Well.... I will never put another dollar into Nvidias pockets, but AMD is and has been jerking us around for too long now. I will wait until Windows 10 to see what sort of drivers AMD comes out with, and how Fury X performs.... and if it's the same old story, I'm purchasing second hand Nvidia cards from now on, at least that way they don't make any money off me, that's on principle alone

Well I'm stuck now.... I will never put another dollar into Nvidias pockets, but AMD is and has been jerking us around for too long now. I will wait until Windows 10 to see what sort of drivers AMD comes out with, and how Fury X performs.... and if it's the same old story, I'm purchasing second hand Nvidia cards from now on, at least that way they don't make any money off me, that's on principle alone

They're still making money off you. Whether you give it to them directly or indirectly.

Think we would all welcome some competition but this is just not the way it's meant to be played AMD... New series is out and only 1 single product will get upgrade. And most likely this will be out in very low numbers and high price even for AMD as their yields appear to be horrendous. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Me, I'm waiting on the 490X. It'll be the same as the 290X and the 390X... ...but I really like the number 4.

Another thread about this, lets beat a dead horse.

Me, I'm waiting on the 490X. It'll be the same as the 290X and the 390X... ...but I really like the number 4.

Just keep going green and let em control the market.. And keep kissing nvidia in the but... And let em empty your Wallet while they laugh the **** at you.

Well.... I will never put another dollar into Nvidias pockets, but AMD is and has been jerking us around for too long now. I will wait until Windows 10 to see what sort of drivers AMD comes out with, and how Fury X performs.... and if it's the same old story, I'm purchasing second hand Nvidia cards from now on, at least that way they don't make any money off me, that's on principle alone

Did Nvidia run over your dog or something? :3eyes:

Just keep going green and let em control the market.. And keep kissing nvidia in the but... And let em empty your Wallet while they laugh the **** at you.

I have an interesting counterpoint: So, why didn't you buy the inferior, outdated product just so you could support future market competition? Shouldn't you take your own advice and be giving money to AMD so they can compete rather than letting Intel, who clearly control the CPU market, empty your wallet? They weren't exactly giving away those 6 core chips... Just sayin... 🤓

I am still rather expecting/hoping these cards support a few changes like GCN 1.2 and some power efficiency improvements... but I must admit my hope is starting to wane a touch.

There is a very good 'excuse' for these to be rebrands, albeit 'rebrand' being a false moniker since they aren't direct rebrands, but different steppings of existing GPU's, with other tweaks along the way. You do realise that we're actually supposed to be on the 20 nm process now, but that was cancelled due to it 'not being ideal'? This was an issue outside of AMD's control. So, AMD had updated hardware designs that we should be seeing now that simply could not be used. Nvidia probably got around this because they may have worked out a contingency sooner, or they simply intended to skip the 20 nm process to begin with (seeing as it was a short lived process). Remember, the process issues are out of AMD's, and NVIDIA's hands. Alternative scenario: AMD did actually bring out 20 nm GPU's on the new process. Then, 12 months later they bring out yet another new architecture, this time based on the 14/16 nm process (which they're going to do!). The same people complaining about rebrands would then be complaining that the new architecture is too soon after the last, and they have to upgrade again or whatever. So, if NVIDIA intended to go 20 nm, but found themselves in the same situation as AMD, how did they manage to bring out the new architecture? Well, they probably found out at the same time, but could better afford the contingency plan of designing an upgraded 28 nm chip with some of the 20 nm stuff 'backported' to it. Just a guess, but it does seem that something along those lines has happened. I'd be quite happy to go R9-480X (or whatever it is called) once it comes out, depending on price. I'd be looking at a full upgrade... and I'd be quite keen to go AMD Zen if it is as good as claimed. The big issue there would be whether to go desktop APU or 8-core FX, but that is a different matter. APU+discrete card will likely be much faster than just CPU+discrete, due to new process delegation routines. This is supposedly available under DirectX 12, however it has to be written for (which many games probably won't be, if any are at all). AMD are supposedly, from last I heard, working on a separate driver based system for delegation between APU and discrete card. This could potentially be faster than the DirectX implementation, and work across all graphics routines. Anyways, there are interesting times ahead. The lull this round isn't really that bad, especially when you take into consideration that the rebrands really aren't their fault this time. It couldn't be helped!

