I thought we were skipping PCI-E 4, and then we weren't, but it should have been short lived for 5, now 5 looks short lived, or skipping....
Who knows, i wish SATA would be updated, or a new data port that's not M.2, something that can be hooked into drives just like SATA.
Question is: "Since we have seen claims that PCIe 4.0 is unstable outside of well tuned traces on MB after few centimeters. How is going PCIe 5.0 and 6.0 double bandwidth again?"
You can see from graph below that there was big gap between Gen3 and Gen4.
PCI-SIG is in hurry to roll out new gens. I don't know if there need or technology/material available to actually support it for mass production.
IMO, even Gen4 right now seems a bit rushed. Don't feel good about prices on X570 chipsets for Matisse and additional cooling.
https://mms.businesswire.com/media/20190618005945/en/727854/5/Option_3.jpg
PCIe 6.0 would be great for multi-GPU and NVMe storage on the desktop, as well as NUMA nodes and CCIX (multi CPU/GPU cache coherency) and multi-port Terabit Ethernet in the cloud server domain, but that's 2023-2024 in real world products.
Hell, I'm still on a Haswell with PCIe 2.0... might upgrade to Broadwell to better utilise my brand new x4 NVMe SSD disk.
I think the specification being done doesn't necessarily means that products will be made?
I can definitively see for example Intel skipping PCIe 4 for 5 and AMD skipping 5 for 6. As long as they keep backward compatibility, there's not a lot of problem.
Chipsets are already pretty much on their edge with PCIe 4, so maybe that as well will hold up further adoption of newer specs.
I can't help but feel that these announcements should of came after AMD released their x570 chipset, the misinformed may hold off buying anything pcie 4 knowing 5 and 6 are on the way, I know people on here know it won't make too much difference
PCIE 4.0 is already more expensive to implement. You really need a chipset made on a 10nm/7nm process to be efficient enough to not need active cooling. Then you have increased signaling so you need short clean traces which can increase motherboard layers all making it more costly.
PCIE 5.0 is going into servers. Intel and AMD are not bringing PCIE 5.0 into desktops in the near future(5 years or less) as its complete overkill and is very costly right now. PCIE 6.0 is also going to live in server for many years as well.
I suspect once we get to the point of making chipsets using a 3nm GAAFET process we would see PCIE 5.0 in the desktop space as that should get us a nice passively cooled cheap chipset.
Unlike in the past we can make faster interconnects with current technology so we will have some used in servers where it makes the most since and some used in desktops where it makes the most since.
Maybe it's like web browsers. They just start releasing 4, 5, 6 just months apart and in a few years we have PCIe 42.0. I mean, I'm on Chrome 75. Its pretty much the same as Chrome 28-74?
I suspect once we get to the point of making chipsets using a 3nm GAAFET process we would see PCIE 5.0 in the desktop space as that should get us a nice passively cooled cheap chipset.
That will be while before that even happens 7nm still isnt a thing less i missing something
Intel and AMD are not bringing PCIE 5.0 into desktops in the near future(5 years or less)
When did Intel and AMD disclose their product release plans for the next five years, including such details as PCIe revisions? I must have completely missed it - there are some vague codenames like Zen 4 and Willow Cove here and there, but absolutely no discernible details about architectural changes. And even these codenames don't go much farther than year 2021.
On the other side, IP vendors like Synopsis and Intel talk about "accelerated" adoption of PCIe 5.0 and even 6.0; some of them will skip PCIe 4.0 generation altogether. (Furthermore PCIe 6.0 speeds are achieved on the same clock by changing the modulation to PAM-4 - which is used by 100G/200G Ethernet over copper PCB backplanes within lengths of 0.5-1.0 m).
https://www.synopsys.com/designware-ip/technical-bulletin/accelerating-32gtps-pcie5-designs.htmlhttps://wccftech.com/intel-xe-coherent-multi-gpu-cxl/
With that in mind, I don't think it's going to take year 2025 for PCIe 5.0 to trickle down the PC ecosystem, especially as PCIe has become the ubiquitous interface for high-speed wired I/O covering almost every niche (except for TDMS video):
internal expansion - PCIe x1/x16 slots;
internal and external NVMe storage - SSDs in M.2 form factor, and SD Express, MicroSD Express and CFexpress flash cards;
internal CPU/GPU interconnect - CCIX, CXL, GenZ;
external expansion and I/O - Thunderbolt 3/ USB4 over USB-C connector;
100 Gbit and Terabit Ethernet over copper curcuit board backplane;
digital video link - DisplayPort 2.0 over DP connector, and probably ThunderBolt4 over USB-C connector.
PS. Looks like TDMS video has given up to PCIe as well - DisplayPort 2.0 uses the ThunderBolt physical interface (PHY) enhanced to a 4-lane 80 Gbit/s link.
Oh, only 256GB/s with 16 lanes? That's the bare minimum any device on earth needs to .... wait ... what? 😀
Btw.: You would either need DDR(x)-16000 in dual channel (no typo!!!) or a system capable of processing DDR4-4000 in octa-channel to process the data. 😀
126 GB/s in each direction for PCIe 6.0 x16 - that's dual-channel DDR5-8000 (PC5-64000). And server processor have up to 64 lanes - that's 504 GB/s in each direction, roughly octa-channel DDR5-8000 (or HBM3).
Welcome to the world of heterogeneous integration, where CPU, coprocessors and memory are integrated on the same package.
Of course it's primarily driven by datacenter usage, but it also means faster x4 devices, like SSDs and flash cards, USB4/Thunderbolt, and external dock stations / graphic cards.
I suspect once we get to the point of making chipsets using a 3nm GAAFET process we would see PCIE 5.0 in the desktop space as that should get us a nice passively cooled cheap chipset.
Passively cooled is for chumps. Just slap some LN2 on that baby and revel in the glory! Or if you want a more permanent solution then I'm sure Intel will be willing to sell you a slightly-used chiller 😉 j/k
Passively cooled is for chumps. Just slap some LN2 on that baby and revel in the glory! Or if you want a more permanent solution then I'm sure Intel will be willing to sell you a slightly-used chiller 😉 j/k
Everyone here is chumps unless they have a whole room dedicated to LN2 supply for running your PC for long periods of time on LN2! Just daisy chain them up and you got a days worth of gaming!
http://ln2gas.com/wp-content/uploads/liquifiedgases_resize.jpg
TDMS video): internal expansion - PCIe x1/x16 slots; internal and external NVMe storage - SSDs in M.2 form factor, and SD Express, MicroSD Express and CFexpress flash cards; internal CPU/GPU interconnect - CCIX, CXL, GenZ; external expansion and I/O - Thunderbolt 3/ USB4 over USB-C connector; 100 Gbit and Terabit Ethernet over copper curcuit board backplane; digital video link - DisplayPort 2.0 over DP connector, and probably ThunderBolt4 over USB-C connector. PS. Looks like TDMS video has given up to PCIe as well - DisplayPort 2.0 uses the ThunderBolt physical interface (PHY) enhanced to a 4-lane 80 Gbit/s link.