Only electricity production is gonna fail soon due to less remaining resources OR they are gonna get rich beyond any measure because of every noob anonymous coiner. Many will be sad or happy, except the morons dreaming digital 0 and 1 riches. Society falls into the void.

Oh, but I disagree! Once this mining craze dies down and people start selling their GPUs, they'll saturate eBay for very low prices. Since you only need 1 GPU with display adapters, you could Crossfire a handful of these GPUs and get yourself a modest gaming rig while saving hundreds of dollars. A couple RX 480s in crossfire is roughly the performance of a GTX 1080. I figure 3x RX 470s would have the performance of a 1080Ti. From what I've seen, most serious miners take good care of their hardware, so there should be no concerns over buying the hardware used. But, if they're smart about it, they'll sell it for a sub-$100 price, making them for a very good buy.

They're still running the cards into the ground even if they take decent care of them.

Only electricity production is gonna fail soon due to less remaining resources OR they are gonna get rich beyond any measure because of every noob anonymous coiner. Many will be sad or happy, except the morons dreaming digital 0 and 1 riches. Society falls into the void.

Or it spurs innovation in HVAC design/fabrication & solar/wind farms and ushers in a new echelon of clean power forever changing humanity for the better. Why is everyone so pessimistic lately? Lol

They're still running the cards into the ground even if they take decent care of them.

How so? The concept of processor lifespan is very hazy. There has rarely been any evidence that intense heat under extensive use has much of an effect on lifespan. I remember seeing a test of a GTX 480 (one of the hottest-running GPUs ever made) that was used regularly for at least 5 years vs a brand new one that still had the plastic wrap over the box. They performed exactly the same. Sure, it wasn't under 24/7 usage, but it also was a LOT more power-hungry than a RX 470.

They're still running the cards into the ground even if they take decent care of them.

My 4yr old reference XFX R9 290, which ran at 90+ Celsius happily mining for 6 months 24/7 says Hola When I put her for sale, I'll describe her as: "In mint condition" :funny:

I do not understand the hate towards miners. In fact everyone should use there cards to mine. Mine for coins,sell coins and get free video card in a couple months,what is so bad about that.

How so? The concept of processor lifespan is very hazy. There has rarely been any evidence that intense heat under extensive use has much of an effect on lifespan. I remember seeing a test of a GTX 480 (one of the hottest-running GPUs ever made) that was used regularly for at least 5 years vs a brand new one that still had the plastic wrap over the box. They performed exactly the same. Sure, it wasn't under 24/7 usage, but it also was a LOT more power-hungry than a RX 470.

Fair point. Do you remember the site that ran the test?

My 4yr old reference XFX R9 290, which ran at 90+ Celsius happily mining for 6 months 24/7 says Hola When I put her for sale, I'll describe her as: "In mint condition" :funny:

Rascal 🤓.

I do not understand the hate towards miners. In fact everyone should use there cards to mine. Mine for coins,sell coins and get free video card in a couple months,what is so bad about that.

It massively inflates the prices of cards and people that want them for their purpose (playing games) get burned.

I need to quit double posting when I mean to edit -_-.

friend of mine is doing this for years he buys a good gaming card let it mine for a year and then sell it for 75-80% of new value as your buying a card with still 1-2 years of warranty. and sells them like hotcakes, and it doesn't seem to matter to anyone that he used it for mining. with the coming flood of second hand cards i already dropped to a more realistic 50% for the coming period. So if you offer 50$ i think you get laughed at yourself. and your a bit naive if you think a shop cares if a card goes to a gamer or a miner or someone that uses it as a paperweight. especially if they guy that will use it as a paperweight is willing to pay 50 bucks more.

Its funny that you think mining damages the card.

I do not understand the hate towards miners. In fact everyone should use there cards to mine. Mine for coins,sell coins and get free video card in a couple months,what is so bad about that.

I don't mind so much people who only have a GPU or two and do crypocurrency mining when their PC would otherwise be idle. What I and many others don't like are the people who buy dozens or even hundreds of GPUs for mining. We hate this for a few reasons: 1. Like mentioned before, it skews the market in many ways, whether that's price gouging, manufacturer priorities, product availability to gamers, and so on. 2. How about getting a real job like the rest of us? 3. If you're going to mindlessly rack up your electric bill (particularly in the summer, where your A/C needs to work harder) why not do something more meaningful and helpful to society, like BOINC?

Do you remember the site that ran the test?

LTT tested it. I could've sworn someone else did too. That being said, my memory of the situation may be slightly skewed, though it ultimately doesn't really change my point that hardware degredation isn't really a thing, when the hardware is used in ideal conditions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44JqNJq-PC0 I'm sure if you took a look around you'd find other people who tested something similar.

