Power went out for 1 hour at a Micron memory factory will DRAM prices go up?

anticupidon

2020-12-05 10:27

At this point in time I will shrug and move on, because I don't t what's worst: Believing in market manipulation conspiracy or denying it. Because choosing sides guarantees you a special place and some name calling. Not here, but internet is anything but civil and polite. Oh well, my favourite SSD and RAM manufacturer became not so favourite anymore.

#5862256

wavetrex

2020-12-05 10:30

I don't get it... don't such critical facilities have some kind of generator backup in place for when power is disrupted? Heck, if I were in the business of making billions of dollars of silicon products I would build my own gas/coal power plant right next to the factory ! This is ridiculous... somebody trips a switch and suddenly massive losses.

#5862259

HybOj

2020-12-05 10:45

Wavetrex, I will correct you... somebody trips a switch and suddenly - massive profits

#5862273

anticupidon

2020-12-05 11:03

wavetrex:

I don't get it... don't such critical facilities have some kind of generator backup in place for when power is disrupted? Heck, if I were in the business of making billions of dollars of silicon products I would build my own gas/coal power plant right next to the factory ! This is ridiculous... somebody trips a switch and suddenly massive losses.

I will not take the time or will to discuss this further more, it will create a thread hijacking for sure. I asked the same, but I learned to shut up sometimes

#5862303

Astyanax

2020-12-05 11:58

anticupidon:

I will not take the time or will to discuss this further more, it will create a thread hijacking for sure. I asked the same, but I learned to shut up sometimes

You cannot operate microfabricators on a backup generator, the wave form is way too unstable for the machinery. At best all its good for is keeping anti-contamination machinery and filtration systems running.

#5862304

anticupidon

2020-12-05 12:01

Valid point. However, isn't there yet a solution for all those power outages?

#5862310

Astyanax

2020-12-05 12:10

anticupidon:

Valid point. However, isn't there yet a solution for all those power outages?

build their own nuclear reactor?

#5862315

Kaarme

2020-12-05 12:14

Astyanax:

You cannot operate microfabricators on a backup generator, the wave form is way too unstable for the machinery. At best all its good for is keeping anti-contamination machinery and filtration systems running.

I don't think we are talking about the kind of backup generators you start by yanking a rope.

#5862322

alanm

2020-12-05 12:28

I dont think 1 hr is that much in the grand scheme of things. If the factory operates 24/7 (720hrs/month), 1 hour is 0.13 % of monthly output. The stock price movement likely has nothing to do with what occurred. Because interruptions in manufacturing do not usually have a positive effect on stock price.

#5862325

JonasBeckman

2020-12-05 12:32

Without knowing if this stopped in the middle of something and they have to discard that work there could be a bit of a holdup plus work on getting all equipment running again and scrubbing it clean from dust and such, didn't consider the power and stability requirements but yeah running the secondary systems or less heavy equipment might help but wouldn't prevent incidents if the main hardware comes to a stop and they have to throw out impure wafers or what not. Not sure how long it takes but I heard it's a bit of time and for equipment some of it's really specialized, some ultra violet device I can't recall the name of and one manufacturer doing these with orders years in advance that sort of stuff.

#5862327

Astyanax

2020-12-05 12:33

Kaarme:

I don't think we are talking about the kind of backup generators you start by yanking a rope.

It would be exactly a Diesel combustion generator that produces extreme variations in electrical wave form and not capable of providing a pure stable output for the fabricators that require precise power waveforms so as not to have imprecise movements during etching.

JonasBeckman:

Without knowing if this stopped in the middle of something and they have to discard that work there could be a bit of a holdup plus work on getting all equipment running again and scrubbing it clean from dust and such, didn't consider the power and stability requirements but yeah running the secondary systems or less heavy equipment might help but wouldn't prevent incidents if the main hardware comes to a stop and they have to throw out impure wafers or what not. Not sure how long it takes but I heard it's a bit of time and for equipment some of it's really specialized, some ultra violet device I can't recall the name of and one manufacturer doing these with orders years in advance that sort of stuff.

the last time sammy had a power outage it took a few days to get everything started again, and that was without needing to clean everything. The harmonics of diesel generators is horrible for anything requiring precise mechanical movements.

Power outages frequently cause damage to chips, which are fabricated on silicon wafers about the size of dinner plates that may take eight to 12 weeks to process. Wafers that are inside processing machines at the time of an outage are often ruined. In some cases, a shutdown of the air-purifying and conditioning system that keeps air in a chip factory free of dust also could contaminate chips. and 2010. A drop in voltage caused a .07-second power disruption at a Toshiba NAND memory chip plant in Japan which could raise prices on many devices, such as smartphones, tablet PCs and digital music players. NAND flash chips are fabricated on silicon wafers about the size of dinner plates and can take between 8 to 12 weeks to process. If the power goes out at any point in that time frame, the entire batch can be destroyed (Clark).