20nm being skipped isn't like a last minute thing. Nvidia publicly stated it wasn't going to work back in 2012. AMD had to have been aware of that too. It's more likely that AMD just doesn't want to waste R&D dollars on a new architecture when it isn't necessary. A slightly revised 290x with 8GB of ram is more than capable of competing with a 980 at the right price.

Another thread about this, lets beat a dead horse.

http://marccortez.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/beating-a-dead-horse.jpeg :D

Rip amd Well let's hope Apple buys them out, because the way things are going if they ain't competitive soon they shall fall from grace like Twitter etc is. You see there is no more free money and investors are asking for a return these days or they are dumping! 😛uke2: AMD is in dire financial straits, they need a miracle to recover and I was hoping this was it. Looks like they won't last till the end of 2016, especially with Pascal. The nerds can argue like they do in Silicon Valley, but investors are demanding returns :banana:

Alternative scenario: AMD did actually bring out 20 nm GPU's on the new process. Then, 12 months later they bring out yet another new architecture, this time based on the 14/16 nm process (which they're going to do!). The same people complaining about rebrands would then be complaining that the new architecture is too soon after the last, and they have to upgrade again or whatever.

You must be out of your mind if you think someone would complain about a new generation of cards hitting the streets just 12 months after the previous one.

You must be out of your mind if you think someone would complain about a new generation of cards hitting the streets just 12 months after the previous one.

People have complained about less.

Well let's hope Apple buys them out, because the way things are going if they ain't competitive soon they shall fall from grace like Twitter etc is. You see there is no more free money and investors are asking for a return these days or they are dumping! 😛uke2: AMD is in dire financial straits, they need a miracle to recover and I was hoping this was it. Looks like they won't last till the end of 2016, especially with Pascal. The nerds can argue like they do in Silicon Valley, but investors are demanding returns :banana:

facepalm

Well let's hope Apple buys them out, because the way things are going if they ain't competitive soon they shall fall from grace like Twitter etc is. You see there is no more free money and investors are asking for a return these days or they are dumping! 😛uke2: AMD is in dire financial straits, they need a miracle to recover and I was hoping this was it. Looks like they won't last till the end of 2016, especially with Pascal. The nerds can argue like they do in Silicon Valley, but investors are demanding returns :banana:

Basically then we would have two apples in control of the GPU industry treating their costumers like garbage. No thanks. Then I would rather just stop using computers all together and move far far in to the woods instead.

People have complained about less.

Yeah, maybe. I, for instance, complain when my espresso is not at the right temperature, but that's not really the point. To think that such an argument was considered by AMD so as to justify their strategy is ridiculous. For all the passion and anger we see in this nVidia x ATi and Intel x AMD foruns, there are enough FACTS (benchmarks and overall sales) to have us all stop discussing about the following: - since Athlon 64's days, AMD has lost the upper hand in the CPU war. Of course, it does not mean that Intel wins every battle. But it does mean that on the enthusiast space Intel is alone. - since 5000 series, AMD has also lost the GPU war. This case is particularly interesting because in the wake of the 5000 series, nVidia launched terrible products, the GTX470/80. However, one generation later the battle was even and by the time of the 600 series, nVidia was on the lead again. If you want to call me fanboy, OK, but just check if your arguments do not relly on expectations about future DX12 performance of games that will be launched 1 year from now, based on beta drivers. Also, check if you have not said the same back when DX11 was about to be launched. I do want more competition, and do hope Fury and Zen are great, if for nothing more, to put pressure on their competitors so we all have better pricing or better products. But don't count on me (and in fact, on anybody else) to overpay for bad products just to give them a hand.

