just my point: why complain about renaming??? since as long i am in computer stuff it has always been like that the old high end become medium and there is only the high end who is replaced by the bleeding edge GPU. btw it's not an AMD only syndrom: there is still Kepler in the actual line of NVidia

just my point: why complain about renaming??? since as long i am in computer stuff it has always been like that the old high end become medium and there is only the high end who is replaced by the bleeding edge GPU. btw it's not an AMD only syndrom: there is still Kepler in the actual line of NVidia

Mostly because AMD has Tonga with a bunch of enhancements just sitting there, and they aren't using it, at least according to my understanding. Which btw is becoming frustrating. I can't even keep track of all the rumors because every single new one has a thread with different conversations in each one all leading to different conclusions. I feel like when a new GPU is coming out, all the rumors should just be consolidated to a giant rumor/leak thread in the news section.

I remember the HD 2900XT launch. It didn't take the performance crown despite the improved memory bandwidth, so Ati put a really agressive price on it. If this Fury X is not better than a GTX 980ti, at least I expect an atractive price.

Mostly because AMD has Tonga with a bunch of enhancements just sitting there, and they aren't using it, at least according to my understanding. Which btw is becoming frustrating. I can't even keep track of all the rumors because every single new one has a thread with different conversations in each one all leading to different conclusions. I feel like when a new GPU is coming out, all the rumors should just be consolidated to a giant rumor/leak thread in the news section.

If the Tonga refresh was made for 16/14nm, it would be very difficult/costly to port it back to 28nm, if it was at all possible. Fury, being the flagship, may have been prepared for both outcomes, especially since the passage to 16/14nm will happen, just a bit further down the road.

If the Tonga refresh was made for 16/14nm, it would be very difficult/costly to port it back to 28nm, if it was at all possible. Fury, being the flagship, may have been prepared for both outcomes, especially since the passage to 16/14nm will happen, just a bit further down the road.

I mean Tonga already exists in 28nm, the 285. And 20nm not being usable isn't something that happened recently, it was known to be unusable in 2012, Nvidia said it in 2012. It's literally the reason why Intel/TSMC/GF/Samsung all prepared to switch to Trigate early. They knew 20nm was bad and planar would only get worse. I think Apple was the only company who built a working product on it. I don't know what AMD's reasoning is. Deep down inside I still think these "rebrands" are Tonga and everyone is just getting it wrong. But Idk, just makes no sense to me. Unless they didn't feel the performance gains from Tonga would actually make sense to to produce a whole new series on, monetarily.

ffs whats written on the chip, dant care bout pcb

Its not economically possible to bring out new architectures every year. It takes multiple years investment to bring a prodcut to market. If it tanks, you lose a boatload of cash (AMD). AMD have been innovating, and going in the right direction, just without the same resources as the competition. Considering that, they are doing very well technologically. No ones counting on anyone buying bad products, just dont go sh*tting on their parade because you can. There are enough Nvidia and Intel fanboy's around to do that. DX12 is the future, and its about as close as one can get right now, without tripping over it. AMD was quite competetive in the 5000, 6000 and 7000 series GPU's. May not have had huge market share, but they were competetive. Speculation is good, it can be dissapointing, but thats not AMD's fault.

Any product can be competitive, it is just a matter of pricing. AMD's problem is that they have to cut their prices too much to remain competitive, hurting them financially. On DX12, yes it is close. But how far are we from the first games written for it? If it proves to be a wait long enough, it could mean enough time for nVidia's reaction. As I said before, I have two GTX980 but, if I were about to upgrade/buy a new system, I would wait for another week or two.:)

I still find it hard to believe that with only 1.5 months till Win10/DX12 release, AMD would release a whole new line of cards with most of them sporting DX12 support of a lesser degree than the competitor's cards from the previous year. AMD likes to fancy itself one of the fathers of major DX12 features due to Mantle, rightfully, so it just makes zilch sense. For some reason my video cards have been from AMD and NVidia alternately, but man AMD is making it hard this time. I desperately need to replace my ancient card soon, though. I very much hope this proves to be wrong and they did something to the chips.

I still find it hard to believe that with only 1.5 months till Win10/DX12 release, AMD would release a whole new line of cards with most of them sporting DX12 support of a lesser degree than the competitor's cards from the previous year. AMD likes to fancy itself one of the fathers of major DX12 features due to Mantle, rightfully, so it just makes zilch sense. For some reason my video cards have been from AMD and NVidia alternately, but man AMD is making it hard this time. I desperately need to replace my ancient card soon, though. I very much hope this proves to be wrong and they did something to the chips.