#5862341

alanm

2020-12-05 12:57

Astyanax:

2010. A drop in voltage caused a .07-second power disruption at a Toshiba NAND memory chip plant in Japan which could raise prices on many devices, such as smartphones, tablet PCs and digital music players. NAND flash chips are fabricated on silicon wafers about the size of dinner plates and can take between 8 to 12 weeks to process. If the power goes out at any point in that time frame, the entire batch can be destroyed (Clark).

Damn, didnt expect that sort of sensitivity in the process.

#5862343

lmimmfn

2020-12-05 13:00

Prices will go up if their "shitters blocked"

#5862381

Cidious

2020-12-05 14:54

I really dislike the title... Will prices go up.. We should believing all the BS that if the power goes out for an hour the prices should go up...These kind of titles are just feeding the frenzy...

#5862409

BFeely

2020-12-05 16:22

Astyanax:

It would be exactly a Diesel combustion generator that produces extreme variations in electrical wave form and not capable of providing a pure stable output for the fabricators that require precise power waveforms so as not to have imprecise movements during etching. the last time sammy had a power outage it took a few days to get everything started again, and that was without needing to clean everything. The harmonics of diesel generators is horrible for anything requiring precise mechanical movements.

Does that include the huge generators used to power entire facilities? These don't run a whole lot smoother due to their much higher mass and thus much higher mechanical inertia?

#5862416

alanm

2020-12-05 16:36

Cidious:

I really dislike the title... Will prices go up.. We should believing all the BS that if the power goes out for an hour the prices should go up...These kind of titles are just feeding the frenzy...

My thoughts too until I was made aware of the extremely delicate, intricate nature of process (see astyanax post above). More info: Chip Fabrication plant shutdowns and consequences Concern over the impact of utility power disturbances is probably the greatest in the semiconductor wafer fabrication industry. Producing complex computer chips is an extremely delicate process that blends microelectronics with chemical and mechanical systems, requiring tolerances in microns. The process can take 30 to 50 days to complete and can be totally ruined in a blink of an eye (Energy User News) Power outages frequently cause damage to chips, which are fabricated on silicon wafers about the size of dinner plates that may take eight to 12 weeks to process. Wafers that are inside processing machines at the time of an outage are often ruined. In some cases, a shutdown of the air-purifying and conditioning system that keeps air in a chip factory free of dust also could contaminate chips. http://energyskeptic.com/2014/interdependent-chip-fab-electricgrid-financial-sys/

#5862444

Kaarme

2020-12-05 17:38

Astyanax:

It would be exactly a Diesel combustion generator that produces extreme variations in electrical wave form and not capable of providing a pure stable output for the fabricators that require precise power waveforms so as not to have imprecise movements during etching.

I'm no professional in that field, but surely anything requiring precise movements in such fabrication is using DC and stepper motors run by microcontrollers, not some humongous AC motors like you would find at a sawmill. I imagine the actual problem is that the factory as a whole eats megawatts of power. Actually, the article alanm linked to says it clearly: The chip manufacturing plants consume so much energy that they would need such a large and expensive power plant that they may consider it out of the question. Needless to say, if you have a huge power plant of your own to ensure steady power, you need to be running the power plant all the time. You can't just turn it on in a microsecond if you lose grid power. However, most likely the power you produce yourself, with all the expenses involved in running a power plant, would make the electricity from there more expensive than publicly traded electricity. So, apparently the semiconductor plants often just rely on praying the public grip never fails.

#5862456

Noisiv

2020-12-05 18:11

Astyanax:

It would be exactly a Diesel combustion generator that produces extreme variations in electrical wave form and not capable of providing a pure stable output for the fabricators that require precise power waveforms so as not to have imprecise movements during etching.

LOL https://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_enDocType=Brochure&p_File_Name=INDED104010EN.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=INDED104010EN

Kaarme:

I don't think we are talking about the kind of backup generators you start by yanking a rope.

Speak for yourself 😀

#5862460

JonasBeckman

2020-12-05 18:20

So, apparently the semiconductor plants often just rely on praying the public grip never fails.

RAM pricing destined to be doomed forever, got it. Well what can they do when there's a major outage or other problem, anything from man with digging equipment to lightning strikes could be a major issue after all plus downtime or maintenance and equipment failure at the plant itself. EDIT: Well I shouldn't use the local situation and overall it's not like there's incidents every month or so. Finally got done with some upgrading of the equipment for reliability and improved uptime here and then someone decided to also overhaul the water or sewage piping as that was getting in need of maintenance. They found where the power cables were alright ha ha. 😀 (Thankfully after digging them down this one time that turned out to be a problem things have been fairly stable over how it used to be with overall stability.)

#5862479

Agonist

2020-12-05 18:49

All I know is that when I worked at the Nissan plant here in Tennessee, if the lines went down for 15 mins, Nissan would lose 100k during that time.