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Corsair M65 RGB ELITE game mouse review
Posted by: on: 01/07/2019 09:00 PM [
16 comment(s) ]
As Corsair releases a new FPS gamers mouse, we review the Corsair M65 RGB ELITE, the device is sturdy with an aluminum design, it's aesthetically pleasing with configurable RGB LEDs and has a grip that is intensely impressive. Not just that, Corsair includes an 18K DPI sensor and made the mouse tunable with an intricate weight system to match the mouse towards what you prefer. It might be one of the more impressive mouse’s we have tested to date.
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Robbo9999
Senior Member
Posts: 1297
Senior Member
Posts: 1297
Posted on: 01/08/2019 07:23 AM
Laser sensor rather than optical sensor, I thought laser sensors were a think of the past due to their inherent acceleration issues - ie not 1 to 1 tracking with varied mouse movement speed, not flawless tracking. When I was looking into this about a year and a bit ago there were no laser mice with flawless tracking. Surprised gaming mice still made with laser sensors, unless they've got some improved sensors that offer the so called flawless tracking?
Laser sensor rather than optical sensor, I thought laser sensors were a think of the past due to their inherent acceleration issues - ie not 1 to 1 tracking with varied mouse movement speed, not flawless tracking. When I was looking into this about a year and a bit ago there were no laser mice with flawless tracking. Surprised gaming mice still made with laser sensors, unless they've got some improved sensors that offer the so called flawless tracking?
HeavyHemi
Senior Member
Posts: 6238
Senior Member
Posts: 6238
Posted on: 01/08/2019 07:37 AM
What do you mean? They are all optical CMOS sensors. What 'inherent acceleration issue'?
https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-mouse-myths-busted/
Laser sensor rather than optical sensor, I thought laser sensors were a think of the past due to their inherent acceleration issues - ie not 1 to 1 tracking with varied mouse movement speed, not flawless tracking. When I was looking into this about a year and a bit ago there were no laser mice with flawless tracking. Surprised gaming mice still made with laser sensors, unless they've got some improved sensors that offer the so called flawless tracking?
What do you mean? They are all optical CMOS sensors. What 'inherent acceleration issue'?
https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-mouse-myths-busted/
Robbo9999
Senior Member
Posts: 1297
Senior Member
Posts: 1297
Posted on: 01/08/2019 07:55 AM
What do you mean? They are all optical CMOS sensors. What 'inherent acceleration issue'?
https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-mouse-myths-busted/
I've seen testing of various mice, both so called laser mice & optical mice, and none of the laser mice have ever met the grade for 'perfect flawless tracking', ie no acceleration or another way to describe it, "flawless tracking" = "1 to 1 tracking". It doesn't matter how you dress up the terminology of what constitutes a "laser" or "optical" description, it's just based on actual tests that these conclusions re acceleration with laser mice have been drawn. And acceleration is not a myth, it happens. At the link at the end of my post they explain differences between laser & optical with regard to acceleration, and this is the passage quoted:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"2.3 Laser and optical sensor
You will find that many mice are being advertized as being either laser or optical sensor mice. Obviously, this refers to the way the sensor detects movement of the mouse. Essentially, both laser and optical mice work very similarly. The main difference is the method that is used to illuminate the area under the sensor. With optical mice, this is done through the use of a light emitting diode (LED). Laser mice instead use an infrared laser diode to illuminate the surface under the sensor. The more interesting thing is the difference between the performance of laser and optical mice. Laser mice use a newer technology and are typically capable of attaining a higher DPI. For these two reasons people often incorrectly assume that laser sensors are superior.
When it comes to the sensor being able to track well on a surface, there are differences between the two, but one is not strictly better than the other. Laser sensors track better on some surfaces (like glass) while optical sensors track better on others (typically, cloth mousepads). Where the laser sensors lose out to the optical sensors is when it comes to accuracy and reliability. While the newer laser sensors manage to avoid prediction, the popular Avago laser sensors (9500, 9800) found in many modern mice all suffer from acceleration issues. Furthermore, while these sensor have a very high malfunction speed, their maximum perfect tracking speed is actually lower than that of the typical optical sensor. Another frequently used laser sensor, the Philips twin eye sensor, uses a different method to register mouse-movement. It actually does not have any acceleration issues, but introduces a problem when lifting the mouse, commonly referred to as a z-axis problem. The cursor moves when the mouse is lifted, which creates a problem for people who lift the mouse frequently with the intention of having the sensor stop its tracking.
