much of the programming they’re doing for the consoles are already well-suited to a modern Radeon architecture on the desktop; that continuum is what allows Mantle to exist.” For AMD, this is a rather large backtrack from what it implied at #gpu14. It also throws into doubt the position it has been taking all summer. The company was confident that it was moving to be the dominant GPU platform because its IP powers both major next-generation consoles, and it is launching what it called a cross-platform development tool to ease development on common GCN platforms. At Computex, AMD’s general manager of graphics, Matt Syknner, said in an interview that AMD providing IP to both major consoles would ensure that it was the dominant GPU company as developing across the PC-Xbox One-Playstation 4 ecoystem would be much easier given the similar hardware. “We’re using the console success as a leverage point for success in other markets…when those [games] port over, they are going to run great on our hardware,” he said during an interview. When asked about why Nvidia can’t match what AMD has he said, “because they don’t have the opportunities in the consoles that we have.” At #gpu14 in Honolulu last month, AMD’s position on dominance expanded to include an API called Mantle that would ease cross-platform development. Mantle is said to offer “bare metal” access to GCN, emulating the console style “close-to-metal” APIs on the PC, while also augmenting existing APIs on consoles (or replacing, as Microsoft may have thought). Because of the common platform, as AMD had previously said, and now because of the common cross console API, as AMD now implied at #gpu14, cross-platform development will be much easier than before. “I think one of the benefits that game developers are going to realize is that because of their strong familiarity with the PC already, and developing on our hardware, we anticipate development budgets to be somewhere less or lower because they won’t have to spend as much development time and the learning curve is much shorter,” AMD’s Richie Corpus said to VR-Zone during the conference. Now that Mantle has been confirmed not to be on consoles, it’s quickly looking like another Glide. Should Mantle have been cross-platform, supported by both major consoles, the competitive bargain of the new and relatively unknown API would that it would have enabled much simpler cross platform development. With the cross-platform development factor out of the equation, and Mantle not open to the public until 2014-2015, as per AMD’s Corpus, why would developers use it instead of sticking with tried-and-true open standards? The eulogy of CUDA and PhysX was written because “our industry doesn’t like proprietary standards” as Roy Taylor said. More details on Mantle won’t be available until AMD’s APU developer conference in November. Perhaps then the company will further define the place of Mantle in the gaming ecoystem. But until then, it looks as if AMD stomped on its competitor’s card a little too soon. After all, hubris sinks ships.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/gliding-obscurity-consoles-mantles-crust/60434.html