AMD Announces 7nm Radeon RX Radeon Vega Instinct with 32 GB HBM2
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HardwareCaps
but it does, since AMD now focuses on AI they spend more marketing,R&D,time,effort to make AI oriented products (just like nvidia made a fking complete architecture for AI)
pushing gaming to the side(just like Nvidia conference was AI bla bla , machine learning bla bla most of the time)
schmidtbag
This Vega indirectly affects gamers and workstations; that doesn't mean its existence has anything to do with us. Anyway, AMD is focusing on AI because it's the only thing that's going to make them money. As of today, gamers are probably the least profitable of all the GPU demographics. Even Nvidia knows this, and their recent behaviors match this knowledge. Gamers and hardware reviewers have been especially critical of AMD lately, and AMD doesn't have the time or money to satisfy them. So, why should they put any effort toward us when we're the only ones hurting them in the long run? If it weren't for the miners, AMD likely would've lost money from Vega.
I don't disagree that it sucks we're not getting anything good or new, but once the mining craze dies down, gamers will no longer be the least profitable, and we [should] be given more attention. This applies to Nvidia, too.
HardwareCaps
WRONG, Nvidia still makes most of their money from gaming, they see the huge potential of the AI market but it is still not as profitable as gaming for them(same goes for AMD)
http://s22.q4cdn.com/364334381/files/doc_financials/quarterly_reports/2018/Rev_by_Mkt_Qtrly_Trend_Q118.pdf
HardwareCaps
actually I would say they are losing money on AI ATM. they spend massive R&D and marketing efforts to make sure they are the leaders but the market is very young and still doesn't make billions of dollars like gaming does.
we are just getting screwed because there's no competition, you'll see just like the CPU market, once competition comes along everybody starts to release products like crazy.
AMD poses zero threat on nvidia ATM
schmidtbag
Uh... you do realize miners and many workstations use gaming GPUs, right? That chart is based on Nvidia's definition of product category, not how they're actually used.
HardwareCaps
the AI market ATM is tiny, wake up. it has potential but gaming IS the main money source for Nvidia, mining was not so popular at 2016 yet gaming was the clear money grabber. gaming market is the biggest money source for nvidia/amd, like it or not
schmidtbag
Seeing as you yourself admitted it has the potential, shouldn't it be you the one who wakes up? If any company is to invest into AI, now is the time to do so. Nvidia already has a huge head start. If AMD expects this to be a profitable endeavor, they need to devote more attention to it. I am confident that AMD does not currently profit the most from gamers; pointing out Nvidia's sales is hardly relevant here.
You are way too focused on what is happening now, and your own personal preferences.
Denial
It's pointless to argue against him. I did in the other thread and I realized he barely reads into the context of what anyone says, hyperbolizes everything and creates strawmen left and right. Take this earlier post for example where he quoted me and said:
Not once in this thread did I write anything like this.
or this:
He posts a chart that shows the AI market as half of Nvidia's revenue, growing significantly quarter to quarter - while gaming peaks then falls, yet he calls AI "tiny" or earlier where 3x perf/w is apparently "not big". The logic of his 2016 comment doesn't even make sense in the context of AI and AMD wanting a piece of that pie with Vega onward - which is what you (schimidtbag) is arguing.
Lisa Su during the Vega Launch conference basically said AI market is going to be massive and it's imperative that they capture a piece of it - especially because the R&D work they do there mostly overlaps with gaming so it's free but according to him it's the opposite:
If I didn't write this next part he'd probably quote me and say that he was talking about Nvidia but it's not relevant. All the design work for GP100 went directly into the rest of Pascal. Volta will be mostly the same - they'll use tensors for RTX stuff and I'm sure other marquee features. The R&D for the most part is shared between the two sectors which is why both companies are pursuing it so hard. AMD's problem is that a chip SKU costs something like $500M from design -> shelf - figure half that for a redesign. Thus Vega being multi-role, requiring HBM to function in both compute/GPU sectors. They can't afford to do what Nvidia does and spin a separate Vega chips for HBM/GDDR5x.
Gaming graphics cards haven't been in stock for months for gamers to buy.. but apparently the gamers who can't buy them are the only reason why Nvidia is making money the last two quarters, not the miners buying them all..
Denial
7nm is a pretty large jump from 16/14/12nm. Most people think 28 -> 16 was big because it skipped 20 but 20 -> 16nm didn't actually improve density. Nvidia's 12nm TSMC process is on 7.5T and doesn't improve density over 16nm either - only the 6.5T variant of 12nm improved.
So yeah, 7nm cards are going to be a pretty significant upgrade.. the problem is that $/transistor cost isn't scaling down anymore with these new nodes. So even though you can technically build a 20B transistor chip on 600mm2 the cost to manufacture it is going to be outrageous. Nvidia/AMD are obviously going to pass that cost onto the consumer in some way. Going to be interesting to see how they deal with that.
tensai28
I just hope AMD can make a 1080ti competitor so the gaming market can stop being so boring.
