That's unexpected. At least for me.

"Free world market totally unbiased and unregulated" What a joke.

Is the US trying to provoke a premature war with China pushing them against a wall the same way they did with Japan in the 1930s'?

Guess the filthy Commie's will need to make their own chips. Cold War still going apparently.

They already doesn't accept new orders from Huawei since mid-may this year, like the source you're pointing at say. Mid-September, Huawei will receive their last taped out products from TSMC. Their stock will probably hold until early next year.

spine:

Guess the filthy Commie's will need to make their own chips. Cold War still going apparently.

For Russia and China Cold War NEVER ended, West finally starting to wake up and realize there is no reason with these 2 regimes

How do you slow growth of someone who has magnitude more money/resources than you do? Prevent them from using resources. But that is temporary and shortsighted. It will force them to build more of their own. EU is smarter. It pulls cash from each country and then uses it to make some product of some country cheaper... destroying original production in other countries that paid for it.

half_empty_soul:

For Russia and China Cold War NEVER ended, West finally starting to wake up and realize there is no reason with these 2 regimes

That's pretty stupid point of view.

Maybe TSMC will build for Intel some chips on 5-7nm tech. http://www.emoticonr.com/design/yahoo/party.gif http://www.emoticonr.com/design/yahoo/giggle-or-hee-hee.gif

cryohellinc:

"Free world market totally unbiased and unregulated" What a joke.

No joke at all. If anything, they should be treated with sanctions or anything else that a "normal" dictatorship is treated. We are obviously not doing enough about that yet. As for them having more cash or being more healthy economically, that is not the case, and probably won't be for a long time still. The biggest mistake of the US was electing Trump who took back the TPP, which was meant to choke China out of the Pacific.

PrMinisterGR:

No joke at all. If anything, they should be treated with sanctions or anything else that a "normal" dictatorship is treated. We are obviously not doing enough about that yet. As for them having more cash or being more healthy economically, that is not the case, and probably won't be for a long time still. The biggest mistake of the US was electing Trump who took back the TPP, which was meant to choke China out of the Pacific.

I do not think that government that can't care less about its population would be "choked" out of anything through doing direct harm to their population. All damage dealt to China in any way is not dealt to controlling party, but to general population. At best, China can be insulted, because for China "face" is important.

Remeber Bloomshit like a year ago? Glad to see that the gloves are off, so that we don't have to listen to "leaks" from all kinds of security experts and "concerned" govt agencies about nebulous Huaweii backdoors, while all the real-world data about backdoors and rogue actors points to completely opposite direction.

PrMinisterGR:

No joke at all. If anything, they should be treated with sanctions or anything else that a "normal" dictatorship is treated. We are obviously not doing enough about that yet. As for them having more cash or being more healthy economically, that is not the case, and probably won't be for a long time still. The biggest mistake of the US was electing Trump who took back the TPP, which was meant to choke China out of the Pacific.

As @Fox2232 pointed out - the only ones suffering, in this case, are the common people. Leaders of the "Regime" will always live in luxury and have access to everything they want. We have countless examples of this across the world. The country I was born in, USSR, is a perfect case example for this. Sanctions non-stop, resulting in a collapse of the corrupt government (uncle Gorbachev loved bribes - he even had a nickname "Misha the envelope"). When most of the population through its time lived in borderline poverty, while a tiny few lived the luxurious life nobody can even imagine. What has changed? US policy hasn't changed - proxy wars and coups. All of which, 95% of the time result, in even more suffering for the common folk in those countries. US lives by the need to have an external "common enemy". This time, however, it's not USSR or some banana-republic they are dealing with. China is a massive hybrid of capitalism and communism, which they have created themselves. Not only they have tech on par with the western world (or even better in some cases), biggest army and a strong economy - recently they have gained access to resources of Russia. So no matter what sanctions will be put on them - they will get out of it, and the power struggle will continue.

What was really disturbing for me ... was that last weekend I bought a phone for my wife. And she had a Huawei P9 Lite and wanted another Huawei as she liked it . But then I realized that Huawei does not offer Google Play anymore ... and you need to bypass that with some backdoor exploits. ... . So I ended up buying her something else 🙁

cryohellinc:

As @Fox2232 pointed out - the only ones suffering, in this case, are the common people. Leaders of the "Regime" will always live in luxury and have access to everything they want.

You could argue that declaring war against Germany meant that the average German would suffer. Situations reach points where they need to be stopped. The Germans invaded other countries and that's why everyone decided it was time to do something. Like with the Chinese now, nobody gives a crap if a shitty regime commits crimes against humanity on their own people.

cryohellinc:

We have countless examples of this across the world. The country I was born in, USSR, is a perfect case example for this. Sanctions non-stop, resulting in a collapse of the corrupt government (uncle Gorbachev loved bribes - he even had a nickname "Misha the envelope"). When most of the population through its time lived in borderline poverty, while a tiny few lived the luxurious life nobody can even imagine. What has changed?

