Dazz:

The M.2 is PCI gen 3 not 2 as this is connected directly to the CPU like the first PCIe Gen 3 16x slot, the 2nd PCIe 16x slot is however, Gen 2 but considering less than 1% of people use crossfire/SLI it's unlikely to be a problem for the vast majority of people more so with budget broads and it also has the BIOS Flashback button, although true there is no USB-C front port. https://storage-asset.msi.com/datasheet/mb/global/B450-TOMAHAWK-MAX-II.pdf As for VRM i sure hope it's better because there are no boards released to the public of even pictures of boards on the B660 chipset, but then i was comparing your i5 11400F + B560 board to a Ryzen 5600X + B450 and was comparing how a CPU that's priced cheap like the 11400F but has very bad cheap boards and getting to the range of OK,they increase the cost significantly, hence why I choose a B450 on the Ryzen platform which is older but has more than enough to power a 5600X and even overclock it, while for the 11400F as you can't really overclock it but you want a board that can at least remove the power limits to get the most out of it so 120w power to the CPU with alot of B650 boards fail to do that and some will not budge past 65w. Although i was wrong it did say 11600k but i meant 11400f. Can't compare something like a 12500F/12600F + B660 because we have no real pricing or motherboard layouts/cooling info yet till the NDA is lifted.

im talking about pch,2nd and 3rd drives and b560 is gonna have pci-e4 which b450 does not 11400f is also 120eur cheaper.

cucaulay malkin:

there's gotta be trouble when the b-series chipset in an upgrade over the previous ones,but the cpus are more power hungry. but you are gonna have trouble putting a power hungry cpu on a mediocre board in general,that is not intel specific issue like Dazz is making it sound.

No it's not Intel or AMD specific but Intel do have far worse lower-end boards this is most likely due to the cost of Intel chipset licensing eating away at the cost so cutbacks are needed. Then there's the PCIe Gen 4 controller commanding a higher price premium on top, and most likely more so in the case for PCIe Gen5 for Z690 which is why they are so expensive. The 11th Gen Intel processors are very power-hungry so a fairly decent VRM is needed or a good heatsink is needed to prevent thermal throttling. With the 11400F needing around 110w power to run all core 4.4Ghz and the Ryzen 3600X needing 107w for all core 4.8GHz (although 4.7Ghz is more realistic) Although price has just changed slightly up from £269 to £275 now Intel 11400F £186 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Core-i5-11400F-2-6-GHz-Cache/dp/B08TX4T92W/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Intel+i5+11400F&qid=1638888206&sr=8-3 5600X £275 https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-Ryzen-5600X-Processor-Cache/dp/B08166SLDF/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=5600X&qid=1638886860&sr=8-2&th=1 5600X (£275) retail with cooler + MSI Tomahawk II MAX B450 (£60) = £335 i11400F (£186) retail with cooler + MSI MAG Mortar B560M (£120) = £306 so for an extra £29 you are getting an overall faster product that also allows you to overclock much higher and get more performance (rather than just maxing out the power limit to run all core since the 11400F is a locked processor) I did say the board for around 130, but that mortar does seem to be pretty decent.

Dazz:

No it's not Intel or AMD specific but Intel do have far worse lower-end boards this is most likely due to the cost of Intel chipset licensing eating away at the cost so cutbacks are needed. Then there's the PCIe Gen 4 controller commanding a higher price premium on top, and most likely more so in the case for PCIe Gen5 for Z690 which is why they are so expensive. The 11th Gen Intel processors are very power-hungry so a fairly decent VRM is needed or a good heatsink is needed to prevent thermal throttling. With the 11400F needing around 110w power to run all core 4.4Ghz and the Ryzen 3600X needing 107w for all core 4.8GHz (although 4.7Ghz is more realistic) Although price has just changed slightly up from £269 to £275 now Intel 11400F £186 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Core-i5-11400F-2-6-GHz-Cache/dp/B08TX4T92W/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Intel+i5+11400F&qid=1638888206&sr=8-3 5600X £275 https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-Ryzen-5600X-Processor-Cache/dp/B08166SLDF/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=5600X&qid=1638886860&sr=8-2&th=1 5600X (£275) retail with cooler + MSI Tomahawk II MAX B450 (£60) = £335 i11400F (£186) retail with cooler + MSI MAG Mortar B560M (£120) = £306 so for an extra £29 you are getting an overall faster product that also allows you to overclock much higher and get more performance (rather than just maxing out the power limit to run all core since the 11400F is a locked processor) I did say the board for around 130, but that mortar does seem to be pretty decent.

yeah and a worse board worth half the price.

cucaulay malkin:

yeah and a worse board worth half the price.

