Denial:

If all gamers are smart enough to buy the correct cards regardless of branding, then why do people care that AMD cards are getting rebranded?

because it would cause amd harm in real advertising money not the free crybabies they get on the internet

cowie:

because it would cause amd harm in real advertising money not the free crybabies they get on the internet

AMD doesn't pay for brand advertising for AIB partners, the partners themselves do. I don't support the GPP forcing AIB's to rebrand AMD cards, but I find it amusing that so many people keep saying that branding doesn't matter - but those same people are complaining that this is anti-competitive for "reasons".. perhaps because the branding does matter?

Denial:

AMD doesn't pay for brand advertising for AIB partners, the partners themselves do. I don't support the GPP forcing AIB's to rebrand AMD cards, but I find it amusing that so many people keep saying that branding doesn't matter - but those same people are complaining that this is anti-competitive for "reasons".. perhaps because the branding does matter?

nah you are wrong they kick in to certain makers both the aibs and exclusive brands Select Partners are eligible to receive access to training, sales tools, marketing assets, channel communications, and Select certificates and logos. Provisional Premier Partners are eligible to receive Select tier benefits plus rebates according to track, and have two quarters to attain Premier Partner status. Premier Partners are eligible to receive Provisional Premier tier benefits plus access to AMD executives via partner meetings, and Premier certificates and logos according to track. Elite Partners are eligible to receive exclusive benefits according to track, including: Co-Marketing funding, advertising on the Catalyst™ Control Center driver site, participation in the AMD Executive Team (AET) Summit, , and Elite certificates and logos even the poor partners get marketing kick backs most in the industry do it that's why when this bs troll fest started it was the amd side of the aibs that really must have hated it....them having to really work at new lines

Denial:

If all gamers are smart enough to buy the correct cards regardless of branding, then why do people care that AMD cards are getting rebranded?

Question is why nVidia did not ask AIBs to make new branding just for them? Would you like to be singled out? Would you just watch some group being singled out? Those things start small. People asked to stand in separate queue. Asked to wear clear identification, so they are separated... If you are proud and want to stand out, you should stand out yourself. Not start marking those you want to be differentiated from. Imagine members here to have large Guru3D gaming group on steam. And then AMD comes and asks Hilbert to ensure that no nVidia gamers are mixed with AMD gamers. And means to achieve this would be creating anything else than Guru3D group for nVidia gamers and them being kicked out of Guru3D steam group. Or imagine any service you are receiving and that being taken from you because you had certain property. You belonged to group, and another group would pay service provider to stop providing this great service to yours. Or maybe they would not pay, they would threaten this service provider.

cowie:

nah you are wrong they kick in to certain makers both the aibs and exclusive brands Select Partners are eligible to receive access to training, sales tools, marketing assets, channel communications, and Select certificates and logos. Provisional Premier Partners are eligible to receive Select tier benefits plus rebates according to track, and have two quarters to attain Premier Partner status. Premier Partners are eligible to receive Provisional Premier tier benefits plus access to AMD executives via partner meetings, and Premier certificates and logos according to track. Elite Partners are eligible to receive exclusive benefits according to track, including: Co-Marketing funding, advertising on the Catalyst™ Control Center driver site, participation in the AMD Executive Team (AET) Summit, , and Elite certificates and logos even the poor partners get marketing kick backs most in the industry do it

I'm not saying AMD doesn't pay for marketing - I'm saying they don't pay for AIB brand marketing. AMD doesn't pay ASUS to market republic of gamers, they pay ASUS to market AMD graphics cards. And even if they do pay for ROG, it just furthers my point that the ROG BRAND matters for sales - despite what everyone on here is saying.

Fox2232:

Question is why nVidia did not ask AIBs to make new branding just for them?

Because the existing branding matters? Which is my point? lol.. my argument is that the branding matters, which is why Nvidia wants it and AMD doesn't want to be removed from it. But everyone in here is arguing that it doesn't matter - that gamers are smart enough to know which card to buy. Obviously some gamers are - but I think that branding matters or else these companies wouldn't be dumping so much money to maintain them. Again, I think what GPP did was bad.. but I think it was bad because AMD losing that brand does damage their sales, because some portion of gamers really do think ROG has faster or quieter fans, or whatever.