The USSR is literally no more, that's what happened. The USSR wasn't trade embargoed wholesale, no matter what the internal propaganda might have said. The Cold War was a weird game. This is an interesting read: https://www.americanforeignrelations.com/E-N/Embargoes-and-Sanctions-Cold-war-sanctions.html

cryohellinc:

US policy hasn't changed - proxy wars and coups. All of which, 95% of the time result, in even more suffering for the common folk in those countries. US lives by the need to have an external "common enemy". This time, however, it's not USSR or some banana-republic they are dealing with. China is a massive hybrid of capitalism and communism, which they have created themselves. Not only they have tech on par with the western world (or even better in some cases), biggest army and a strong economy - recently they have gained access to resources of Russia.

I agree for the most part, especially what happened in the 60s-90s. I don't agree anymore, honestly. I cannot see why it's better to have "leaders" who are basically populists owned by Putin or the Chinese (like Orban or Trump), and expressimg the will of the "people" who are literally lead by idiotic social media clearly manipulated by oligarchs and dictators. I would rather have any American president over my head than Putin or Xi, thank you, at least he can be eventually voted out.

cryohellinc:

So no matter what sanctions will be put on them - they will get out of it, and the power struggle will continue.

Historically, regimes based on people or specific castes of elites, are easy to topple, even from within. The internal message in China by the CCP focuses always on "stability". The truth is that China is as large and nationally diverse as Europe, and the CCP's power hangs by a thread at places, hence their treatment of ethnic minorities (like the concentration camps they have in their north right now). The more they pose externally to project "strength", the weaker they are internally. This is like political science 101.

PrMinisterGR:

Historically, regimes based on people or specific castes of elites, are easy to topple, even from within. The internal message in China by the CCP focuses always on "stability". The truth is that China is as large and nationally diverse as Europe, and the CCP's power hangs by a thread at places, hence their treatment of ethnic minorities (like the concentration camps they have in their north right now). The more they pose externally to project "strength", the weaker they are internally. This is like political science 101.

This is about Huaweii and TSMC. More precisely it's about Huaweii and USA govt. It's a rather complex issue, but it has literally nothing to do with "treatment of ethnic minorities". Have a go at it if you wish: https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nato-arms-industry-cold-war/

IchimA:

What was really disturbing for me ... was that last weekend I bought a phone for my wife. And she had a Huawei P9 Lite and wanted another Huawei as she liked it . But then I realized that Huawei does not offer Google Play anymore ... and you need to bypass that with some backdoor exploits. ... . So I ended up buying her something else 🙁

If you like Huawei phones, try a Xiaomi Redmi. Just as good and a similar great value.

PrMinisterGR:

Like with the Chinese now, nobody gives a crap if a shitty regime commits crimes against humanity on their own people.

Oh is that so? Countries tend to notice only when it fits them - Saudi Arabia committing crimes against their own people, or yet-another-white-farmer-gets-killed-in-south-africa. West is all cool and happy, as long as it won't fit the agenda it won't get any news coverage. Political murder of #insert name# in a #insert country name# that doesn't align with west political views = 24/7 media coverage. Also define me what a "shitty regime" is - any country can be called that way, it's just a matter of perspective.

PrMinisterGR:

The USSR is literally no more, that's what happened.

You don't say. Damn.

PrMinisterGR:

The USSR wasn't trade embargoed wholesale, no matter what the internal propaganda might have said.

There were trade embargoes through its whole history, escalating in 80's which. Most notably on natural resource exports, such as oil, that were the last nail into the coffin. Slap on top of it degenerated internal communist policy and iron curtain, with the majority of the budget going into the military instead of civil.

PrMinisterGR:

I don't agree anymore, honestly. I cannot see why it's better to have "leaders" who are basically populists owned by Putin or the Chinese (like Orban or Trump), and expressimg the will of the "people" who are literally lead by idiotic social media clearly manipulated by oligarchs and dictators. I would rather have any American president over my head than Putin or Xi, thank you, at least he can be eventually voted out.

And on the opposite side, you have what - leaders that are owned by the capitalists sitting in Washington? Lovely. "and expressimg the will of the "people" who are literally lead by idiotic social media clearly manipulated by oligarchs and dictators" - Sounds like what is happening in the US right now. Manipulation of people, led by social media and idiotic leaders. I hope you are being super sarcastic right now. " I would rather have any American president over my head than Putin or Xi, thank you, at least he can be eventually voted out " - Ah yes, the "democracy" of US with two parties and predetermined election results. And when it doesn't go as planned - then all of the elections are rigged by Moscow or China. Hillarious westerner logic you got there. Your freedom of choice is an illusion.