One thing that is worth pointing out is that even when mice use the same sensor, that does not mean they have identical tracking characteristics. Different manufacturers implement sensors in a different way. Take the Avago 3090 sensor for example. Due to the specific implementation of it, we see it in mice that have some of the lowest lift of distances, and in mice that have some of the highest lift of distances on the market. Additionally, we see that the max perfect tracking speed differs across mice using this same sensor."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With the upsurgence of optical gaming mice just a few years ago that was the first time that acceleration issues were effectively eradicated. This is one website with related info:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0
What do you mean? They are all optical CMOS sensors. What 'inherent acceleration issue'?
https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-mouse-myths-busted/
I've seen testing of various mice, both so called laser mice & optical mice, and none of the laser mice have ever met the grade for 'perfect flawless tracking', ie no acceleration or another way to describe it, "flawless tracking" = "1 to 1 tracking". It doesn't matter how you dress up the terminology of what constitutes a "laser" or "optical" description, it's just based on actual tests that these conclusions re acceleration with laser mice have been drawn. And acceleration is not a myth, it happens. At the link at the end of my post they explain differences between laser & optical with regard to acceleration, and this is the passage quoted:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"2.3 Laser and optical sensor
You will find that many mice are being advertized as being either laser or optical sensor mice. Obviously, this refers to the way the sensor detects movement of the mouse. Essentially, both laser and optical mice work very similarly. The main difference is the method that is used to illuminate the area under the sensor. With optical mice, this is done through the use of a light emitting diode (LED). Laser mice instead use an infrared laser diode to illuminate the surface under the sensor. The more interesting thing is the difference between the performance of laser and optical mice. Laser mice use a newer technology and are typically capable of attaining a higher DPI. For these two reasons people often incorrectly assume that laser sensors are superior.
When it comes to the sensor being able to track well on a surface, there are differences between the two, but one is not strictly better than the other. Laser sensors track better on some surfaces (like glass) while optical sensors track better on others (typically, cloth mousepads). Where the laser sensors lose out to the optical sensors is when it comes to accuracy and reliability. While the newer laser sensors manage to avoid prediction, the popular Avago laser sensors (9500, 9800) found in many modern mice all suffer from acceleration issues. Furthermore, while these sensor have a very high malfunction speed, their maximum perfect tracking speed is actually lower than that of the typical optical sensor. Another frequently used laser sensor, the Philips twin eye sensor, uses a different method to register mouse-movement. It actually does not have any acceleration issues, but introduces a problem when lifting the mouse, commonly referred to as a z-axis problem. The cursor moves when the mouse is lifted, which creates a problem for people who lift the mouse frequently with the intention of having the sensor stop its tracking.
One thing that is worth pointing out is that even when mice use the same sensor, that does not mean they have identical tracking characteristics. Different manufacturers implement sensors in a different way. Take the Avago 3090 sensor for example. Due to the specific implementation of it, we see it in mice that have some of the lowest lift of distances, and in mice that have some of the highest lift of distances on the market. Additionally, we see that the max perfect tracking speed differs across mice using this same sensor."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With the upsurgence of optical gaming mice just a few years ago that was the first time that acceleration issues were effectively eradicated. This is one website with related info:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0
999Anticlock9wiSe
Member
Posts: 21
Member
Posts: 21
Posted on: 01/08/2019 09:21 AM
lot of drivel above.
lot of drivel above.
BlueRay
Senior Member
Posts: 265
Senior Member
Posts: 265
Posted on: 01/08/2019 10:51 AM
I've seen testing of various mice, both so called laser mice & optical mice, and none of the laser mice have ever met the grade for 'perfect flawless tracking', ie no acceleration or another way to describe it, "flawless tracking" = "1 to 1 tracking". It doesn't matter how you dress up the terminology of what constitutes a "laser" or "optical" description, it's just based on actual tests that these conclusions re acceleration with laser mice have been drawn. And acceleration is not a myth, it happens. At the link at the end of my post they explain differences between laser & optical with regard to acceleration, and this is the passage quoted:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"2.3 Laser and optical sensor
You will find that many mice are being advertized as being either laser or optical sensor mice. Obviously, this refers to the way the sensor detects movement of the mouse. Essentially, both laser and optical mice work very similarly. The main difference is the method that is used to illuminate the area under the sensor. With optical mice, this is done through the use of a light emitting diode (LED). Laser mice instead use an infrared laser diode to illuminate the surface under the sensor. The more interesting thing is the difference between the performance of laser and optical mice. Laser mice use a newer technology and are typically capable of attaining a higher DPI. For these two reasons people often incorrectly assume that laser sensors are superior.
