Loobyluggs:

Corrected that for you.

YEP! They general do not care how the player is affected but, you touch that margin of profit... EAC estimates that a single team of hack and distribute can generate 1.5 million dollars annually. 100s of millions spent world wide in the cheat industry...$150,000 would hardly be much of a hindrance since the costs in the cheat industry have little over head.

SweenJM:

But the courts are the place to decide things that effect reality, not things that have no bearing on reality. I love online gaming, and have for many years.....and yes, we all hate it when some asshat ruins the game. Still, administration and policing of your game and your servers is a job for you, and it is still just a game. Its bad enough that pay to win has become profitable, how about when litigating players and modders becomes profitable......EA will be first in line. I am not trying to advocate for cheating, and I tend to play only on well-administered clan servers (many games not allowing private servers anymore is part of the problem i think, but a seperate issue). I just want the courts to dwell in reality, and i think this borders a bit too closely on making law regarding fantasy. Trainers, mods, etc. Never hurt anyone.......but if we are talking about hurting people, online cheating doesn't hurt people either, just their feelings. It may effect how profitable the game may be to the companies involved (and there may be some grounds for legal action there) but where does it end. When can game companies sue whole groups of people who quit playing a game, thus making them lose money? It sounds crazy now, but lots of things do till they can justify with legal precedent. Maybe far-fetched, maybe not. Rather the courts stay out if it. Either way, honorable men can differ.

Cheating online has a bearing on reality. I'm old and i don't play online games much but back when i was playing Halo 2 seriously many years ago the bracket between level 35 and 50 was full of cheaters. Around 4 games out of 5 at those levels involved cheaters flying around, killing you across the map, running super fast or making the game lag badly for everyone else. Once you reached level 35 there was not much you could do outside of creating a new Xbox Live Account and start from scratch or purposely losing for an entire night to get down to level 20ish and then have to play against guys not good enough until you were back at level 35 and had to repeat the whole process. Preventing someone to play a game is not only hurting his feeling. It's preventing someone else from enjoying a product they paid for. In fact losing to cheaters never ever did hurt my feelings. Why would my feelings be hurt for losing against a bunch of losers not worthy of anything? My feelings are hurt when i lose badly and legitimately to guys far better than me. But even then they are not cause i respect and admire players far better than me. As someone who pay for his games and work 40+ hours a week when i come home and decide to sit in front of the TV or monitor to play a game late at night before going to bed i do so to have fun and let go of work or family related stress and pressure. Someone preventing me to have a fun time by cheating is basically stealing my free time and the money i paid for the game. I consider my free time to be very very very valuable.

I think GTA V is a solid game Cheaters ruin it. This game is a hot bed for cheaters

The Laughing Ma:

Easier to blame the cheat than to blame the lazy arse developer, I know Rcokstar is some small indie developer and that their game GTAO is just some tiny drop in an ocean of games and that their is no way they could possibly afford to plug the holes and bugs in a game listed as the most profitable piece of media ever!

The point here is not about developers working hard/lazily on securing the game. My point is about taking the responsibility for abusing it. Cause someone has cheaper lock on its door, doesn't mean the thief is allowed to bust it and enter. Thief has to be responsible for it. Yes, this is also applies on software and there laws protecting it. And yes, I do agree with others that Publishers only sued cheater developers cause it abused their revenue. Publisher probably doesn't care about players. Cheater developers might of played "Robin Hood" role here, unfortunately it has consequences in our modern capitalistic society.

SweenJM:

I don't care for cheaters, but i feel like the courts are not the place to take care of this. I worry about the precedent it sets. Next, trainers for single player, then all mods in general, then lawsuit because we don't like the way you play this thing you bought from us. You will pay for it, but you won't own it.

__ Absolutely all cheaters say that. Fact.

If they made the game more secure, then there wouldn't be cheats. Lazy coding, can't be bothered attitude and then cry when someone beats their system. Will do anything to get a free slice of cash from people - no matter what it is, hacking, dance moves, or whatever. Every company which is large only cares about the money. What about when you buy a game and you don't even own it? WTF is that about. If I wanted to sell an account of mine - they say that's against their policy and forbid you to do it. Absolute BS. These companies need to be held accountable for the shit they do as well which we don't agree with.

SweenJM:

I see your point as well, and i am not suggesting vigilantism......rather, i suggest taking care of your own mess. If you have a game that is raking in $6 billion dollars profit like gta 5, and you are worried about cheaters, then hire more admins, get better monitoring, and banhammer folks into submission.

That's like saying if your country is full of criminals, hire more officers, install more cameras, and keep putting them into a prison that has no locks (banning only makes someone purchase/steal a game again or spoof their IP), but never ever think about actually fining them for what they do, or get rid of the root problem.

