PCIe 4.0 feature pops up in X470 Motherboard BIOS

Astyanax

2019-05-20 08:49

Some of the existing boards are built well enough to handle Gen 4 from the CPU controller.

Update: We spoke with AMD representatives, who confirmed that 300- and 400-series AM4 motherboards can support PCIe 4.0. AMD will not lock the out feature, instead it will be up to motherboard vendors to validate and qualify the faster standard on its motherboards on a case-by-case basis. Motherboard vendors that do support the feature will enable it through BIOS updates, but those updates will come at the discretion of the vendor. As mentioned below, support could be limited to slots based upon board, switch, and mux layouts. Our sources tell us that after unlocking the feature via a BIOS update, the older motherboards supply a PCIe 4.0 x16 connection to the first slot on the motherboard, but the remainder of the slots revert to PCIe 3.0 signaling rates. That's because any trace routing on the motherboard that exceeds six inches requires newer redrivers and retimers that support PCIe 4.0's faster signaling rates. That means the PCIe slot nearest to the CPU will easily support PCIe 4.0, while the other slots, including M.2 ports, will run at a PCIe 3.0 signaling rate.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-pcie-4.0-motherboard,38401.html

#5671006

fantaskarsef

2019-05-20 09:18

That's actually pretty cool, even if the bandwidth doesn't find much practical use as of now, or am I wrong?

#5671008

Undying

2019-05-20 09:33

fantaskarsef:

That's actually pretty cool, even if the bandwidth doesn't find much practical use as of now, or am I wrong?

Not right now but it could be the near future. We just need more powerful gpus.

#5671015

asturur

2019-05-20 09:56

or faster disks 🙂

#5671022

Astyanax

2019-05-20 10:14

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-pcie-4.0-phison-nvme,38418.html

#5671023

Clawedge

2019-05-20 10:16

I know it's not adding much to the discussion, but there is no way in hell a particular competitor would allow this. They would demand a new socket and a new chipset and a new CPU. Thanks AMD for being cool.

#5671024

Clawedge

2019-05-20 10:18

Astyanax:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-pcie-4.0-phison-nvme,38418.html

Sweet mother of holey moley

#5671027

Astyanax

2019-05-20 10:22

found some more deets on it https://pcper.com/2019/01/phison-previews-pcie-gen4-x4-nvme-with-ps5016-e16-controller/

#5671038

fantaskarsef

2019-05-20 10:44

Undying:

Not right now but it could be the near future. We just need more powerful gpus.

asturur:

or faster disks 🙂

You are both right only that... I don't see it making sense right now, on a now "legacy" mainboard. Besides professional use I honestly doubt there's a need to surpass PCIe3.0 at this time. BUT the future always has to start somewhere, and it doesn't cost more for consumers, so as long as those new BIOS will still be stable with PCIe 4.0 enabled, it's only a good thing imho.

Astyanax:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-pcie-4.0-phison-nvme,38418.html

Astyanax:

found some more deets on it https://pcper.com/2019/01/phison-previews-pcie-gen4-x4-nvme-with-ps5016-e16-controller/

Thanks for sharing the articles / benches

#5671052

nizzen

2019-05-20 10:58

fantaskarsef:

You are both right only that... I don't see it making sense right now, on a now "legacy" mainboard. Besides professional use I honestly doubt there's a need to surpass PCIe3.0 at this time. BUT the future always has to start somewhere, and it doesn't cost more for consumers, so as long as those new BIOS will still be stable with PCIe 4.0 enabled, it's only a good thing imho. Thanks for sharing the articles / benches

The ssd barly go over pci-e x4 3.0 speeds on seq read/write 😛 Pci-e 4.0 maybe offer even lower latency, like 3.0 did over 2.0. Intel Optane pci-e 4.0 incoming? 😀

#5671056

fantaskarsef

2019-05-20 11:07

nizzen:

The ssd barly go over pci-e x4 3.0 speeds on seq read/write 😛 Pci-e 4.0 maybe offer even lower latency, like 3.0 did over 2.0. Intel Optane pci-e 4.0 incoming? 😀

At least until they discover that the optane algorythm is actually less safe than anything else Intel "invented" in the last decade. 😀

#5671086

Athlonite

2019-05-20 13:09

erm What's the 3DMark01 Enhancement

#5671092

Netherwind

2019-05-20 13:40

Is there a BIOS update that will transform my 6700K to a 9700K? 😉

#5671154

spine

2019-05-20 16:34

Athlonite:

erm What's the 3DMark01 Enhancement

It's a tweak which solely makes that one benchmark run faster. My Asus Z87 Hero has it, as do many others.

#5671180

Reddoguk

2019-05-20 17:33

Well those transfer speeds of Gen4 is probably the reason for active fan/chipset cooling on the 570 mobos. If you could push both PCIe slots to X16 i think 300/400 chipsets would melt. ^^ But there's not powerful enough GFX cards out yet that could push those gen4 numbers.