When it comes to the sensor being able to track well on a surface, there are differences between the two, but one is not strictly better than the other. Laser sensors track better on some surfaces (like glass) while optical sensors track better on others (typically, cloth mousepads). Where the laser sensors lose out to the optical sensors is when it comes to accuracy and reliability. While the newer laser sensors manage to avoid prediction, the popular Avago laser sensors (9500, 9800) found in many modern mice all suffer from acceleration issues. Furthermore, while these sensor have a very high malfunction speed, their maximum perfect tracking speed is actually lower than that of the typical optical sensor. Another frequently used laser sensor, the Philips twin eye sensor, uses a different method to register mouse-movement. It actually does not have any acceleration issues, but introduces a problem when lifting the mouse, commonly referred to as a z-axis problem. The cursor moves when the mouse is lifted, which creates a problem for people who lift the mouse frequently with the intention of having the sensor stop its tracking.
One thing that is worth pointing out is that even when mice use the same sensor, that does not mean they have identical tracking characteristics. Different manufacturers implement sensors in a different way. Take the Avago 3090 sensor for example. Due to the specific implementation of it, we see it in mice that have some of the lowest lift of distances, and in mice that have some of the highest lift of distances on the market. Additionally, we see that the max perfect tracking speed differs across mice using this same sensor."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With the upsurgence of optical gaming mice just a few years ago that was the first time that acceleration issues were effectively eradicated. This is one website with related info:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0
Isn't this about old laser sensors and not the newer ones which don't have such problems?
The article is fairly old and laser sensors have improved since then.
According to the review the M65 should be among the most accurate mice out there.
I've seen testing of various mice, both so called laser mice & optical mice, and none of the laser mice have ever met the grade for 'perfect flawless tracking', ie no acceleration or another way to describe it, "flawless tracking" = "1 to 1 tracking". It doesn't matter how you dress up the terminology of what constitutes a "laser" or "optical" description, it's just based on actual tests that these conclusions re acceleration with laser mice have been drawn. And acceleration is not a myth, it happens. At the link at the end of my post they explain differences between laser & optical with regard to acceleration, and this is the passage quoted:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"2.3 Laser and optical sensor
You will find that many mice are being advertized as being either laser or optical sensor mice. Obviously, this refers to the way the sensor detects movement of the mouse. Essentially, both laser and optical mice work very similarly. The main difference is the method that is used to illuminate the area under the sensor. With optical mice, this is done through the use of a light emitting diode (LED). Laser mice instead use an infrared laser diode to illuminate the surface under the sensor. The more interesting thing is the difference between the performance of laser and optical mice. Laser mice use a newer technology and are typically capable of attaining a higher DPI. For these two reasons people often incorrectly assume that laser sensors are superior.
When it comes to the sensor being able to track well on a surface, there are differences between the two, but one is not strictly better than the other. Laser sensors track better on some surfaces (like glass) while optical sensors track better on others (typically, cloth mousepads). Where the laser sensors lose out to the optical sensors is when it comes to accuracy and reliability. While the newer laser sensors manage to avoid prediction, the popular Avago laser sensors (9500, 9800) found in many modern mice all suffer from acceleration issues. Furthermore, while these sensor have a very high malfunction speed, their maximum perfect tracking speed is actually lower than that of the typical optical sensor. Another frequently used laser sensor, the Philips twin eye sensor, uses a different method to register mouse-movement. It actually does not have any acceleration issues, but introduces a problem when lifting the mouse, commonly referred to as a z-axis problem. The cursor moves when the mouse is lifted, which creates a problem for people who lift the mouse frequently with the intention of having the sensor stop its tracking.