Yeah, maybe. I, for instance, complain when my espresso is not at the right temperature, but that's not really the point. To think that such an argument was considered by AMD so as to justify their strategy is ridiculous. For all the passion and anger we see in this nVidia x ATi and Intel x AMD foruns, there are enough FACTS (benchmarks and overall sales) to have us all stop discussing about the following: - since Athlon 64's days, AMD has lost the upper hand in the CPU war. Of course, it does not mean that Intel wins every battle. But it does mean that on the enthusiast space Intel is alone. - since 5000 series, AMD has also lost the GPU war. This case is particularly interesting because in the wake of the 5000 series, nVidia launched terrible products, the GTX470/80. However, one generation later the battle was even and by the time of the 600 series, nVidia was on the lead again. If you want to call me fanboy, OK, but just check if your arguments do not relly on expectations about future DX12 performance of games that will be launched 1 year from now, based on beta drivers. Also, check if you have not said the same back when DX11 was about to be launched. I do want more competition, and do hope Fury and Zen are great, if for nothing more, to put pressure on their competitors so we all have better pricing or better products. But don't count on me (and in fact, on anybody else) to overpay for bad products just to give them a hand.

Actually AMD's loss goes back before the 5000 series, to the R600 series (2900XT). That's where the marketshare started shifting and AMD never recovered. People look at forums like these and think that they are relevant when it comes to overall sales, but they aren't. The vast majority of GPU purchases are through OEM's and Nvidia has dominated sales there since the G80. Which is funny, because ATi was notoriously an OEM monster and it was Nvidia who pushed GPU's into the consumer space. That's why I find it amusing that people think that a single series is going to somehow turn it around for AMD. They need multiple consecutive products that are not only competitive, but are actually dominate in the market. People keep fearing that AMD is just going to close shop, I doubt it will happen. They will sell off their divisions, someone will buy the graphics division and continue to compete against Nvidia. There is too much market for their not to be multiple players in graphics. But this whole idea that I should buy an AMD card to help support a company that has continued to make horrible financial decisions is not something I support. If they come out with a good card, sure I'll buy it. But its a company, I don't feel bad for it.

Its not economically possible to bring out new architectures every year. It takes multiple years investment to bring a prodcut to market. If it tanks, you lose a boatload of cash (AMD). AMD have been innovating, and going in the right direction, just without the same resources as the competition. Considering that, they are doing very well technologically. No ones counting on anyone buying bad products, just dont go sh*tting on their parade because you can. There are enough Nvidia and Intel fanboy's around to do that. DX12 is the future, and its about as close as one can get right now, without tripping over it. AMD was quite competetive in the 5000, 6000 and 7000 series GPU's. May not have had huge market share, but they were competetive. Speculation is good, it can be dissapointing, but thats not AMD's fault.

Well let's hope Apple buys them out, because the way things are going if they ain't competitive soon they shall fall from grace like Twitter etc is. You see there is no more free money and investors are asking for a return these days or they are dumping! 😛uke2: AMD is in dire financial straits, they need a miracle to recover and I was hoping this was it. Looks like they won't last till the end of 2016, especially with Pascal. The nerds can argue like they do in Silicon Valley, but investors are demanding returns :banana:

You must be out of your mind.

Its not economically possible to bring out new architectures every year. It takes multiple years investment to bring a prodcut to market. If it tanks, you lose a boatload of cash (AMD). AMD have been innovating, and going in the right direction, just without the same resources as the competition. Considering that, they are doing very well technologically. No ones counting on anyone buying bad products, just dont go sh*tting on their parade because you can. There are enough Nvidia and Intel fanboy's around to do that. DX12 is the future, and its about as close as one can get right now, without tripping over it. AMD was quite competetive in the 5000, 6000 and 7000 series GPU's. May not have had huge market share, but they were competetive. Speculation is good, it can be dissapointing, but thats not AMD's fault.

Lets hope that the 3xx series of GPUs is the end of the rebrands and the 4xx series starts the HBM cards and a whole new architecture.