#5671187

Fox2232

2019-05-20 18:03

Reddoguk:

Well those transfer speeds of Gen4 is probably the reason for active fan/chipset cooling on the 570 mobos. If you could push both PCIe slots to X16 i think 300/400 chipsets would melt. ^^ But there's not powerful enough GFX cards out yet that could push those gen4 numbers.

Issue is not in slots. And no, what you claim is false as it can get. As CPU is PCIe 4.0 able, anything directly connected to it able to do same can work. (Like Sandy to Ivy on adequate MBs.) Since PCIe/M.2 slots behind chipset are already speed limited to 2.0 and mutually exclusive in use, there is no reason to increase bandwidth towards and from older chipset. (Which likely does not even tick fast enough to modulate signal.) Then to the GPUs. Look at single GPU system using PCIe 3.0 x16. Now upgrade to two PCIe 4.0 based and you have PCIe 4.0 x8 for each. Or you can actually afford to use 2nd PCIe slot which is physically x8 for something else. (Like two M.2 drives.) With PCIe 4.0 those slots are actually becoming more useful. With PCIe 5.0 we'll already be at point where one can comfortably use external x4 GPU as cabling will be OK.

#5671213

schmidtbag

2019-05-20 19:30

Makes sense - aren't the bulk of those lanes provided by the CPU package anyway?

fantaskarsef:

That's actually pretty cool, even if the bandwidth doesn't find much practical use as of now, or am I wrong?

Depends who you ask. As far as I'm concerned, no GPU comes anywhere close to saturating 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes, except maybe in certain synthetic loads. Personally, I find it hard to justify M.2 SSDs since most everyday home use-cases don't benefit from the extra NVMe bandwidth (yes, I know, there are real-world cases that do take advantage of it, but my point is most home users don't). To me, the real benefit of PCIe 4.0 are the benefits to x1 and x8 devices. Although this won't happen (due to backward compatibility), x8 lanes could become the new maximum standard on motherboards; there's no real point in having any more than that anymore, except for a handful of industrial cases or forward compatibility with older parts. As for x1 slots, this opens doors to new devices that used to demand more lanes, such as NICs exceeding well beyond 1Gbps, capture cards, extra USB 3.2 ports, or even low-end GPUs that aren't complete garbage.

#5671301

Agonist

2019-05-21 02:48

schmidtbag:

Makes sense - aren't the bulk of those lanes provided by the CPU package anyway? Depends who you ask. As far as I'm concerned, no GPU comes anywhere close to saturating 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes, except maybe in certain synthetic loads. Personally, I find it hard to justify M.2 SSDs since most everyday home use-cases don't benefit from the extra NVMe bandwidth (yes, I know, there are real-world cases that do take advantage of it, but my point is most home users don't). To me, the real benefit of PCIe 4.0 are the benefits to x1 and x8 devices. Although this won't happen (due to backward compatibility), x8 lanes could become the new maximum standard on motherboards; there's no real point in having any more than that anymore, except for a handful of industrial cases or forward compatibility with older parts. As for x1 slots, this opens doors to new devices that used to demand more lanes, such as NICs exceeding well beyond 1Gbps, capture cards, extra USB 3.2 ports, or even low-end GPUs that aren't complete garbage.

Who the hell cares of if normal everyday users get no benefit from NVME. I do, and so do many of on guru3d. MGPU will kick ass with PCIE 4.0. Especially with AMD since everything is done over PCIE4. The reason I made sure I got a X370 board was so I could at least SLI or Crossfire at 3.0 8x speeds with an NVME and a m.2 sata drive if I wanted. B350 boards and B450 boards only do 4x 3.0 on the second slot.

#5671305

schmidtbag

2019-05-21 03:05

Agonist:

Who the hell cares of if normal everyday users get no benefit from NVME. I do, and so do many of on guru3d.

Um... most people care? Hence my point... You aren't most people, and therefore you don't apply to what I said. I already addressed this, so... what exactly are you in a huff about?

MGPU will kick ass with PCIE 4.0. Especially with AMD since everything is done over PCIE4. The reason I made sure I got a X370 board was so I could at least SLI or Crossfire at 3.0 8x speeds with an NVME and a m.2 sata drive if I wanted. B350 boards and B450 boards only do 4x 3.0 on the second slot.

Indeed it will. And good for you - it seems you actually spent your money wisely.

#5671332

mat9v9tam

2019-05-21 07:58

I wonder if someone will make a splitter/translator (to translate PCIEx 4.0 signalling to PCIEx 3.0) that will enable us to connect two x16 PCIEx 3.0 GPUs to one x16 PCIEx 4.0 slot on X370/X470 boards. Since the bios already allows for splitting signalling to slot 1 and 2 for x8 and the "translator" card was inserted in the first slot with short routes...