One thing that is worth pointing out is that even when mice use the same sensor, that does not mean they have identical tracking characteristics. Different manufacturers implement sensors in a different way. Take the Avago 3090 sensor for example. Due to the specific implementation of it, we see it in mice that have some of the lowest lift of distances, and in mice that have some of the highest lift of distances on the market. Additionally, we see that the max perfect tracking speed differs across mice using this same sensor."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With the upsurgence of optical gaming mice just a few years ago that was the first time that acceleration issues were effectively eradicated. This is one website with related info:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0
Isn't this about old laser sensors and not the newer ones which don't have such problems?
The article is fairly old and laser sensors have improved since then.
According to the review the M65 should be among the most accurate mice out there.
Robbo9999
Senior Member
Posts: 1297
Senior Member
Posts: 1297
Posted on: 01/08/2019 11:43 AM
Isn't this about old laser sensors and not the newer ones which don't have such problems?
The article is fairly old and laser sensors have improved since then.
According to the review the M65 should be among the most accurate mice out there.
Yeah, it is older information, but I haven't looked for newer info. Have you got some links to any newer laser mice testing with regards to any acceleration/tracking issues?
EDIT: I know for a fact that I had acceleration on my old Logitech G9x laser mouse, I tested it, it was massively different at different mouse movement speeds. And there's zero such acceleration on my current optical mouse (Logitech G Pro). Whether the newer laser mice can completely remove any acceleration issues I do not know - this is the question at hand. I did quick google search and couldn't find any supporting evidence showing newer laser mice don't have acceleration issues.
Isn't this about old laser sensors and not the newer ones which don't have such problems?
The article is fairly old and laser sensors have improved since then.
According to the review the M65 should be among the most accurate mice out there.
Yeah, it is older information, but I haven't looked for newer info. Have you got some links to any newer laser mice testing with regards to any acceleration/tracking issues?
EDIT: I know for a fact that I had acceleration on my old Logitech G9x laser mouse, I tested it, it was massively different at different mouse movement speeds. And there's zero such acceleration on my current optical mouse (Logitech G Pro). Whether the newer laser mice can completely remove any acceleration issues I do not know - this is the question at hand. I did quick google search and couldn't find any supporting evidence showing newer laser mice don't have acceleration issues.
The Goose
Senior Member
Posts: 2236
Senior Member
Posts: 2236
Posted on: 01/08/2019 12:53 PM
My last 2 mice have been M65, my current being the rgb, the first m65 the sniper button was too far forward, but the rgb version was much better and this Elite looks about the same, i am puzzled as to why they have gone back to the old logo though.
My last 2 mice have been M65, my current being the rgb, the first m65 the sniper button was too far forward, but the rgb version was much better and this Elite looks about the same, i am puzzled as to why they have gone back to the old logo though.
golbee112
Junior Member
Posts: 3
Junior Member
Posts: 3
Posted on: 01/08/2019 06:28 PM
Nice walls of text but this mouse doesn't use a laser sensor, just another variant of Pixart's top optical sensor.
Nice walls of text but this mouse doesn't use a laser sensor, just another variant of Pixart's top optical sensor.
Robbo9999
Senior Member
Posts: 1297
Senior Member
Posts: 1297
Posted on: 01/08/2019 07:28 PM
Perhaps keep your snarky comments to yourself, it perhaps shouldn't really have said "The new Elite model is armed with a staggering 18.000 DPI laser sensor" in the first paragraph of this article. But yes after I checked just now, you're right, tech specs on Corsair website show an optical sensor: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Gaming-Mice/FPS-Fast-Action-Mice/M65-RGB-ELITE/p/CH-9309011-NA
Probably no need to worry about acceleration issues then!
Nice walls of text but this mouse doesn't use a laser sensor, just another variant of Pixart's top optical sensor.
Perhaps keep your snarky comments to yourself, it perhaps shouldn't really have said "The new Elite model is armed with a staggering 18.000 DPI laser sensor" in the first paragraph of this article. But yes after I checked just now, you're right, tech specs on Corsair website show an optical sensor: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Gaming-Mice/FPS-Fast-Action-Mice/M65-RGB-ELITE/p/CH-9309011-NA
Probably no need to worry about acceleration issues then!