If you have GPU listed on left, you should get r9-285 4GB or r9-380(x) 4GB as it has all those new things AMD made till that release. As that looks like your targeted price range and gtx960 is horrific in comparison (it has worst performance per $ around that price, even gtx970 beats it). And about DX12_1 both AMD and nV have certain features done on software level without having actual specialized transistor set doing that. Or they have more universal part of GPU doing few different things. It is hard to judge which card will be stronger under DX12 as whole till you have final game out there running. +DX12 as tool will deliver its main benefit (better CPU use) for all GPUs compatible +At time Games will start using DX12_1, this HW will be obsolete Tomorrow, 8k, ...

I mean Tonga already exists in 28nm, the 285. And 20nm not being usable isn't something that happened recently, it was known to be unusable in 2012, Nvidia said it in 2012. It's literally the reason why Intel/TSMC/GF/Samsung all prepared to switch to Trigate early. They knew 20nm was bad and planar would only get worse. I think Apple was the only company who built a working product on it. I don't know what AMD's reasoning is. Deep down inside I still think these "rebrands" are Tonga and everyone is just getting it wrong. But Idk, just makes no sense to me. Unless they didn't feel the performance gains from Tonga would actually make sense to to produce a whole new series on, monetarily.

Not on 28nm anyway. It might have been viable on 20nm if that was good. 20nm debacle screwed up everyone (except intel of course).

2 years waiting for Rebrand 28nm? 🙁 Come on AMD give us the real card 14nm Now is the time 🙂

I still find it hard to believe that with only 1.5 months till Win10/DX12 release, AMD would release a whole new line of cards with most of them sporting DX12 support of a lesser degree than the competitor's cards from the previous year. AMD likes to fancy itself one of the fathers of major DX12 features due to Mantle, rightfully, so it just makes zilch sense. For some reason my video cards have been from AMD and NVidia alternately, but man AMD is making it hard this time. I desperately need to replace my ancient card soon, though. I very much hope this proves to be wrong and they did something to the chips.

I don't think AMD had the choice. I really wanted these chips to be a refresh, even though the chances of that were very very slim on 28nm. No one really knows what direction DX12 will really take yet. There could be parts that are useless, or need fundamental corrections or upgrades. It would be bad to base a whole generation on features that aren't available or set in stone yet. AMD played that game with Vista and DX10, they had the most compliant card, but certain parts were removed from the spec. Not saying it will happen this time, but as with all DX generation advances, all our current cards will be obsolete sooner rather than later. If I was buying now, i'd get a stopgap card in a few weeks after the full AMD reveal. Get a really good card when 16/14nm arrive. They WILL be game changers, literally.

If you have GPU listed on left, you should get r9-285 4GB or r9-380(x) 4GB as it has all those new things AMD made till that release. As that looks like your targeted price range and gtx960 is horrific in comparison (it has worst performance per $ around that price, even gtx970 beats it). And about DX12_1 both AMD and nV have certain features done on software level without having actual specialized transistor set doing that. Or they have more universal part of GPU doing few different things. It is hard to judge which card will be stronger under DX12 as whole till you have final game out there running. +DX12 as tool will deliver its main benefit (better CPU use) for all GPUs compatible +At time Games will start using DX12_1, this HW will be obsolete Tomorrow, 8k, ...

Sod 8K (QUHD, really) lol. Let UHD get a foot in the door first 🙂 There are at least two games being developped with DX12 support specifically. Whether they will be anything more than glorified techdemo's is to be seen. I don't see DX12 getting anywhere unless the consoles use it. XBone, I can see using it, at least partially. Then again, some effects might just be better implemented/more efficient in DX12, with the same visual output as DX11. I don't know.

Hmm...

AMD likes to fancy itself one of the fathers of major DX12 features due to Mantle, rightfully, so it just makes zilch sense.

Not very rightfully. Those kind of "close to the metal" APIs have existed in consoles since stone age and the current X1 modified DX has been close to DX12 from day 1. When developers started whining about this issue on PC AMD created Mantle to go past DX11.x to deliver those close to the metal improvements to performance. Of course they hoped developers to utilize that to get serious competitive advantage in software agaist Nvidia because they really cannot compete in hardware anymore. However it seems developers didn't care about that much because DX12 is coming and is much more videly supported.