Sixtyfps:

I think GTA V is a solid game Cheaters ruin it. This game is a hot bed for cheaters

I never enjoyed playing the online aspect of the game - it felt sooooo 'grindy' to me, with no impact whatsoever on the server you were connected to. You can't 'control' a city. You can't dictate the 'law' on a server and be a figurative kingpin of a server, with your crew, ready to defend every aspect of the city/server. zero consequences. zero point. Don't like the people on a server; getting pwned too much; finding yourself backed into a corner? Just leave and join an identical immaculate city on another server. The amount of times I've backed someone into a corner after maybe 45 mins of chasing them, and they just leave...waste of time. I can't steal someones car, boat, hideout, base...NOTHING! Total sham. Anyway - the single player experience for GTAV is really cool - just like RDR2, but online? GFY rockstar, srsly, just...GFY and come back once you have made an online experience that has actual REAL consequences for the people who play it, unless of course, you just want to rinse and price gouge the entirety of the internet... If I can't (permanently) destroy (or steal) someone's property that they paid real money for...then there is no 'game'. Does anyone know whether SC is planning the same thing? Wherein, you cannot destroy someone's property or steal it? And if you do, it will just re-spawn somewhere, over a rainbow?

OMFG.... by this logic, then weapon makers should be finned/jailed/executed for each live taken away with a gun they made.. (I'd actually like that but that's not the point here). Remember the charges are copyright infringement, not making a cheating tool or messing with a virtual parallel micro economy designed to harvest money from not-cattle-but-customers.

TieSKey:

OMFG.... by this logic, then weapon makers should be finned/jailed/executed for each live taken away with a gun they made.. (I'd actually like that but that's not the point here).

Apples and oranges. There are no legal precedents for cheat software, there is legal precedents for weapons. That being said, if someone sells an ILLEGAL weapon and someone does an illegal act with it, whoever sold it to them does face consequences. As well, if they sell the gun illegally, regardless if it's a legal gun or not, the seller does face consequences. What's a more fair comparison is: This is like people who sell illegal drugs being held accountable if it kills someone, which is how it is. It's good to know who the cheaters are in this forum though, this article has made that pretty obvious.

I have never cheated in games sounds really sad that cheating is needed to have fun and be a winner, I am really pleased the fight against cheating is happening lets hope more of this happens as gamers who cheat spoil the game for people who just want to play the game as it was intended. Maybe there is a market for a cant play fair cheat addition where nobody gets killed and they all have everything.

I'd seduce someone's wife and make them cheat on their partner, before I'd cheat in a computer game. It means that little to me.

If I ever get a chance to smash any cheater or a cheat-maker, I will not hesitate. And I'll do it lightheartedly. But there is another problem, a huge one I'm afraid - many games become cheaters themselves. Now, to explain what I mean by this, I'll humbly ask all of you to listen to my complaint concerning my grievous experience with the game called "War Thunder" (not that it's the only one in this regard, just the latest of it's kind in my case; as soon as you read this, you'll understand why the company opted for such curious name - GAYjin): The game is mainly intended for those who love participating in "virtual air combats" (and tank combats, much like in a World of tanks). Now, apart from good graphics and good sounds (of the engines, weapons' fire etc.) the crucial element for the game play to be CONVINCING (that is: to make you feel like "being really there") is the successful translation of the "atmosphere" of the REAL battle into the virtual one. And that's exactly where the producer fails from the day number 1, under the pretense of having to do so because of the lack of predefined number of participants in a "map" (a virtual battle ground on the server) e.g. to avoid the "empty slots", these are "emulated" by the so-called BOTS - software generated "players", just like in any offline (single player) combat games. So, basically, players do not only fight against each other, but also against the software ("players" generated by the game itself). And this is where the problem appears: the game (the company that owns it) is using the cunning schemes to undermine/downplay the real players' effectiveness by implementing the deceptive, undocumented features within the "abilities" of the BOTS - the bloody "creatures" are flying better than any aces ever flew and their planes are more resistant to the damages than any plane ever produced in reality etc.. Why the company does so? With only one reason: to suppress the advancement (earning points, hierarchy ranking etc.) of the real (human) players, implicitly persuading them into actually BUYING (purchasing virtual "gold coins" for the REAL $) to compensate ("boost") their own advancement. Practically, the game ITSELF is a CHEATER here, and it directly drives people into thinking what to do in terms of finding "alternative ways" to outwit the treacherous bastards, including the use of a "player-modified" accounts (the cheats). In other words, when discussing the "cheating", it turns out the real problem might not be the isolated programmers/reverse engineers who supply customers now and then, but the game producers themselves.

sverek:

The point here is not about developers working hard/lazily on securing the game. My point is about taking the responsibility for abusing it. Cause someone has cheaper lock on its door, doesn't mean the thief is allowed to bust it and enter. Thief has to be responsible for it. Yes, this is also applies on software and there laws protecting it. And yes, I do agree with others that Publishers only sued cheater developers cause it abused their revenue. Publisher probably doesn't care about players. Cheater developers might of played "Robin Hood" role here, unfortunately it has consequences in our modern capitalistic society.