If anyone have issues with distinguish AMD and Nvidia cards its more issue of manufactuers using similar graphics on boxes, it have nothing to do with branding. On other hand I want to have option for build to chose same brand for all components (ROG as example). Nvidia CEO should stop assuming what he things gamers want and start listening what we realy want. As gamer: I want to have free choice. I want to be able use any VRR capable monitor or TV and not like being limited to chose from like 0.1% options that have G-sync I want to be sure that when I buy specific GPU (like 1060) all are using same chip and same memory interface and type (when you change chip or memory on it, change as well name so its clear its different) I want Nvidia to provide Clarity they were promissing and not via BS like GPP and arrogant statements.

Denial:

I'm not saying AMD doesn't pay for marketing - I'm saying they don't pay for AIB brand marketing. AMD doesn't pay ASUS to market republic of gamers, they pay ASUS to market AMD graphics cards. And even if they do pay for ROG, it just furthers my point that the ROG BRAND matters for sales - despite what everyone on here is saying. Because the existing branding matters? Which is my point? lol.. my argument is that the branding matters, which is why Nvidia wants it and AMD doesn't want to be removed from it. But everyone in here is arguing that it doesn't matter - that gamers are smart enough to know which card to buy. Obviously some gamers are - but I think that branding obviously matters or else these companies wouldn't be dumping so much money to maintain them.

no i hear you on that point as well as fox's rog is big but its not about the consumer its about NVidia needing to see their brand in its own light as fox said too they would be stupid to do it but they could have asked for a new nv brand.

🙄

Nvidia is a Giant among Giants!

Denial:

Because the existing branding matters? Which is my point? lol.. my argument is that the branding matters, which is why Nvidia wants it and AMD doesn't want to be removed from it. But everyone in here is arguing that it doesn't matter - that gamers are smart enough to know which card to buy. Obviously some gamers are - but I think that branding obviously matters or else these companies wouldn't be dumping so much money to maintain them.

I stay in this with you. While some specific name does not matter to me, as I do my homework with purchases, it matters to 95% of all people. I had argument about this with person defending GPP, who would say that branding does not matter. I looked at my signature here... plain Fury X. Guy's signature contained "gaming" next to GPU name. Apparently it did matter even to person who thought it does not. (But I can admit that I love Fury X name, AMD should have revived Rage series. And I would not mind Navi having another Fury/Rage.)

Denial:

If all gamers are smart enough to buy the correct cards regardless of branding, then why do people care that AMD cards are getting rebranded?

The most damning observation re GPP that I have yet seen. 😀

not for nothing but amd should just run with gpp now. I would think it could help them the most they really need a adverting blitz with new named lines on aibs with "new" cards.

alanm:

Sadly there are a lot of clueless consumers who dont know much about PC hardware and who may be swayed by a store clerk to buy one brand over the other simply due to the stores stock situation. They may not even be capable of installing any components and ask the store or someone else to do it for them. Some may have a vague impression in their minds that MSI Gaming X is a hot product regardless if AMD or Nvidia and that may be the main influencing factor. This happens with other hi-tech products as well. Not saying thats the real reason for GPP, as I also said in my post (which you seemed to overlook) that Nvidia could also likely be doing this hurt AMDs market presence.

Those clueless consumers are directed immediately to systems with Intel and Nvidia parts because they are considered the "best"!!!... At least that´s how it works here in Portugal... And in other countries i suppose. So Nvidia doesn´t need to worry about improving the actual situation of gaming brands because the current situation works perfectly in their favor...

Denial:

If all gamers are smart enough to buy the correct cards regardless of branding, then why do people care that AMD cards are getting rebranded?

Mostly because questionable and more than likely illegal business practices are just that: Illegal. If Nvidia truly thought their GPP was fantastic, consumer friendly and more than anything, legal, they'd not have scraped the project over 'lies, defarmation and misinformation'. Kyle apparently single handedly brought GPP to its knees, going by Nvidia's GPP closure statement. Actually, while on the subject of preaching and shouting transparency Nvidia could've kicked it off by introducing a GTX 1055 / 1060 / 1065 as the transparancy provided on a 1060 3GB vs. 6GB implies it was only a difference of VRAM. One can only wonder what we will get if there's truly a (cut down) 1070 arriving as a third 1060 variant. P.S: I'm well aware of the RX 560(D) fiasco and my opinion on that isn't any different than the 1060's case - or the 1030's for that matter.

alanm:

The most damning observation re GPP that I have yet seen. 😀

Because the card manufacturers didn't do it voluntarily. They were going to do it because Nvidia was blackmailing them. That should be the damning observation. Things might be different in Huang's home country, but over here blackmailing is a crime, and I don't view it favourably.

alanm:

Sadly there are a lot of clueless consumers who dont know much about PC hardware and who may be swayed by a store clerk to buy one brand over the other simply due to the stores stock situation. They may not even be capable of installing any components and ask the store or someone else to do it for them. Some may have a vague impression in their minds that MSI Gaming X is a hot product regardless if AMD or Nvidia and that may be the main influencing factor. This happens with other hi-tech products as well. Not saying thats the real reason for GPP, as I also said in my post (which you seemed to overlook) that Nvidia could also likely be doing this hurt AMDs market presence.