I do not understand the hate towards miners. In fact everyone should use there cards to mine. Mine for coins,sell coins and get free video card in a couple months,what is so bad about that.

Living under the bridge during the early most profitable phase, and learning about mining only when the fiesta is pretty much over :wanker:

Its funny that you think mining damages the card.

A card that's been mined on 24/7 for a year is definitely depleted far more than a card that's been gamed on by the average gamer. So yeah, it does "damage" the card - a term you used and not him.

A card that's been mined on 24/7 for a year is definitely depleted far more than a card that's been gamed on by the average gamer. So yeah, it does "damage" the card - a term you used and not him.

No. The damage will only come from using the card out of Spec, ie overclocking it too far/Too hot/.... Its just the same for CPU's. Push it too hard, for too long, out of Spec, and it will fail after time. Over-volting is one sure-fire way to kill the longevity of a card/CPU. Use it within the Specs, and it should run fine 24/7, games or mining. its included in the price, its the warranty/guarantee. badly ventilated cases, weak PSU's etc will kill cards, due to them overheating or shorting etc. Just "using the card 24/7" will not damage it.

No. The damage will only come from using the card out of Spec, ie overclocking it too far/Too hot/.... Its just the same for CPU's. Push it too hard, for too long, out of Spec, and it will fail after time. Over-volting is one sure-fire way to kill the longevity of a card/CPU. Use it within the Specs, and it should run fine 24/7, games or mining. its included in the price, its the warranty/guarantee. badly ventilated cases, weak PSU's etc will kill cards, due to them overheating or shorting etc. Just "using the card 24/7" will not damage it.

Applying a voltage over a silicon substrate accelerates the diffusion of the ions of said substrate. Literally using a card "damages" it. Applying more voltage degrades it faster, perhaps even exponentially faster, but any voltage accelerates diffusion. So a card running at 24/7 for a year will be more depleted or "damaged" then a card running at 4/7 for a year. Which is the point "Olievlekje" was trying to make. Also at no point did he use the word "damage" - he's talking about the natural degradation of the card.

It is the scam of the decade. Whoever designed this knew what they were doing, and probably half of the coins which where initially mined very easy are now sold to all the idiots hoping to get rich, they got their big-ass $$$ and everyone else is now competing for scraps with their massive power hogging rigs. Eventually this entire nonsense will go down in history as one of the most massive waste of technology and energy of the last 100 years. Aliens are probably laughing like crazy looking at us: "Hey, look at them, they invented these miracles of technology (computer chips), and what are they using them for? Calculating quintilions of nothings... At the same time, millions of them are dying of diseases which could be cured by investing that computational power into understanding nature better... Terrible... when are we going to learn??

I'm no miner, and no doubt many of the cryptocurrencies that have popped up after Bitcoin were created specifically to cash in on the boom and will be abandoned sooner or later, however, cryptocurrencies as a technology are here to stay and their role will likely grow in the future as central banks, along with their currencies, begin to lose credibility. All that calculating power goes towards maintaining the the currency network and transaction ledger. Because of this, you cannot counterfeit cryptocurrencies and they remain decentralized enough that no single monetary authority can screw you over the way central banks do to us every day. Aside from the technological immaturity and still comparatively low commercial adoption rate, crytocurrencies are far superior to central bank currencies, unless you're a central banker or one of their cronies, of course.

Someone in university halls, probably doesn't pay an electric bill.

That is basic thievery. Stealing electricity from an institution to gain personal profit. I used to do computational donation for many many years ago, starting with SETI@Home, moved then to Folding@Home and other projects after BOINC appeared: https://boinc.berkeley.edu/ Some might consider what these guys are doing useless as well, but at least it has a SCIENTIFIC BACKGROUND, it searches for something which might benefit humanity. Then out of the blue this Bitcoin insanity appeared and instead of donating computational power to science... everyone started to waste gigantic amounts of electricity... for "profit". Yes, we all hate the banks, I agree with that. But are we better off with these cryptos ? We're simply exchanging finite natural resources - high-end silicon, coal, oil, all the metal in the wind turbines, etc etc... for something completely virtual which has NO MATHEMATICAL FUTURE: For those that do not understand... bitcoins can NEVER BE MINED COMPLETELY (the difficulty raises exponentially to values impossible to reach). But, TRANSACTIONS REQUIRE MINING to complete!!! If new coin is not created (because it's impossibly hard, near the end), no transactions can happen. Result ? All those wallets which "theoretically" contain billions of $ of "bitcoins" suddenly become virtual paperweights, as YOU CANNOT USE THEM FOR ANYTHING. And I believe this was designed on purpose. And I'm quite sure the large wallet holders know precisely when it's the moment to sell everything and transform them into classic currency, which will still work, as it's not based on such absurd concept...