PrMinisterGR:

Historically, regimes based on people or specific castes of elites, are easy to topple, even from within.

That's every country in the world. "Democrats" and "Republicans" cough cough.

PrMinisterGR:

The internal message in China by the CCP focuses always on "stability". The truth is that China is as large and nationally diverse as Europe, and the CCP's power hangs by a thread at places, hence their treatment of ethnic minorities (like the concentration camps they have in their north right now). The more they pose externally to project "strength", the weaker they are internally. This is like political science 101.

Welcome to a commie system. Except China isn't really a commie system - it's some distorted hybrid form of capitalism and communism at this point with all of their "benefits" - hence why it won't oblige the same rules as classic commies, and neither follow the same outcome.

Fox2232:

EU is smarter. It pulls cash from each country and then uses it to make some product of some country cheaper... destroying original production in other countries that paid for it.

Well yeah... that's what China was trying to do, and has done for decades. That's why China is synonymous with knock-off products. The only difference with Huawei is they're big enough with actually compelling products where the US government wants to step in.

cryohellinc:

As @Fox2232 pointed out - the only ones suffering, in this case, are the common people. Leaders of the "Regime" will always live in luxury and have access to everything they want.

If the people suffer, they will be harder to control by those currently in power. The more laws are enforced, the more likely people will rebel or seek new leadership.

China is a massive hybrid of capitalism and communism, which they have created themselves. Not only they have tech on par with the western world (or even better in some cases), biggest army and a strong economy - recently they have gained access to resources of Russia.

Not sure if by "they" you mean the US, but China has always been an economic powerhouse for thousands of years. Sure, it has exploded in wealth within the past century, but I'm pretty sure China was never a weak country. Military size at this point is moot. Either Russia or China are powerful enough to wipe out half the planet. Getting a bigger military is a wasted expense; same goes for the US.

schmidtbag:

Not sure if by "they" you mean the US, but China has always been an economic powerhouse for thousands of years. Sure, it has exploded in wealth within the past century, but I'm pretty sure China was never a weak country. Military size at this point is moot. Either Russia or China are powerful enough to wipe out half the planet. Getting a bigger military is a wasted expense; same goes for the US.

All of the Russian ICBMs are so outdated at this point (same for the US ones actually) and unmaintained that they will have a higher chance of wiping themselves out than the enemy. The Russian army is a sad joke at this point. Only enough to be used against their own people, and as a fringe region boogeyman. 😀

cryohellinc:

As @Fox2232 pointed out - the only ones suffering, in this case, are the common people. Leaders of the "Regime" will always live in luxury and have access to everything they want. We have countless examples of this across the world. The country I was born in, USSR, is a perfect case example for this. Sanctions non-stop, resulting in a collapse of the corrupt government (uncle Gorbachev loved bribes - he even had a nickname "Misha the envelope"). When most of the population through its time lived in borderline poverty, while a tiny few lived the luxurious life nobody can even imagine. What has changed? US policy hasn't changed - proxy wars and coups. All of which, 95% of the time result, in even more suffering for the common folk in those countries. US lives by the need to have an external "common enemy". This time, however, it's not USSR or some banana-republic they are dealing with. China is a massive hybrid of capitalism and communism, which they have created themselves. Not only they have tech on par with the western world (or even better in some cases), biggest army and a strong economy - recently they have gained access to resources of Russia. So no matter what sanctions will be put on them - they will get out of it, and the power struggle will continue.

The people are the ones who support the regime, so if the general population suffers, their support for that regime can lessen. It's the same as with open war, when two countries fight it's not a fight between two militaries while the civilians just pretend like nothing happens. You fight against every man and woman who go to work and produce wealth that feeds and supplies the army, you fight against their support for the government policy to continue the fight. If anything, the west is too shortsighted in their dealings with China. We have shipped there our technology and our manufacturing, because it was cheap to do so and that looks amazing in quarterly reports. China looks at it from a long term perspective, what will happen in decades or even centuries. Now China is already making claims to the territories of all their neighbors and are in the process of colonization of Africa, not to mention extermination of minorities. Trying to appease them does nothing to stop or even slow them down. It must really be a firm stand against the authoritative regime, with sanctions as the least of the measures. West still leads in tech which China still needs and their production is still consumed largely by wealthy citizens of the western world. Remove both of these and their lifestyle will have to change rather dramatically. BTW, Russia is exactly the same. Since 90s they have fought in several wars, often for land and they got some every time.