Seems to be a lack of "X" cards from the leaks that we have seen so far. Rumor was that the full Tonga (Tonga XT? ) was going to be the 380X. But nothing leaked from the vendors to show that a 380X exists, so far. Also no 370X. Perhaps AMD has a plan for these. Yeah, I know, but i can dream. 🙂 GPUs are probably not going to make or break AMD. ZEN will. Zen has to be a success or AMD is done. A success does not mean it has to beat Intel, just close the gap significantly.

Not very rightfully. Those kind of "close to the metal" APIs have existed in consoles since stone age and the current X1 modified DX has been close to DX12 from day 1. When developers started whining about this issue on PC AMD created Mantle to go past DX11.x to deliver those close to the metal improvements to performance. Of course they hoped developers to utilize that to get serious competitive advantage in software agaist Nvidia because they really cannot compete in hardware anymore. However it seems developers didn't care about that much because DX12 is coming and is much more videly supported.

Thats a good point about the XB1 having been probably developed with DX12 in mind, since they obviously knew about it before anyone else. DX12 is set to be huge, since almost everybody should be moving to Win10. I'm still on Win7U, hated Win8 with a vengeance, still do. But i'll be hopping to Win10 on my gaming machine, for sure.

Seems to be a lack of "X" cards from the leaks that we have seen so far. Rumor was that the full Tonga (Tonga XT? ) was going to be the 380X. But nothing leaked from the vendors to show that a 380X exists, so far. Also no 370X. Perhaps AMD has a plan for these. Yeah, I know, but i can dream. 🙂 GPUs are probably not going to make or break AMD. ZEN will. Zen has to be a success or AMD is done. A success does not mean it has to beat Intel, just close the gap significantly.

There haven't been that many leaks at all really, and people have been focussing on the Fury/Fiji cards. Hilbert mentioned that his Fury/X would arrive sometime this week, so i expect they kept them til the last minute for tweaks, and or leak control. Could be the same with the TongaXT. edit : I agree Zen has to be good this time round, but with HBM onboard certain chips, even as a LLCache, we can imagine the possibilites 🙂

There haven't been that many leaks at all really, and people have been focussing on the Fury/Fiji cards. Hilbert mentioned that his Fury/X would arrive sometime this week, so i expect they kept them til the last minute for tweaks, and or leak control. Could be the same with the TongaXT. edit : I agree Zen has to be good this time round, but with HBM onboard certain chips, even as a LLCache, we can imagine the possibilites 🙂

Yup would definitely be good for them. I'm hoping to replace my Xeon X5650 @ 4GHz with some Zen 🙂

I still find it hard to believe that with only 1.5 months till Win10/DX12 release, AMD would release a whole new line of cards with most of them sporting DX12 support of a lesser degree than the competitor's cards from the previous year. AMD likes to fancy itself one of the fathers of major DX12 features due to Mantle, rightfully, so it just makes zilch sense. For some reason my video cards have been from AMD and NVidia alternately, but man AMD is making it hard this time. I desperately need to replace my ancient card soon, though. I very much hope this proves to be wrong and they did something to the chips.

pretty sure additional price cuts will come for some of these high-end cards from both companies. so it wont take a big pinch from your wallet and then still have some left over to get the real next-gen cards some time next year or the year after that. heck, if i were u i would hold out until a little longer until November/December.

They're still making money off you. Whether you give it to them directly or indirectly.

You trolling bruh? Common sense dictates common sense..... you're either severely lacking or obliviously trolling Don't even know why I'm humoring you but, if I bought your 970, unless you take some of that money I paid you and PayPal it to Nvidia directly, that's the only way they would see my dollar.

Did Nvidia run over your dog or something? :3eyes:

If you're a consumer it's almost impossible to try to have principles, but I still try, in regards to Nvidia it basically this simple, I don't want to give my money to a company who's consistently trying to force it out of my hand with their business tactics as opposed to one who tries to earn it from me. I won't buy Apple because they refuse to ditch and still continue to use factories where workers are jumping to their deaths off the rooftops over poor working conditions. I'm a big basketball fanatic and player yet I still don't buy Jordans where Nike controls the shoe releases to the point, where on a regular basis there are murder/robberies with each new Jordan releases in multiple US cities.... anyway, etc... if you don't get the point, then can't explain any better than that.

You trolling bruh? Common sense dictates common sense..... you're either severely lacking or obliviously trolling Don't even know why I'm humoring you but, if I bought your 970, unless you take some of that money I paid you and PayPal it to Nvidia directly, that's the only way they would see my dollar. What he said is true you're giving them money indirectly chances are that the guy u bought the card from is going to get another NVidia card so some of that money is funding that.