For those that do not understand... bitcoins can NEVER BE MINED COMPLETELY (the difficulty raises exponentially to values impossible to reach).

Wrong. The difficulty rises, but so does network hashrate. Difficulty adjusts itself every 2016 blocks in order to keep the block generation at 10 minutes.

But, TRANSACTIONS REQUIRE MINING to complete!!! If new coin is not created (because it's impossibly hard, near the end), no transactions can happen. Result ? All those wallets which "theoretically" contain billions of $ of "bitcoins" suddenly become virtual paperweights, as YOU CANNOT USE THEM FOR ANYTHING. And I believe this was designed on purpose. And I'm quite sure the large wallet holders know precisely when it's the moment to sell everything and transform them into classic currency, which will still work, as it's not based on such absurd concept...

Wrong again 🙂 No coin generation might occur due to rounding of block halving ending in zero. Not due to difficulty. And even of there are no rewards for block solving, the transaction rewards will be there and increasingly so. [spoiler] Because the number of bitcoins created each time a user discovers a new block - the block reward - is halved based on a fixed interval of blocks, and the time it takes on average to discover a block can vary based on mining power and the network difficulty, the exact time when the block reward is halved can vary as well. Consequently, the time the last Bitcoin will be created will also vary, and is subject to speculation based on assumptions. If the mining power had remained constant since the first Bitcoin was mined, the last Bitcoin would have been mined somewhere near October 8th, 2140. Due to the mining power having increased overall over time, as of block 367,500 - assuming mining power remained constant from that block forward - the last Bitcoin will be mined on May 7th, 2140. As it is very difficult to predict how mining power will evolve into the future - i.e. whether technological progress will continue to make hardware faster or whether mining will hit a a technological wall; or whether or not faster methods of SHA2 calculation will be discovered - putting an exact date or even year on this event is difficult. The total number of bitcoins, as mentioned earlier, has an asymptote at 21 million, due to a technical limitation in the data structure of the blockchain - specifically the integer storage type of the transaction output, this exact value would have been 20,999,999.9769 bitcoin. Should this technical limitation be adjusted by changing the width of the field, the total number will still only approach or be a maximum of 21 million.[/spoiler]

crypto is less of a scam than gold or usd

That is basic thievery. Stealing electricity from an institution to gain personal profit. I used to do computational donation for many many years ago, starting with SETI@Home, moved then to Folding@Home and other projects after BOINC appeared: https://boinc.berkeley.edu/ Some might consider what these guys are doing useless as well, but at least it has a SCIENTIFIC BACKGROUND, it searches for something which might benefit humanity. Then out of the blue this Bitcoin insanity appeared and instead of donating computational power to science... everyone started to waste gigantic amounts of electricity... for "profit". Yes, we all hate the banks, I agree with that. But are we better off with these cryptos ? We're simply exchanging finite natural resources - high-end silicon, coal, oil, all the metal in the wind turbines, etc etc... for something completely virtual which has NO MATHEMATICAL FUTURE: For those that do not understand... bitcoins can NEVER BE MINED COMPLETELY (the difficulty raises exponentially to values impossible to reach). But, TRANSACTIONS REQUIRE MINING to complete!!! If new coin is not created (because it's impossibly hard, near the end), no transactions can happen. Result ? All those wallets which "theoretically" contain billions of $ of "bitcoins" suddenly become virtual paperweights, as YOU CANNOT USE THEM FOR ANYTHING. And I believe this was designed on purpose. And I'm quite sure the large wallet holders know precisely when it's the moment to sell everything and transform them into classic currency, which will still work, as it's not based on such absurd concept...

I currently run BOINC on my computers, as I believe strongly in science and want to support scientific research. However, I also think cryptocurrencies have value, if only to provide an alternative to the debt-as-money system that private corporations (banks) created for their own benefit. IMO, both of these activities are genuine use cases for GPUs, and provide more benefit to humanity than something like gaming (I'm a gamer as well, but it is largely a frivolous activity, especially when compared to said computing activities). And if you want to talk about absurd concepts, then look no further than fractional-reserve banking (which is the basis for banking all over the world), where the act of lending creates new money and where a bank's IOU counts as money (banks literally lend something that they do not have). As for the topic, the mining cards really don't look any better than the RX 400 and 500 series cards for ETH mining, although their existence may reduce the demand for gaming videocards. I would say that it's a positive development - hopefully these new mining cards (along with the Nvidia variants) will be provided in sufficient numbers to take the pressure off consumer gaming cards.

Wonder if a mining card could be used for Crossfire. 2nd card doesn't need outputs anyways.