Khronikos
Senior Member
Posts: 710
Senior Member
Posts: 710
Posted on: 01/08/2019 08:03 PM
Love these Corsair mice. Will definitely look into this once mine wears out. I have the Sabre I think, which is really nice for my uses.
The sabre was improved a bit though. My first one crapped out way too soon.
Love these Corsair mice. Will definitely look into this once mine wears out. I have the Sabre I think, which is really nice for my uses.
The sabre was improved a bit though. My first one crapped out way too soon.
HeavyHemi
Senior Member
Posts: 6238
Senior Member
Posts: 6238
Posted on: 01/09/2019 10:28 AM
They are all optical sensors. The LIGHT SOURCE is the main difference. Older mice were slightly worse tracking with using laser illumination versus LED because the laser tended to give a slightly fuzzer return on materials like fabric pads. Whereas LED light sources do not penetrate as deeply so have less noise in the signal. That's the basics. As tech has progressed there's more difference from selecting your pad surface or gliders. I really do like my 2016 M65, which uses the Pixart PWM336x 12,000 DPI and surface cal.
They are all optical sensors. The LIGHT SOURCE is the main difference. Older mice were slightly worse tracking with using laser illumination versus LED because the laser tended to give a slightly fuzzer return on materials like fabric pads. Whereas LED light sources do not penetrate as deeply so have less noise in the signal. That's the basics. As tech has progressed there's more difference from selecting your pad surface or gliders. I really do like my 2016 M65, which uses the Pixart PWM336x 12,000 DPI and surface cal.
ZXRaziel
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Senior Member
Posts: 112
Posted on: 01/09/2019 11:38 AM
I have the older pro version , I like it just wish that the sniper button was more forward placed like the new model , and the older corsair logo with the sails is way better than the stupid tribal tattoo blob .
I have the older pro version , I like it just wish that the sniper button was more forward placed like the new model , and the older corsair logo with the sails is way better than the stupid tribal tattoo blob .
Robbo9999
Senior Member
Posts: 1297
Senior Member
Posts: 1297
Posted on: 01/09/2019 11:52 AM
Yes, the light source is the difference, and that is what people are referring to when they talk "optical" or "laser", with "optical" being an LED used, and with laser a infrared laser diode is used. The somewhat established notion that laser mice can suffer from acceleration issues and optical mice tend not to suffer from acceleration is a distinction that is made between the two. Like we've established though, this mouse is actually an optical mouse rather than a laser mouse, there was a error in the first paragraph of this article that referred to "laser".
They are all optical sensors. The LIGHT SOURCE is the main difference. Older mice were slightly worse tracking with using laser illumination versus LED because the laser tended to give a slightly fuzzer return on materials like fabric pads. Whereas LED light sources do not penetrate as deeply so have less noise in the signal. That's the basics. As tech has progressed there's more difference from selecting your pad surface or gliders. I really do like my 2016 M65, which uses the Pixart PWM336x 12,000 DPI and surface cal.
Yes, the light source is the difference, and that is what people are referring to when they talk "optical" or "laser", with "optical" being an LED used, and with laser a infrared laser diode is used. The somewhat established notion that laser mice can suffer from acceleration issues and optical mice tend not to suffer from acceleration is a distinction that is made between the two. Like we've established though, this mouse is actually an optical mouse rather than a laser mouse, there was a error in the first paragraph of this article that referred to "laser".
sykozis
Senior Member
Posts: 20983
Senior Member
Posts: 20983
Posted on: 01/13/2019 09:54 PM
I'm stuck between this and the IronClaw mouse....
So, @Hilbert Hagedoorn , how does this mouse compare to a Logitech G502 mouse?
I'm stuck between this and the IronClaw mouse....
So, @Hilbert Hagedoorn , how does this mouse compare to a Logitech G502 mouse?
The Goose
Senior Member
Posts: 2236
Senior Member
Posts: 2236
Posted on: 01/15/2019 01:27 AM
@hh, is the sniper a preset 150 dpi like the other M65 or it it programmable
@hh, is the sniper a preset 150 dpi like the other M65 or it it programmable
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Senior Member
Posts: 205
Nice review. I may have to go see if I can find one of these to try since you mentioned it's size. I have fairly large hands it seems since all of the mice made today are too small and uncomfortable for me. I'm still using a Microsoft Sidewinder gaming mouse because it is so comfortable in my hand.