Perhaps, the issue though is everyone, I mean literally everyone in this thread has jumped on the bandwagon and blamed the guy making the cheat and not a single person has said or even suggested that the lazy developer could have spent a small part of it's vast fortune and tried, just tried a little bit to make the game more secure and opted not too. MOST PROFITABLE PIECE OF MEDIA IN HISTORY yet the game is still rocking about with day one glitches and bugs 4 years down the line, blame the cheater but Rcokstar should be equally blamed for the shambolic state the game is in that allows these guys to do what they do. At what point does it become the responsibility of the developer to take the blame and if this guy can be sued for creating cheats that 'affect their revenue' then what about this guy https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqA4Bpg0OP9XZJGNp448Viw Every day the guy has a new work around that allows people to make money using the game Rcokstar released, in a state Rcokstar said yup that's good to go release that. What about me should they be sueing me? I bought a sharkcard or two in my day, but gave up when I found out what a lazy greedy developer Rcokstar had become and started using dupe glitches such as those highlighted in this guys videos. Should I be getting sued? By Rcokstar logic I am literally taking money out of their pockets and what about when the roles are reversed such as was the case around a year ago when Rcokstar did a ban wave sweep and banned or reset folks money, legit earned money in some cases equal to around £100 or more in real world cash if you bought one of their shark cards. They gave these players no reason other than a generic paste book response, they gave no evideance and their customer support was utterly worthless when it came to resolving this. Rockstar just took what in their eyes was a revenue stream from players so does that mean they should be sued for that?

Aura89:

It's good to know who the cheaters are in this forum though, this article has made that pretty obvious.

Oh oh that's me, I dunno I find it somehow a little bit of a piss take to have to grind (not play, but grind) a game for two or three days just to be able to buy a cookie cutter, poorly implemented, poorly tested, buggy, op vehicle or weapon just to allow me to have even half a chance of keeping up with another player. Oh I also love how if I want to buy a car that costs 2 mill and I have 2 mill turns out I can't just buy the car. I also have to buy the new facility / bunker / MOC / airport / arena / nightclub before hand and then on top of that I then have to buy the garage or facility within there that allows me to then mod the car and then I get to finally buy the vehicle and suddenly that car that would have cost me 2mil to buy now actually costs me 3 times as much. I also love how the price of basics within the game has increased by 2 - 5 times the original price yet the like for like real world cash doesn't buy you 2 - 5 times more in game cash and better yet I love all of that happening within a game that is still rocking about with day one glitches and bugs because it's quicker and easier to sh*t out another five cookie cutter flying rocket bikes than it is to I dunno fix the f*cking broken ar*se catch up or perhaps fix this glitch [youtube=yjzGCWSsJAc] Which I found over a year ago, told Rcokstar about and got a response that it had been elovated to their tech support and the case was closed as resolved despite it still being in the game to this day! So yes I 'cheated' sorry 'glitched' because end of the day I used Rcokstar's game in the state they released the game to make money ad I'll justify that as me showing Rcokstar the same amount of respect they have been showing the GTAO community for the last 3 years.... NONE!

My ugly girlfriend said if I ever cheated on her she would leave me..... Still pondering my options. Edit: in all honesty Modern Warfare 2 got so bad I joined a hacked private server of the game just for the "vote kick" option. Still play it now....best multiplayer game of all time.

People here are arguing whether or not it was the court's position to deal with this in the first place, but I think the bigger deal isn't whether or not they should have but this:

The defendant did not respond to any requests and did not defend himself against the allegations. This omission was assessed by the court as a confession of guilt, as can be seen from the judgment (PDF).

I think the omission of a statement of innocence shouldn't be allowed to be counted as assertion of the opposite.

The Laughing Ma:

Perhaps, the issue though is everyone, I mean literally everyone in this thread has jumped on the bandwagon and blamed the guy making the cheat and not a single person has said or even suggested that the lazy developer could have spent a small part of it's vast fortune and tried, just tried a little bit to make the game more secure and opted not too. MOST PROFITABLE PIECE OF MEDIA IN HISTORY yet the game is still rocking about with day one glitches and bugs 4 years down the line, blame the cheater but Rcokstar should be equally blamed for the shambolic state the game is in that allows these guys to do what they do. At what point does it become the responsibility of the developer to take the blame and if this guy can be sued for creating cheats that 'affect their revenue' then what about this guy https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqA4Bpg0OP9XZJGNp448Viw Every day the guy has a new work around that allows people to make money using the game Rcokstar released, in a state Rcokstar said yup that's good to go release that. What about me should they be sueing me? I bought a sharkcard or two in my day, but gave up when I found out what a lazy greedy developer Rcokstar had become and started using dupe glitches such as those highlighted in this guys videos. Should I be getting sued? By Rcokstar logic I am literally taking money out of their pockets and what about when the roles are reversed such as was the case around a year ago when Rcokstar did a ban wave sweep and banned or reset folks money, legit earned money in some cases equal to around £100 or more in real world cash if you bought one of their shark cards. They gave these players no reason other than a generic paste book response, they gave no evideance and their customer support was utterly worthless when it came to resolving this. Rockstar just took what in their eyes was a revenue stream from players so does that mean they should be sued for that? Oh oh that's me, I dunno I find it somehow a little bit of a piss take to have to grind (not play, but grind) a game for two or three days just to be able to buy a cookie cutter, poorly implemented, poorly tested, buggy, op vehicle or weapon just to allow me to have even half a chance of keeping up with another player. Oh I also love how if I want to buy a car that costs 2 mill and I have 2 mill turns out I can't just buy the car. I also have to buy the new facility / bunker / MOC / airport / arena / nightclub before hand and then on top of that I then have to buy the garage or facility within there that allows me to then mod the car and then I get to finally buy the vehicle and suddenly that car that would have cost me 2mil to buy now actually costs me 3 times as much. I also love how the price of basics within the game has increased by 2 - 5 times the original price yet the like for like real world cash doesn't buy you 2 - 5 times more in game cash and better yet I love all of that happening within a game that is still rocking about with day one glitches and bugs because it's quicker and easier to sh*t out another five cookie cutter flying rocket bikes than it is to I dunno fix the f*cking broken ar*se catch up or perhaps fix this glitch [youtube=yjzGCWSsJAc] Which I found over a year ago, told Rcokstar about and got a response that it had been elovated to their tech support and the case was closed as resolved despite it still being in the game to this day! So yes I 'cheated' sorry 'glitched' because end of the day I used Rcokstar's game in the state they released the game to make money ad I'll justify that as me showing Rcokstar the same amount of respect they have been showing the GTAO community for the last 3 years.... NONE!

Again, that's not the point. You trying too hard.

Aura89:

Apples and oranges. There are no legal precedents for cheat software, there is legal precedents for weapons. That being said, if someone sells an ILLEGAL weapon and someone does an illegal act with it, whoever sold it to them does face consequences. As well, if they sell the gun illegally, regardless if it's a legal gun or not, the seller does face consequences. What's a more fair comparison is: This is like people who sell illegal drugs being held accountable if it kills someone, which is how it is. It's good to know who the cheaters are in this forum though, this article has made that pretty obvious.

Emmm sorry but no. Making "cheats' is not illegal, not in the US, not here not in the moon. The guy was charged for copyright infringement, not even intelectual property but copyright... that means, using assets or lines of code property of R*. The "losing money" is not an argument, and god forbids it will ever be (cuz u know, a competitor makes u lose money, should I sue?), it was deemed as the consequence of the copyright infringement and "cheating" was never even mentioned because it holds absolutely no ground in a court (what is and what is not cheating? who decides?, etc). To sum up, the correct analogy would be: YOU buy a "fake" Colt sight for your pistol which is in infringement of copyright (not even a patent, just copyright) and YOU kill someone, but you want to punish the sight maker for murder (again, in the case of weapons I'd actually like that being true, but it's not).

PhantomGamers:

People here are arguing whether or not it was the court's position to deal with this in the first place, but I think the bigger deal isn't whether or not they should have but this: I think the omission of a statement of innocence shouldn't be allowed to be counted as assertion of the opposite.

Yup, losing by default sounds terrifying.... Even more, R* is playing "local" by suing the guy on their preferred court by invoking the EULA of the game.... but copyright can't be infringed "IN" the game, so even the jurisdiction is weird. Disclaimer: I never ever played GTAV, not even single player, I don't play online shooters and don't really like them. People calling us "cheaters" sound like little kids (sorry actual kids, u are not at fault here)

The Laughing Ma:

LIES

If you take your foot off the accelerator during the air - you lose speed.

Loobyluggs:

If you take your foot off the accelerator during the air - you lose speed.

You know what kinda had enough of your BS mate, welcome to ignore

Again, that's not the point. You trying too hard.

So what is the point? Wave your hands in the air and rejoice at the fact that Rcokstar have 'stopped' a cheat creator? I mean if it fits with the general opinion of the thread I can happily pat Rcokstar on the back for 'being the good guy here'?? What exactly IS the point of the thread because it seems any form of descent or questioning that Rcokstar may have to foot some responsability for making their game so easy to cheat in, doesn't hold well with the general opinion?