I wouldn't put 5600X with B450 board . B550 for AM4 is way to go , plenty of choice and good priced. 100 EUR grants you good mobo that can handle almost anything + OC.

@cucaulay malkin & @Dazz you 2 seem to be stuck in an infinite loop .

Venix:

@cucaulay malkin & @Dazz you 2 seem to be stuck in an infinite loop .

Have you tried to turn it off and back on again, right should have done that in the first instance lol.

Dazz:

While it is interesting, more so for OEM's where they can skimp on things and while the B660 will be cheaper than a Z690 it will still be more expensive than B450's and B550's but since the 12400 has lower clock speeds and can't overclock, while you can on B450/B550's. I wouldn't be surprised that the 5600X's come down in price once the replacement 5600X with 3D cache comes out and since you can get 4700Mhz all core vs 4200 (maybe less) all core on the i5. Guess time will tell in how much the 5600X price comes down and if it can continue to compete. Thus far from initial benchmarks, the 3600x and 12400 are more or less on par but in some cases the higher clock speed the 5600X comes out on top. Fun times for budget builds.

https://www.amazon.com/12-Thread-Unlocked-Desktop-Processor-Stealth/dp/B08ZMFS7R8/ AMD 5 3600 $249.00 https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-5600x/p/N82E16819113666 AMD Ryzen 5 5600X $299.00 https://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp Intel CORE I5-10400F $149.99 https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-11400-core-i5-11th-gen/p/N82E16819118241 Intel Core i5-11400 $189.98 https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i5-11400f-processor-review,1.html https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11400f/ https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-10400f/

Dazz:

No it's not Intel or AMD specific but Intel do have far worse lower-end boards this is most likely due to the cost of Intel chipset licensing eating away at the cost so cutbacks are needed. Then there's the PCIe Gen 4 controller commanding a higher price premium on top, and most likely more so in the case for PCIe Gen5 for Z690 which is why they are so expensive. The 11th Gen Intel processors are very power-hungry so a fairly decent VRM is needed or a good heatsink is needed to prevent thermal throttling. With the 11400F needing around 110w power to run all core 4.4Ghz and the Ryzen 3600X needing 107w for all core 4.8GHz (although 4.7Ghz is more realistic) Although price has just changed slightly up from £269 to £275 now Intel 11400F £186 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Core-i5-11400F-2-6-GHz-Cache/dp/B08TX4T92W/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Intel+i5+11400F&qid=1638888206&sr=8-3 5600X £275 https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-Ryzen-5600X-Processor-Cache/dp/B08166SLDF/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=5600X&qid=1638886860&sr=8-2&th=1 5600X (£275) retail with cooler + MSI Tomahawk II MAX B450 (£60) = £335 i11400F (£186) retail with cooler + MSI MAG Mortar B560M (£120) = £306 so for an extra £29 you are getting an overall faster product that also allows you to overclock much higher and get more performance (rather than just maxing out the power limit to run all core since the 11400F is a locked processor) I did say the board for around 130, but that mortar does seem to be pretty decent.

https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/intel-core-i5-11400f-socket-1200-2.6-ghz-rocket-lake-processor-bx8070811400f/version.asp Intel Core i5 11400F £147.97 inc VAT https://www.cclonline.com/product/346488/MAG-B560M-BAZOOKA/Motherboards/MSI-MAG-B560M-BAZOOKA-Intel-Socket-1200-B560-Chipset-MicroATX-Motherboard/MBD3084/ MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA £89.99 inc VAT https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B560M-BAZOOKA https://www.box.co.uk/B560M-AORUS-ELITE-Gigabyte-B560M-AORUS-Elite-Motherboard_3614271.html Gigabyte B560M AORUS Elite £104.99 inc VAT https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B560M-AORUS-ELITE-rev-10 https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-b560m-steel-legend-intel-b560-s-1200-ddr4-pcie-40-sata3-2x-m2-25gbe-usb-32-gen1-micro-atx ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND £114.49 inc VAT https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/B560M%20Steel%20Legend/index.asp https://www.box.co.uk/90MB1780-M0EAY0-ASUS-TUF-GAMING-B560M-PLUS-Motherboard_3597590.html ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS £124.98 inc VAT https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/TUF-Gaming/TUF-GAMING-B560M-PLUS/ .