Even if the cardboard boxes were totally different with not a single same word shared by them, the clerks would still be doing their recommendations all the same to those customers who don't know beforehand what they are looking for. If the PC hardware store employees can't tell Nvidia and AMD from each other... I think the shop manager would have some teaching work to do in that case. Or even quote Trump and fire the employee. The boxes and the cards looked similar because they were both carrying similar visual design and cooling solutions. That was so that Brand A would be different from Brand B. Brand A might be using both Nvidia and AMD, but that doesn't matter to Brand A as long as both sell. They are only competing with Brand B, C, D, E, etc. and trying to be different enough so that customers would choose them. Nvidia, however, told Brand A to compete with itself and waste its own money doing so. I didn't overlook anything, I only concentrated on the unrealistic alternative you listed. Why would I mention the realistic one? There's nothing to correct there.

So is there finally any real "evidence" of what those contracts contained that NV tried to have partners sign? I kind of seemed to have missed it.

fantaskarsef:

So is there finally any real "evidence" of what those contracts contained that NV tried to have partners sign? I kind of seemed to have missed it.

Do you need letter where perpetrator admitted crime, or is it enough that there is dead AREZ body. MSI's comment admitting that suspected behavior is perceived exactly as they meant to do it. (calling AMD subpar and leaving it there without reaction till there was large negativity buildup so they went into damage control mode) Gigabyte taking out Aorus from AMD. Moment when ASUS no longer felt pressure, entire Arez was scratched. I wonder how successful would that brand be.

Fox2232:

Do you need letter where perpetrator admitted crime, or is it enough that there is dead AREZ body. MSI's comment admitting that suspected behavior is perceived exactly as they meant to do it. (calling AMD subpar and leaving it there without reaction till there was large negativity buildup so they went into damage control mode) Gigabyte taking out Aorus from AMD. Moment when ASUS no longer felt pressure, entire Arez was scratched. I wonder how successful would that brand be.

Well, yes, I'd like to read those contracts. Something wrong with wanting to go and know beyond circumstantial evidence and hear-say?

Remember people, GPP wasn't just a marketing thing. It was also a way for brands to get first dibs on parts, and elevated priority of Nvidia's support. It screws over the smaller AIB companies. GPP reminds me a lot of those clubs in elementary school involving a group of boys and they put up a sign saying "NO GIRLS ALLOWED!". It's childish and accomplishes nothing, since a club isn't supposed to let in just anybody anyway. Nvidia's GPP is no different than that sign. If an AIB partner is making a GeForce product, they're part of the club; there really shouldn't have to be a sign/condition saying "NO AMD ALLOWED!". Anyway, I'm a bit impressed Huang remained so... pleasant in all of this. I thought his oversized ego would've got in the way, where he'd say something with an implication such as "but how else will people know how great we are!?" but instead he seemed to respect the demands of the market.

Fox2232:

“Better never means better for everyone... It always means worse, for some.”

Though I don't find this to be universally true, it is especially true in this context.

fantaskarsef:

Well, yes, I'd like to read those contracts. Something wrong with wanting to go and know beyond circumstantial evidence and hear-say?

Nothing wrong with wanting. I would personally read it too. (Even while there may be like 90% legal stuff without any real informative value.) And you are right that AIBs did not admit that their actions were due to GPP. But their quick reversal of action and plans once connection was mentioned and GPP scrapped... And I think you should not call it hear-say. At least not things which GN guy said in that YT video. (if you meant that) Because he did claim that he only spoke of things he got directly from communication with AIB's people and consider solid. So, he was either saying truth or he lied. I have no problem if you think that what he said is just made up BS. It is opinion about GN credibility. But it is not hearsay. Otherwise anyone could call Hilbert's information obtained via email communication as "yet another hearsay." And that would be wrong. Edit: And I think GPP was scrapped exactly because nVidia did not want anyone in public to see those contracts. This ending up in some court, and information pulled + dissected by tech sites... For 2 months GPP is being discussed, and it shined bad light without even knowing tip of an iceberg. While I think that GPP was meant to cause harm to AMD. I think too that there may be statements which originally meant no harm, but upon closer look, they may prove to be much worse PR nightmare.